The March to Socialism

[matapule]

Re: Obama Admits Lying

And the Obama administration, under pressure, has now admitted that they lied — the health care bill IS actually a new tax:............the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”
.

I can't agree with you. You have taken the quotes above and made the "a priori" presumption that the above statements (1) amount to an admission of a lie and (2) that the requirement for health care is a tax. The statements above do not justify such a presumption. What the Obama Administration is professing is that the power to impose health care requirements is the same power that allows the imposition of taxes. I will let the legal minds with knowledge of Constitutional law argue whether that is true, but certainly those legal minds are not members of Hawaii Threads.

[Amati]

Re: Obama Admits Lying

I will let the legal minds with knowledge of Constitutional law argue whether that is true, but certainly those legal minds are not members of Hawaii Threads.

HTers might be surprised at who all takes an occasional peruse of the search option in HT on topics of interest to them. I know for a fact that at least one J.D. is a HT member and makes an occasional posting. [I bet the list of who posts here, or used to, would be quite impressive if we ever put such a list together... especially if included are those who post under anonymous names ]

[Bobinator]

Re: Obama Admits Lying

I can't agree with you. You have taken the quotes above and made the "a priori" presumption that the above statements (1) amount to an admission of a lie and (2) that the requirement for health care is a tax. The statements above do not justify such a presumption. What the Obama Administration is professing is that the power to impose health care requirements is the same power that allows the imposition of taxes. I will let the legal minds with knowledge of Constitutional law argue whether that is true, but certainly those legal minds are not members of Hawaii Threads.

There are significant elements of tax hikes in the Health Care Law.

"Both the cap-gains and dividend taxes will go up further in 2013 as the health care reform adds a 3.8% Medicare levy for individuals making more than $200,000 a year and joint filers making more than $250,000. Other tax hikes include: halving the child tax credit to $500 from $1,000 and fixing the standard deduction for couples at the same level as it is for single filers."

Not to mention penalties for businesses and individuals who opt out of the socialist health care.
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...e-Horizon.aspx

By the way, here's what Comrade Obama did while we weren't looking. He just loves to spend our money! So much for the promise of transparency-
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...titution-vote/

[matapule]

Re: Obama Admits Lying

the health care reform adds a 3.8% Medicare levy for individuals making more than $200,000 a year and joint filers making more than $250,000.

OMG save the wealthy! As a result, they may have to delay purchasing the 700 series BMW for a month!

BTW, what does Medicare have to do with health care reform? The battle for Medicare was fought 40 years ago with the Republicans voting almost in masse in opposition to the program.

[Kalalau]

Re: The March to Socialism

Every time I have any dealings with the American health care system I think sooooooo fondly of dealing with the Canadian system. It works. It could be improved. Everything could be improved.

In Hawai'i last April we had to do an appointment with the Big Island Kaiser. Think of the cost of private bureaucrats @ $ ?? per hour for a whole hour assessing the coverage from California for a Hawai'i appointment. Multiply by millions of customers. What a pointless waste. No wonder costs are lower when that money is spent on doctors, nurses, labs, medicine, hospital beds, equipment, etc, rather than phone calls, computer time, paper shuffling. Oh Canada!!

[Bobinator]

Re: Obama Admits Lying

OMG save the wealthy! As a result, they may have to delay purchasing the 700 series BMW for a month!

BTW, what does Medicare have to do with health care reform? The battle for Medicare was fought 40 years ago with the Republicans voting almost in masse in opposition to the program.

Penalizing those who make more (What da heck's wrong with making more?) undermines job growth and promotes higher unemployment. Can't have it both ways.

A lot of times, the Republicans disapproving a Bill, has little to do with the concept itself, but rather things that are hidden within the Bill that make it unacceptable. On the Health Care Bill thread, we talked about various items in the 1,500+ page Bill that had nothing to do with health care, like the "Community Police Force" provision. Another example is the billions in pork inserted into the bailout package to reward Senators who voted for it.