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Thread: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

  1. #51

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Quote Originally Posted by zff View Post
    I'm just curious as to what's causing it. I'm not worried about exposure to magnetic fields. I work around electronic equipment all day long and it hasn't affected me. I work around electronic equipment all day long and it hasn't affected me.
    I think it's a legitimate concern. I mean, our bodies produce magnetic fields. Mess with that and who knows? Maybe you'll start hating donuts and go back to wearing bell bottoms.

  2. #52
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    Default Just for the record:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
    I think it's a legitimate concern. I mean, our bodies produce magnetic fields. Mess with that and who knows? Maybe you'll start hating donuts and go back to wearing bell bottoms.
    I'm just curious as to what's causing it. I'm not worried about exposure to magnetic fields. I work around electronic equipment all day long and it hasn't affected me. I work around electronic equipment all day long and it hasn't affected me. I'm just curious as to what's causing it!
    My boss says: "Magnetic fields are GOOD for you!" I'm just curious as to what's causing it. I'm not worried about exposure to magnetic fields.

    OK, bob, maybe YOUR body produces magnetic fields.... But as for us NORMAL folk.... we just do electro-static!

    Bell-bottoms let the excess energy drain off without 'Zap-zaps.'

    kKkKkKkkKKKkkk!

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    Last edited by Kaonohi; April 4th, 2010 at 07:43 PM. Reason: bbbbbbob, bbbbbbob
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  3. #53
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    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Here is the video of the compass movement while driving.

    http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/z...inaHide003.flv
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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  4. #54
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    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    I tried the H3 anomaly out yesterday afternoon and again that evening. I used a magnetic 'map compass', you know, the flat kind that boy scouts use, and sure enough, town side of the tunnel, the needle went every which way! On the way back, the effect was less vigorous, but still very obvious. What is going on around there?!
    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    I'm just going to take a guess here, but steel girders or steel framework can certainly mess with compasses. The buildings on my campus are all steel framework and it makes doing any comprehensive experiment useless. I can walk around the science building with a compass and watch the needle spin around the same way you are describing.

    I'll bet that if you contact any physicist at UH, they'd jump at the chance to investigate - just for the cool factor

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    They probably would, but it's kind of cool keeping it between us, isn't it? Like a big HT super-secret.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


  7. #57
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    Post Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Quote Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
    I'll bet that if you contact any physicist at UH, they'd jump at the chance to investigate - just for the cool factor
    I sent an email to the head of the physics department at UH, (see response below)
    it was passed on to "colleagues," but I've heard nothing more.

    (Personal data removed for privacy concerns)
    I am not sure what is causing your car compass to spin and reverse direction. However, compass is very sensitive to even minute magnetic field and/or electrical current. There may be magnetic materials in the freeway or electrical current nearby (??).
    Have you driven through the H3 again? Does the effect occur again?
    I will ask my colleagues if they have any idea.

    Professor of Physics
    University of Hawaii
    2505 Correa Road
    Honolulu, Hawaii 96822
    I answered the questions

    Thank you for your reply.

    To answer your questions:
    I have been monitoring this anomaly for over three months, since I installed a compass in my car and noticed the aberrant behavior in my trip through Halawa valley.

    The effect seems to be variable, stronger on some days and weaker on others.

    I have queried DOT and Highway Dept., and they deny knowledge.

    Certainly there is electrical current for freeway streetlights, there are several antennas installed just outside the tunnel, but this is at both ends, and the anomaly only occurs in both directional lanes only on the Western end.

    Overhead transmission lines do cross the valley at some points, but there seems to be no difference in the effect when these are close or far.

    Monday when I drove through the effect was there, but weak. The Friday before that the effect was very strong.
    The Monday before that, a friend claimed the effect was nonexistent. The following day it was quite evident. There may be differences dependent on weather - I'll try to track that - or it may be a system used by the Highway Dept. (magnetic car counting?) that is switched on or off.

    On the Friday when the accident occurred in the Eastbound tunnel we examined the Westbound lane on foot (which requires special permission, which we didn't have), and the 180 degree reversal was strong, and consistent, but ONLY above the roadbed. When the compass was held over the retaining barriers, or over the space above the valley floor, it normalized.

    So far we are leaning toward some electromagnetic effect in the roadbed, relatively weak. Some people have proposed accidentally magnetized rebar in the concrete, but I don't know how that fits with the variation.

    We appreciate any and all assistance or even ideas you can provide. We are doing this investigation totally on our own time and with our own finances, in the public interest. If the university cares to provide research student assistance and proper equipment, it would be welcome, and would be credited in any subsequent publication.

    I travel through the area almost daily, and monitor the anomaly casually (strong/weak/etc.). Though I do not keep extensive daily data. Driving and writing at 65 mph is... dangerous.

    Please direct any future contact to me. I am sharing correspondence with a select group, including the USGS, until this issue had been determined as to cause, danger or otherwise.
    and heard no more
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  8. #58

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    I've observed this particluar anomaly on H3 myself, but I don't normally drive around with a readily observable compass. For all I know, it's not that unusual.

    It seems the proper scientific thing to do is to see if you experience the same magnetic anomalies anywhere else; driving under high power lines, near a power plant, next to a TV/radio transmitter, around the airport, etc. Then, of course, you'd have to at least informally document that.

    Since your compass is easily visible, I imagine if this anomaly also occured somewhere else, you'd have noticed it by now and posted about it. It doesn't sound like you mention that in your letters, though. I think many scientists would assume since you just got a new compass, you're only now noticing something that's not that uncommon.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    H-3, Zff. Focus!
    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

  10. #60

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Quote Originally Posted by turtlegirl View Post
    H-3, Zff. Focus!
    Huh?

    What I was trying to say is it would be helpful if we knew of other locations where this happens.

    If it turns out to be a common occurence, maybe it's not something to be too worried about. Just add it to the list of other common everyday concerns that could range from overexposure to the sun to the number of rat droppings in canned food. That is, something not any more alarming than the other everyday hazards of life.

    Besides, if this does happen elsewhere, knowing those locations might help figure out why it's happening on H3.

  11. #61
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    Talking Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Quote Originally Posted by zff View Post
    What I was trying to say is it would be helpful if we knew of other locations where this happens.
    OK HTer's, buy car compasses, place them where they are visible while driving, and report in!

    A good place is in the corner of the windshield and dashboard.

    We have had already a report of an exit ramp at the airport showing some anomalies.

    I have seen minor fluctuations elsewhere, but NOTHING like H-3's 180 reversal and uncontrolled spinning.

    K?
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  12. #62

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    I know this is a old thread, but since you brought up the subject in the SA thread, I think there's likely a simple explanation.

    The compass used in smartphones is a flux gate compass. They work on AC magnetic fields.

    It's not unusual for roadways to have induction loops to sense traffic. Most commonly used to trigger traffic lights, but also used to sense traffic flow. Given that H-3 has it's own traffic office, it wouldn't surprise me to know that the highway has such sensors - which also work on AC magnetic field. If they're just the right frequency, they could well confuse a flux gate compass.

    To scientifically test this, you need a mechanical compass, as well as investigating if the thing only affects certain brands/models of compasses (since I'd guess that different compasses could well work on different frequencies.).

    As for the sign posted up thread, depending on where it's located, it may be nothing more then warning you that you're getting too close to a microwave link. Perhaps a cell phone tower.

  13. #63
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    Unhappy Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Quote Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    As for the sign posted up thread, depending on where it's located, it may be nothing more then warning you that you're getting too close to a microwave link. Perhaps a cell phone tower.
    Indeed,there is a cellphone tower there. Bzzzzzt! Microwaved Kaonohi!

    However, all state agencies have not only denied the effect, refused to investigate it, they also seem ignorant of what you describe as common.

    The Star-Advertiser has so far denied publication of the effect, as far as I know.

    What's to hide? Perhaps the ignorance of the State of Hawaii....
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  14. #64

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    GeckoGeek, I seem to remember someone here observed this magnetic anomaly on a compass like this:



    ..and posted up a video. I wish I could find the link.

    In fact, I thought it was Kaonohi who posted up the video. Kaonohi?

  15. #65

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    I recall from memory that a system of broadcasting radio via FM and AM was installed in the tunnels to warn drivers about dangerous road hazards.This system will confuse both a compass or GPS device.

  16. #66

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    The SA isn't sitting on the story. We just can't get an cogent explanation out of anyone, and the state refuses to allow access to do our own testing. I may simply spin it out as a "mystery" however.
    Burl Burlingame
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  17. #67

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    BTW, the entrance ramps to Honolulu Airport also have wild magnetic swings.
    Burl Burlingame
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  18. #68

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Quote Originally Posted by lensperson View Post
    I recall from memory that a system of broadcasting radio via FM and AM was installed in the tunnels to warn drivers about dangerous road hazards.This system will confuse both a compass or GPS device.
    I don't know why a broadcast system would confuse a compass - especially a mechanical one.

  19. #69

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Quote Originally Posted by lensperson View Post
    I recall from memory that a system of broadcasting radio via FM and AM was installed in the tunnels to warn drivers about dangerous road hazards.This system will confuse both a compass or GPS device.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    I don't know why a broadcast system would confuse a compass - especially a mechanical one.
    I was wondering that as well. Wouldn't that suggest that all broadcast AM & FM radio transmitters would adversely affect compasses & GPS devices? That would be a major problem worldwide.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    I think somebody stole the grounding copper wire from the confunctionator again. Damned those copper thieves!
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

  21. #71

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    The H-3 tunnel goes right through a mountain with large amounts of iron oxides (hence the red soil color) which may influence compass readings. GPS will certainly be hampered while operating in tunnels. The Hawaii road builders installed a radio transmitter in the H-3 tunnel to advise motorists of hazards.The transmitter used a form of phase modulation that the car radios of the time could hear.

  22. #72
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    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Quote Originally Posted by zff View Post
    ..and posted up a video. I wish I could find the link.

    In fact, I thought it was Kaonohi who posted up the video. Kaonohi?
    Hmmmm, I don't recall posting a video, just this thread. I've been through a couple computer crashes since then, and may have forgotten.


    Oh, yeAH, just go back to post # 53 in this thread.
    Last edited by Kaonohi; September 8th, 2011 at 05:51 PM.
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  23. #73
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    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    It also occurred to me that the fans, lighting, etc., associated with the tunnels are likely attached to the roadbed, and likely on the leeward end.

    This can explain the deflection, but not the variation.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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  24. #74

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    The antenna in the tunnel was coaxial cable that was slotted every so often to allow the broadcast to "leak out" of the antenna..The slotted aperture antenna structure is now in wide use.As far as anomalous magnetic readings go, they may well exist.

  25. #75

    Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

    Apparently, there are magnetic anomalies in Cappadocia Turkey that are attributed to volcanic activity. It's possible the causes here are similar. In this case they seem to be heavily localized in one area of the H-3, so I think any questions about this phenomena are best submitted to one well versed in geophysics.
    Last edited by Vanguard; September 9th, 2011 at 07:05 AM.

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