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Thread: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

  1. #76

    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    From what I've been told the pressure on the subduction plate off Washington/Oregon has been building up for way too long!

    The Kwakiutl legend of the "Thunderbird" is said to be based on NW coast earthquakes. Hope you live above 200 ft elevation, Leo, cause sooner or later (likely sooner, since the plate has been moving), you won't have to watch tsunamis on TV.

    Caring for you safety,

    K
    Yeah, we are LONG overdue for the big one. I'm on the 4th floor - but the street elevation is probably around 150' in my hood. Our building survived the 6.8 2001 Nisqually quake in good shape, but that one was just a knock at the door compared to what will happen here someday.

    Maybe I'll be living on O`ahu by then.

  2. #77

    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    You make a very valid point, FM. But let me ask you this...Does the owner have the ability to adjust, at will, the price on the pumps? I ask, because your point about being understaffed during an unforeseen emergency makes sense. So, if the pump price can be changed within a reasonable amount of time might it not have behooved the owner to go all "self serve", drop the full serve pump prices, cover the full serve lane sign with a hand written self serve sign and let all customers take care of themselves? I don't know the answer to this which is why I'm asking the question.
    The owner no doubt would be able to change the price. However,....

    I'm wondering if suddenly changing the full-serve to a self-serve lane would create more inconvienience/confusion, especially for the customers who came to that particular 76 station because they needed the full-service. (Full-serve stations are getting rare. Does any other station in Maili provide full-service?) Sometimes, you have old people who like to go through full service because it's hard for them to bend down and check the pressure on their tires. And of course, you have those folks who can't tell the difference between their brake reservoir and the power steering pump. And yet, they hear a strange noise or see some warning lights on the instrument panel, and they don't know what to do.

    I guess if you're going to have crybabies like Lee complain about getting "ripped off," in the future, the station owner might make the decision to suspend full-service and only pump gas in an emergency. But I just think it's a shame for a station to suddenly not give full-service, at a time when it might be most appreciated and vital. Doing so amounts to pacifying the loud minority who weren't paying attention and blaming others for their mistake. What about the majority of customers who wanted and needed the full-service at that critical time?

    If this was 40 years ago, this wouldn't even be an issue. A guy fills up at the wrong pump due to his own carelessness.... then everyone would say that the guy screwed up for ignoring the signs. And that would be that. But in a day and age where judges will give multi-million dollar awards to people for burning themselves with coffee from a styrafoam cup that didn't say "Hot!" it seems like people with no common sense and self-responsibility are quick to blame others and if they can, would perversely try to exploit the situation for their own gain.

    Sad!
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; March 2nd, 2010 at 03:52 PM.

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    The owner no doubt would be able to change the price. However,....

    I'm wondering if suddenly changing the full-serve to a self-serve lane would create more inconvienience/confusion, especially for the customers who came to that particular 76 station because they needed the full-service.
    Just thinking out loud here...
    My guess is the majority of that station's customers are locals; loyal locals...esp. at 4am! Not a lot of mainland tourists roaming the Waianae coast in the middle of the night! Those who require full service would probably be recognizable or have a handicap placard to show. To me, this is a great opportunity to extend a little extra customer service by offering elderly and handicap customers a "mini service card" to be used at self service pumps in times of emergency.
    (Full-serve stations are getting rare. Does any other station in Maili provide full-service?)
    I'm not aware of another station along the Waianae coast which is why I patronize that particular station.
    Sometimes, you have old people who like to go through full service because it's hard for them to bend down and check the pressure on their tires.

    And of course, you have those folks who can't tell the difference between their brake reservoir and the power steering pump.

    And yet, they hear a strange noise or see some warning lights on the instrument panel, and they don't know what to do.

    I guess if you're going to have crybabies like Lee complain about getting "ripped off," in the future, the station owner might make the decision to suspend full-service and only pump gas in an emergency. But I just think it's a shame for a station to suddenly not give full-service, at a time when it might be most appreciated and vital. Doing so amounts to pacifying the loud minority who weren't paying attention and blaming others for their mistake. What about the majority of customers who wanted and needed the full-service at that critical time?
    I could be wrong, but it seems to me that this small business could/should have various disaster plans in place. And maybe he does. That station is directly across the street from the ocean. I mean, this is obviously Monday morning quarterbacking, but I see nothing wrong, under emergency circumstances, with that station's owner going all self-serve, dropping the pump prices on the full serve and offering mini service (akin to Lex Brodie's) to those who obviously need it...and at self serve prices. Whatta customer service coup that would be. An emergency situation with lengthy lines is not the time for full service. If someone, elderly, handicapped or not, doesn't have the foresight to maintain their car (air in tires, under the hood stuff) while they're out and about during non-emergency times, well, something like Sat. morning is not the time to devote to it. Gas (with or without help) and GO!
    If this was 40 years ago, this wouldn't even be an issue. A guy fills up at the wrong pump due to his own carelessness.... then everyone would say that the guy screwed up for ignoring the signs. And that would be that.
    IIRC...it was all full serve 40 years ago; or darn near all!
    But in a day and age where judges will give multi-million dollar awards to people for burning themselves with coffee from a styrafoam cup that didn't say "Hot!" it seems like people with no common sense and self-responsibility are quick to blame others and if they can, would perversely try to exploit the situation for their own gain.

    Sad!
    Sad, indeed. The world has always been full of people with no common sense. I don't see that changing any time soon!

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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    ... or the people who couldn't stock up on Saturday morning decided not to wait for the next civil defense siren and were hoping to stock up before they got caught short handed again!
    Only 89 days left to the opening day of hurricane season!
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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    I thought about WaterBob as I was filling waste baskets!!! How do you dry the inside of it?

    I have NO IDEA; I finally did drain it out with the siphon, and he is currently hanging in the shower. I'll take a blow dryer to him in a day or so if it looks like the water drops aren't leaving.

    You go, girl, I totally support you about employees getting stuck! Sounds like someone wasn't thinking straight.

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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Our building survived the 6.8 2001 Nisqually quake in good shape, but that one was just a knock at the door compared to what will happen here someday.

    Maybe I'll be living on O`ahu by then.
    Let's hope so.
    The quake in 2001 was an intraslab (a warning). What we really have to avoid is a quick slip of the S.J.DeF. plate under the N.A. landmass. I think that's what just happened in Chile. Even so, a tsunami out not to get as high as you are, but if you're down by the sea and hear a rumble - head for high ground!

    K
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    Unhappy Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    But in a day and age where judges will give multi-million dollar awards to people for burning themselves with coffee from a styrafoam cup that didn't say "Hot!" it seems like people with no common sense and self-responsibility are quick to blame others and if they can, would perversely try to exploit the situation for their own gain.
    Europeans I have talked with say that is their primary criticism of Americans! Shifting blame.

    K
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    Let's hope so.
    The quake in 2001 was an intraslab (a warning). What we really have to avoid is a quick slip of the S.J.DeF. plate under the N.A. landmass. I think that's what just happened in Chile. Even so, a tsunami out not to get as high as you are, but if you're down by the sea and hear a rumble - head for high ground!

    K
    If the North American Plate does consume California, there ain't no mountain high enough to save anyone. Best place would be in the ISS up in space.
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by bjd392 View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't worry about all this non-event tsunami drama.

    Although I will say it's been greater than 24 hours, and I haven't been bombarded with relief aid pleas for Chile yet. I guess humanitarians deem them less deserving.

    Besides, the "surfer schmuck" should be allowed to stay out in the ocean if he so desires. It's his life and his fun time. If he wants to drown, then that's the consequence of his choice.
    I agree. The boy-who-cried-wolf Tsunami Warning Center really bone-headed it. It was apparent hours before zero-hour that no significant wave(s) was headed our way (I read the entire reports from the center as they were produced and easily determined that fact). Chile deserves as much help as Haiti (none, IMHO), and that surfer was no threat to anyone, including himself. I'd say the authorities were the schmucks here.
    Last edited by salmoned; March 4th, 2010 at 12:41 PM.
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  10. #85

    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Whatta customer service coup that would be. An emergency situation with lengthy lines is not the time for full service. If someone, elderly, handicapped or not, doesn't have the foresight to maintain their car (air in tires, under the hood stuff) while they're out and about during non-emergency times, well, something like Sat. morning is not the time to devote to it.
    You're right, of course. People who procrastinate when it comes to fixing their cars are their own worst enemies. But there are times when troubles only become apparent during an emergency. Many elderly people do not drive their cars everyday. If they only use their vehicles on an occasional basis, then it's quite possible for a car they had to seemingly be in perfect operating order the last time they used it..... and 3 days later when they suddenly need to drive again in an emergency, their car is shimmying and making wierd noises. It can happen to anybody, and no good comes out of scolding or lecturing motorists caught up in those situations.

    As far as dropping prices of full serve in an emergency, here's my thought: Consumers have every right to expect that a merchant will not jack-up their prices in direct response to an emergency. But by the same token, they also shouldn't expect prices to be specially discounted in an emergency, either. Especially if a small-business owner has to deal with paying for employee OT or calling in for extra help to deal with the emergency. The profit margin is very small for the local station owners when it comes to the gas-n-go prices. Full-serve is where they make more money, paid for by the customers willing to pay for it. If a customer is truly loyal to a particular business, they would be aware that, come rain or shine, real tsunami or a false alarm, a business owner still has to feed their families and pay their bills. As I said, customers have every right to expect not to be taken advantage of due to an emergency situation. But conversely, they shouldn't expect to take advantage of an emergency to benefit themselves, either.

    Related to this, the Advertiser printed a story about buyer's remorse setting in on the people who went on a panic-buying spree.

    Kapolei Safeway shopper Rich Foust had a different way of describing it.

    "It's buyer's remorse," said Foust, who once worked as a Safeway meat cutter and said he's witnessed parades of customers bringing back unopened bulk items following a false alarm. "They make it too easy for people today. You don't even need a receipt to get store credit.

    "Instead of us thinking about our neighbors, as we've been instructed, we think about ourselves. And we better get to the store before somebody else gets that last roll of toilet paper. And, if we don't use it, we'll just bring it back."
    That guy hit it right on the head. There's more and more people who may be living in the Aloha state, but display very little of the Aloha spirit.

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    I agree. The boy-who-cried-wolf Tsunami Warning Center really bone-headed it. It was apparent hours before zero-hour that no significant wave(s) was headed our way (I read the entire reports from the center as they were produced and easily determined that fact). Chile deserves as much help as Haiti (none, IMHO), and that surfer was no threat to anyone, including himself. I'd say the authorities were the schmucks here.
    I figured someone was going to blast the warning system. The fact that tsunami's are so dynamic in how they respond to the geological aspects of the ocean's floor, no one can accurately predict how the wave will react once it reaches our shores.

    Better to have warned and evacuated than to not warn and have a population devastated because of some rogue wave action.
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    The boy-who-cried-wolf Tsunami Warning Center really bone-headed it. (...) I'd say the authorities were the schmucks here.
    Okay, I finally figured it out -- you absolutely must have been joking.

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    Better to have warned and evacuated than to not warn and have a population devastated because of some rogue wave action.
    Amen. No sane person can argue that point in any way, shape or form.
    A simple review of the video footage of the tsunami that struck Indonesia proves it.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    If the North American Plate does consume California, there ain't no mountain high enough to save anyone. Best place would be in the ISS up in space.
    haha, Tool predicts something similar!

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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    I figured someone was going to blast the warning system. The fact that tsunami's are so dynamic in how they respond to the geological aspects of the ocean's floor, no one can accurately predict how the wave will react once it reaches our shores.

    Better to have warned and evacuated than to not warn and have a population devastated because of some rogue wave action.
    Yes, well if that's the case, why don't we just have a constant state of warning? Safer for everybody. If we can't predict the nature of the threat with the tools we've deployed, those tools must be woefully inadequate, eh? I simply scanned the buoy numbers (height and period), disregarded the anecdotal reports of a large wave (with reports of no damage) in the Marquesas and reached the conclusion that 50 feet from shore was plenty safe for sunbathers.

    You are just plain wrong from every angle of attack on this issue. The Warning Center's purpose is to identify and assess the threat. If they can't assess the threat, they're just shy of useless (a machine can and does identify the threat). As well, a series of inaccurate warnings results in boy-who-cried-wolf complacency.

    Likanui, sorry, the Indonesian 'footage' is not relevant (our warning system is useless for an event of that proximity), the results in Sri Lanka and India is properly comparable. Yes, tsunamis can, have and will cause damage. However, misleading warnings cause damage, too. This is the fourth misleading tsunami warning I've experienced in Hawaii.
    Last edited by salmoned; March 5th, 2010 at 08:46 AM.
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  15. #90

    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    Yes, well if that's the case, why don't we just have a constant state of warning? Safer for everybody. If we can't predict the nature of the threat with the tools we've deployed, those tools must be woefully inadequate, eh? I simply scanned the buoy numbers (height and period), disregarded the anecdotal reports of a large wave (with reports of no damage) in the Marquesas and reached the conclusion that 50 feet from shore was plenty safe for sunbathers.
    Well then, why didn't you come out and state your conclusion right here on SATURDAY MORNING???

    You call the Tsumani Warning Center's tools and abilities as being "woefully inadequate?" Well, let me just state here that I'm not impressed with your armchair QBing in the least. Any Tom, Dick, or Kimo can play this second-guessing game.

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    Cool Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Well then, why didn't you come out and state your conclusion right here on SATURDAY MORNING???
    What would that have changed?

    Evidently he doesn't need to feed his ego, which is all that would have been accomplished; everybody would still have listened to Civil Defense.
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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
    Yes, well if that's the case, why don't we just have a constant state of warning? Safer for everybody. If we can't predict the nature of the threat with the tools we've deployed, those tools must be woefully inadequate, eh? I simply scanned the buoy numbers (height and period), disregarded the anecdotal reports of a large wave (with reports of no damage) in the Marquesas and reached the conclusion that 50 feet from shore was plenty safe for sunbathers.

    You are just plain wrong from every angle of attack on this issue. The Warning Center's purpose is to identify and assess the threat. If they can't assess the threat, they're just shy of useless (a machine can and does identify the threat). As well, a series of inaccurate warnings results in boy-who-cried-wolf complacency.

    Likanui, sorry, the Indonesian 'footage' is not relevant (our warning system is useless for an event of that proximity), the results in Sri Lanka and India is properly comparable. Yes, tsunamis can, have and will cause damage. However, misleading warnings cause damage, too. This is the fourth misleading tsunami warning I've experienced in Hawaii.
    You can't use the Boy who cried Wolf reasoning. In that fable, that boy lied for attention. I hardly believe Civil Defense was trying to get your attention by lying about a tsunami. Complacency is what kills. You ignore any warning and chances are you will be affected.

    Is it so frustrating to be on the ready? Heck I live by the ocean and own a house that could get wiped out from a tsunami. I have every reason to be more frustrated than you. As a matter of fact I'm relieved the evacuation process worked magnificantly where I live. No bottlenecks like when in the 80's I was stuck in gridlock in Waikiki when the tsunami was supposed to hit. We had no solid evacuation plan in place then. We do now and events such as what happened last Saturday is proof that we are ready for the big one. Aren't you glad too?
    Last edited by craigwatanabe; March 5th, 2010 at 12:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Chile Earthquake and Tsunami Warning for Feb. 27, 2010

    Salmoned, I'll just say that as an emergency responder I'm thrilled that your viewpoint is from an extremely miniscule minority of the population here.
    As for "crying wolf," remember that the wolf eventually did indeed arrive.
    As will a deadly tsunami.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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