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  • Obamanomics

    I find it rather ironic that the Punahou elite that were probably cheering their asses off are now facing steep tax increases because of their fellow Buff and Blue alum.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35185592...sonal_finance/

    Obama proposes tax hikes in budget
    Wealthy, businesses would pay about $1 trillion more
    Pablo Martinez Monsivais / AP
    updated 11:05 a.m. HT, Mon., Feb. 1, 2010

    WASHINGTON - While President Barack Obama is proposing to cut some taxes for companies that hire workers, his budget would raise a host of other taxes on businesses and wealthy individuals.

    The budget proposal released Monday would extend Obama's signature Making Work Pay tax credit — $400 for individuals, $800 for a couple filing jointly — through 2011. But it would also impose nearly $1 trillion in higher taxes on couples making more than $250,000 and individuals making more than $200,000 by not renewing tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush. Obama would extend Bush-era tax cuts for families and individuals making less.

    Obama revived numerous proposals for business tax increases that didn't fare well in Congress last year, including a scaled-down plan to increase taxes on U.S. companies with major overseas operations, and plans to increase taxes on oil and gas companies.

    Congressional Democrats praised most of Obama's initiatives, but their lukewarm response to some of the tax increases suggests a tough fight for the administration. Obama's proposal to increase taxes on international businesses would be better addressed as part of a package overhauling the entire tax system, said Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the tax-writing Finance Committee.

    Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said, "This budget features too many new taxes, too much new spending and too much new debt."

    The budget accounts for a $33 billion tax cut that Obama wants Congress to include in a new jobs bill. It would give companies a $5,000 tax credit for each new worker they hire in 2010. Businesses that increase wages or hours for their current workers in 2010 would be reimbursed for the extra Social Security payroll taxes they would pay.

    The tax increases on wealthy families would fulfill a campaign pledge by Obama, who has blamed Bush's tax cuts and Medicare prescription drug program for swelling the government's debt by $7.5 trillion.

    "While we extend middle-class tax cuts in this budget, we will not continue costly tax cuts for oil companies, investment fund managers and those making over $250,000 a year," Obama said. "We just can't afford it."

    Obama would permanently expand the Earned Income Tax Credit, a popular anti-poverty program, for low-income families with three or more children, at a cost of $15 billion over the next decade. However, he would save $760 million by eliminating advanced payments of the credit, a little-used aspect of the program in which families receive payments throughout the year instead of a lump sum at tax time.

    "I am a big supporter of the Earned Income Tax Credit," Obama said. "The problem is 80 percent of the people who got this advance didn't comply with one or more of the program's requirements."

    The Making Work Pay tax credit provides families with up to $800 a year and individuals up to $400 a year through small increases in their weekly pay. Extending the tax credit through 2011 would save them $61 billion.

    Some of Obama's other tax proposals would:

    — Raise the top two income tax rates for individuals, from 33 percent and 35 percent, to 36 percent and 39.6 percent, respectively. Unless Congress intervenes, those rates will rise next Jan. 1 when Bush's tax cuts expire. That government would reap $365 billion over the next decade.

    — Limit the itemized tax deductions high earners can claim for charitable donations, mortgage interest and state and local taxes, raising about $210 billion for the next decade.

    — Increase the top capital gains tax rate from 15 percent to 20 percent for families making more than $250,000 a year and individuals making more than $200,000. The proposal would raise about $105 billion.

    — Make the research and experimentation tax credit permanent, saving businesses about $83 billion over the next decade.

    — Extend a provision allowing businesses buying equipment such as computers to speed up depreciation through 2010, saving them $20 billion over the next decade.

    — Eliminate capital gains taxes on the sale of some small business stocks, as long as they are held for at least five years, saving taxpayers $8 billion over the next decade.

    — Impose a "financial crisis responsibility fee" on large financial institutions, raising $90 billion over the next decade.

    — Repeal a widely ignored law that taxes the personal use of company-issued cell phones like other fringe benefits, saving taxpayers $2.8 billion over 10 years.

    — Restrict the ability of international companies to defer taxes on profits made overseas, raising about $26 billion over the next decade.

    — Impose a total of about $39 billion in tax increases on oil, gas and coal companies over the next decade.

    — Change the way profits made by investment fund managers are taxed, raising an additional $24 billion over the next decade.
    to be honest, i think some of these ideas have merit. investment fund mangers, trading derivatives and creating nothing of value but making choke money bothers me. tax them hard barry.

    taxes on oil, gas and coal. meh, i'm ok with it as long as the money is earmarked for "green" alternative energy resources. yeh shaddap. i can barely type around this tree trunk i'm hugging.

    big banks. fahk them. they did create a mess. they should get hit harder for the mess they've caused. if they didn't cause the mess then, well, uh... fahk it. they probably did cause a lot of this mess.

    tax credits for accelerated depreciation and r&d is good. so is the limit on interest deduction on high net worth folks. yeh if you want a freaking huge house... buy it cash. don't expect everyone else to underwrite your huge ego. not talking mcmansions but the huge 2mil+ ones.

    edit: now don't get me wrong. i don't want all this money to go as handouts to folks who are lazy and unproductive. help those who are truly needy. pay down our deficit and keep our military, scientific edge and find new energy sources that will maintain our status as the preeminent leader in global politics. the usa is the best thing that has ever happened to the global civilization and humanity.
    Last edited by 808shooter; February 1, 2010, 10:25 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Obamanomics

    Originally posted by 808shooter View Post
    I find it rather ironic that the Punahou elite that were probably cheering their asses off are now facing steep tax increases because of their fellow Buff and Blue alum.



    to be honest, i think some of these ideas have merit. investment fund mangers, trading derivatives and creating nothing of value but making choke money bothers me. tax them hard barry.

    taxes on oil, gas and coal. meh, i'm ok with it as long as the money is earmarked for "green" alternative energy resources. yeh shaddap. i can barely type around this tree trunk i'm hugging.

    big banks. fahk them. they did create a mess. they should get hit harder for the mess they've caused. if they didn't cause the mess then, well, uh... fahk it. they probably did cause a lot of this mess.

    tax credits for accelerated depreciation and r&d is good. so is the limit on interest deduction on high net worth folks. yeh if you want a freaking huge house... buy it cash. don't expect everyone else to underwrite your huge ego. not talking mcmansions but the huge 2mil+ ones.

    edit: now don't get me wrong. i don't want all this money to go as handouts to folks who are lazy and unproductive. help those who are truly needy. pay down our deficit and keep our military, scientific edge and find new energy sources that will maintain our status as the preeminent leader in global politics. the usa is the best thing that has ever happened to the global civilization and humanity.
    say wha???
    Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


    flickr

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Obamanomics

      Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
      say wha???
      brah you heard me. the usa has done more than any other civilization to improve the general well being of humanity and raise the standard of living, than any other civilization. ever.

      the peace we've maintained over the last four generations has brought more people out of poverty than ever before. created a middle class in more countries than you can name. the only folks that came close were the british.

      all the rest is minah details.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Obamanomics

        Originally posted by 808shooter View Post
        brah you heard me. the usa has done more than any other civilization to improve the general well being of humanity and raise the standard of living, than any other civilization. ever..
        Depends on what your definition of is, is
        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Obamanomics

          Yes, the USA doesn't even qualify as a civilization. You can call it a society, a country, a governmental organization or a group of huddled masses, but NOT a civilization. Calling the USA a civilization is like calling Iceland a civilization.
          Last edited by salmoned; February 3, 2010, 07:24 PM.
          May I always be found beneath your contempt.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Obamanomics

            Originally posted by salmoned View Post
            Yes, the USA doesn't even qualify as a civilization. You can call it a society, a country, a governmental organization or a group of huddled masses, but NOT a civilization. Calling the USA a civilization is like calling Iceland a civilization.
            Ok Mr Magoo. If you want to take a myopic look at the world and equate the USA to Iceland, then yeah YOU should use the noun country. I refer to the good ole US of A as a civilization because I used to play a lot of Sid Meier and…

            When I refer to the USA as a civilization, I am referring the current industrialized, first world democracies of the world that have come to dominate the globe over a rise to ascendancy that has taken place over the last 200 years.

            How do you define a civilization? I look at preeminence in the following areas. We dominate them all. More so than almost any other civilization on a global scale than the world has ever seen.

            Politics – we started and maintained the first modern democracy over 200+ years ago and set the example of the shining city on the hill for all around the world to aspire to.

            Economics – the US economy is the most dynamic and largest economic engine in the world. Sure China has more potential, but who has been pulling the heavy load over the last 50 years. Lots have made admirable progress, the Japanese phoenix like rise after WW2 and the asian tigers, etc but none can keep close.

            Military – The USA stands apart as the dominant hegemon with the ability to wage wars on multiple fronts, the ability to project power across the world like almost no other empire in history save maybe Brittania. And our ability to dominate any single enemy and end mankind as we know it are all unmatched and unthinkable military options up till this point in history.

            Technology – our leadership in all areas of science, innovation and technology lead all other nations of the world combined. Atomic energy, production line, the internet, personal computers, electricity, the telephone, television, automobile, man on the moon, toilet paper :-) You can’t name all the shit we’re responsible for.

            Culture. We define culture around the world today. Blue jeans, rock and roll, American music, tv and movies have cemented our role as leader in even the area of culture.

            When a “country”, society, entity defines generations and shapes the world like we have, I think we qualify as a CIVILIZATION.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Obamanomics

              Originally posted by 808shooter View Post
              Ok Mr Magoo. If you want to take a myopic look at the world and equate the USA to Iceland, then yeah YOU should use the noun country. I refer to the good ole US of A as a civilization because I used to play a lot of Sid Meier and…

              When I refer to the USA as a civilization, I am referring the current industrialized, first world democracies of the world that have come to dominate the globe over a rise to ascendancy that has taken place over the last 200 years.

              How do you define a civilization? I look at preeminence in the following areas. We dominate them all. More so than almost any other civilization on a global scale than the world has ever seen.

              Politics – we started and maintained the first modern democracy over 200+ years ago and set the example of the shining city on the hill for all around the world to aspire to.

              Economics – the US economy is the most dynamic and largest economic engine in the world. Sure China has more potential, but who has been pulling the heavy load over the last 50 years. Lots have made admirable progress, the Japanese phoenix like rise after WW2 and the asian tigers, etc but none can keep close.

              Military – The USA stands apart as the dominant hegemon with the ability to wage wars on multiple fronts, the ability to project power across the world like almost no other empire in history save maybe Brittania. And our ability to dominate any single enemy and end mankind as we know it are all unmatched and unthinkable military options up till this point in history.

              Technologyour leadership in all areas of science, innovation and technology lead all other nations of the world combined. Atomic energy, production line, the internet, personal computers, electricity, the telephone, television, automobile, man on the moon, toilet paper :-) You can’t name all the shit we’re responsible for.

              Culture. We define culture around the world today. Blue jeans, rock and roll, American music, tv and movies have cemented our role as leader in even the area of culture.

              When a “country”, society, entity defines generations and shapes the world like we have, I think we qualify as a CIVILIZATION.
              What I have bolded are things that cannot be claimed as truly American in origin. How much research from multinational teams contributed to all that technology that you claim is "American?"

              Rock & roll was born out of the blues, which was born out of Black spirituals, which was born out of African music.

              But I digress.
              Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


              flickr

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Obamanomics

                Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                What I have bolded are things that cannot be claimed as truly American in origin. How much research from multinational teams contributed to all that technology that you claim is "American?"

                Rock & roll was born out of the blues, which was born out of Black spirituals, which was born out of African music.

                But I digress.
                Mike, I see what you're trying to do here and poke holes in my post.

                No chance.

                You want to mince fine hairs on a mite's ass? Maybe all of the bolded are not 100% American advancements and some could be work based upon the work of others but it's our society and freedom of speech, ideals and most importantly protection of intellectual capital that allowed these things to happen. yeah and we didn't invent the code of law either but all of civilization is advancements made on the shoulders of others.

                we're all the progeny of the monkeys a few million years back but that don't mean we can't take credit for pr0n, Big Macs and Superbowl Sunday's.

                hey and by the way, no offense to my biting language and style. i'm just groucy and feeling obtuse. shaka brah.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Say what?!

                  Originally posted by salmoned View Post
                  Yes, the USA doesn't even qualify as a civilization. You can call it a society, a country, a governmental organization or a group of huddled masses, but NOT a civilization. Calling the USA a civilization is like calling Iceland a civilization.
                  Originally posted by 808shooter View Post
                  Ok Mr Magoo. If you want to take a myopic look at the world and equate the USA to Iceland, then yeah YOU should use the noun country. I refer to the good ole US of A as a civilization because I used to play a lot of Sid Meier and…

                  When I refer to the USA as a civilization, I am referring (to) the current industrialized, first world democracies of the world that have come to dominate the globe over a rise to ascendancy that has taken place over the last 200 years.
                  Are you serious?! First of all, I also played a lot of Sid Meier's Civilization™, so much so, that I have actually completed the game by both by destroying all other societies as well as reaching another planet in the same game. I still agree with salmoned and Mike Lowery that you have no clue what the term ‘civ·i·li·za·tion’ means.

                  I had a good belly-laugh over your absurd equation of a democratic country with civilization. The U.S. is just one of many democracies within Western Civilization. There are also countries that are not democratic at all, but would still fall within the Western Civilization umbrella. Further, there are countries past and present, with the word “Democratic” in their name, that are some of the most savage, uncivilized, genocidal nations in modern history.

                  I’m not even going to address the impact our country has had on the various tribes and cultures (many which no longer exist) within its short and violent existence.

                  We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                  — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                  USA TODAY, page 2A
                  11 March 1993

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                  • #10
                    Re: Obamanomics

                    three letters.

                    R -> C -> P

                    read, comprehend, post.

                    - and i don't think lowery disagrees with me. just making trouble with a few of my facts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Obamanomics

                      It's funny 808's use of the word "civilization" is being criticized when many of you here are having trouble being civil, period!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Obamanomics

                        lets get back to the thread topic, "Obamanomics",which is slowly starting to show a turn around. Unless you're a die hard GOP member how can it be denied? I get a laugh how every night FoxNews talks about the rise of the Tea Party to oppose high taxes & basically "Obamanomics". Is that really a rise when your rally is less than 5000 people, and guys like FOX NEws must lie about crowd numbers? Well this year the middle class got the biggest tax cut in over 10 years or more! Where do these "Tea Baggers",get their info,...FOXNews? Besides, a few nights ago the so'called tea party was exposed. It wasn't started by no grass root org either! Come to find out the Tea Party was started by a group of GOP members too!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Obamanomics

                          Beachboy, you're right on. The economy does seem to be recovering.

                          The last jobs report wasn't as good as expected but the business climate does seem better.

                          I'd like to see how the economy reacts when the Fed stops it's totally shibai practice of issuing treasuries and then buying them right back on the open market to keep long term rates down.

                          We did have a large tax break this year but weather that continues remains to be seen. I've read some things about Romneycare and Obamacare that make me optimistic but we'll see.

                          If I hear about the VAT being implemented, I'm going to say that would be a terrible development.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Obamanomics

                            Originally posted by 808shooter View Post
                            If I hear about the VAT being implemented, I'm going to say that would be a terrible development.
                            I'm not so sure. One idea that is being floated is that the US introduce a VAT and eliminate the income tax. That way, you are taxed on consumption and not on income. Some argue that a VAT tax would be "regressive" taxing the poor at higher percentage than the wealthy. I'm not so sure, that depends on a lot of factors.

                            FWIW, Mexico has both an income tax (which the wealthy rarely pay) and a 16% VAT on everything.
                            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Obamanomics

                              Originally posted by matapule View Post
                              One idea that is being floated is that the US introduce a VAT and eliminate the income tax. That way, you are taxed on consumption and not on income.
                              Legally, though, it is questionable whether the income tax is even a legal tax. The U.S. Constitution prohibits a “direct tax.” A little bit of history: on April 8, 1895, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Pollock vs. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Company, that the income tax was unconstitutional. In order to get around this devastating ruling, Congress passed the 16th amendment, which allows the Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states or basing it on Census results. Thus, the income tax was now exempt. However, two-thirds of the states needed to ratify this amendment for it to become law. Evidence uncovered by former FBI agent William J. Benson reveal that only 27 states properly ratified it, which calls into question whether or not the American taxpayers have been hoodwinked.

                              We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                              — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                              USA TODAY, page 2A
                              11 March 1993

                              Comment

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