Greece's Financial Woes

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

As for S. Korea donating family gold to the government, well that's a noble thing to do in crisis, we here in America donate our hard-earned income thru taxes and increases in taxation would be the value for which Koreans would compare their gold donations against.

Koreans also pay income taxes too. And so does virtually every other country. So what's the sacrifice in that?

You perfectly illustrate the point that Pesek makes. True sacrifices are not easy to make. And indeed, many people don't want to make them. They want to enjoy an ever higher standard of living that they're not willing to pay for. Naturally, this results in accumulating a debt that has to be paid for somewhere down the road.

In Greece's case, their national debt was accumulating so fast that their creditors weren't going to indefinitely stand by and do nothing. For the Greeks, they're learning the hard way that they no longer having the luxury of enjoying a lifestyle that will be paid for by their children, and their children's children. But here in the good ole' US, so many folks are still in denial and continue to think that they can indefinitely put off paying Mr. Piper. They have no clue about how their world will suddenly shatter apart on the day when the Chinese and Japanese say, "Enough is enough," and will no longer take in our Dollars.

Don't laugh. It could happen to our currency before it does the Euro.

Tax increase? On the rich?

Who's talking about a tax increase? Obama is simply letting the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire and having it revert to levels during the Clinton administration. You know, that time during the 1990s when this country actually had a balanced budget.

Or do you actually want our govt. to continue engaging with budget deficits? That doesn't sound like talk from a fiscal conservative now, does it?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

Koreans also pay income taxes too. And so does virtually every other country. So what's the sacrifice in that?

You perfectly illustrate the point that Pesek makes. True sacrifices are not easy to make. And indeed, many people don't want to make them. They want to enjoy an ever higher standard of living that they're not willing to pay for. Naturally, this results in accumulating a debt that has to be paid for somewhere down the road.

In Greece's case, their national debt was accumulating so fast that their creditors weren't going to indefinitely stand by and do nothing. For the Greeks, they're learning the hard way that they no longer having the luxury of enjoying a lifestyle that will be paid for by their children, and their children's children. But here in the good ole' US, so many folks are still in denial and continue to think that they can indefinitely put off paying Mr. Piper. They have no clue about how their world will suddenly shatter apart on the day when the Chinese and Japanese say, "Enough is enough," and will no longer take in our Dollars.

Don't laugh. It could happen to our currency before it does the Euro.



Who's talking about a tax increase? Obama is simply letting the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire and having it revert to levels during the Clinton administration. You know, that time during the 1990s when this country actually had a balanced budget.

Or do you actually want our govt. to continue engaging with budget deficits? That doesn't sound like talk from a fiscal conservative now, does it?

I hate it when you do Well we can start by reducing the size of Government instead of relying on taxes to keep feeding this white elephant.

Personally I don't have much gold to donate, but here in the United States of America we can offer to reduce the burden of government work by donating our time such as giving up trash pickup and taking our opala to the transfer stations ourselves. Or how about everybody take care of our parks by bringing their lawn mowers one Saturday and doing a group mowing of Kapiolani Park? Maybe donating money to non-profits so they don't have to rely on DHS for grants to assist the impoverished.

Gold is nice but direct services are probably more efficient. It gets the job done and reduces the size of government. People taking care of people.

Civic organizations like the Rotary, Elk, Lions and others give of their time and money for the benefit of those in need. You don't need to join one of these clubs to show your support thru community service, just go out there and do it. We rely on government to do so much for us it's no wonder it's so huge.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

Well we can start by reducing the size of Government instead of relying on taxes to keep feeding this white elephant.

Personally I don't have much gold to donate, but here in the United States of America we can offer to reduce the burden of government work by donating our time such as giving up trash pickup and taking our opala to the transfer stations ourselves. Or how about everybody take care of our parks by bringing their lawn mowers one Saturday and doing a group mowing of Kapiolani Park? Maybe donating money to non-profits so they don't have to rely on DHS for grants to assist the impoverished.

All that you mention is a good start. But keep in mind that all the things you mention are paid for through local taxes. (Unless you're talking about federal parks.) The fed gets it's revenue primarily through income taxes.

There's no getting around it. The Bush tax cuts for the rich is what has driven up the federal deficit, more than anything else. According to this Center on Budget & Policy Priorities report based on 2005 data from the Congressional Budget Office:

Some seek to portray “runaway domestic spending” or growth in the costs of entitlement programs as the primary cause of the shift in recent years from sizeable surpluses to large deficits. Such a characterization is incorrect. In 2005, the cost of tax cuts enacted over the past four years will be over three times the cost of all domestic program increases enacted over this period.

The CBPP (a non-partisan research organization, BTW) offered this analysis in February:

Some commentators blame recent legislation — the stimulus bill and the financial rescues — for today’s record deficits. Yet those costs pale next to other policies enacted since 2001 that have swollen the deficit.

Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration — tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for almost $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. (The prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 accounts for further substantial increases in deficits and debt, which we are unable to quantify due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues. Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers.

John McCain made Congressional earmarks and the so-called "runaway domestic spending" as his favorite whipping boys during his failed presidential run. But those things were like a drop in the bucket when compared to how the Bush tax cuts contributed to the deficit. The figures are there for anyone to see.

Of course, I know better than to expect the rich to be in favor of letting the Bush tax cuts come to an end. But keep in mind. Even before Obama took office, those tax cuts were scheduled to expire in 2010. It was never enacted as a permanent cut. Furthermore, did the rich have it that bad during the Clinton years? Well, I don't recall CNN doing any news stories about the hardships and trials of the wealthy during the 1990s.

[Bobinator]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

Three people were killed in last week's riot. They can have a riot this week where 30 more people get killed,....... and all for what??? The sobering fact is that it won't get them a single euro closer to paying off their country's debt.

Violence offers no solution to this problem. Neither are bailouts that are given without the necessary fiscal re-structuring and some good old-fashioned sacrifice on the part of the Greeks. I think a good place for those people to start looking for positive change is to learn from another country (namely, South Korea) that had to climb out of its own economic hole a decade ago.

This is what happens when your society has been brainwashed to rely on government for everything, which is happening right here in America.

Reknown trends forecaster, Gerald Celente, just stated that the riots WILL spread to the U.S. and all over the world. This is just the beginning. Celente hasn't been off the mark in his major forecasts in the last 25 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pex0jQ4xrvY

[Bobinator]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

I can't see what the S. Koreans did to work here in America. First of all in order to let a bank fail and fire it's employees would be considered the right thing to do in a free market. Our free market economy is based on success and failure of any business. If it does good, it should reap it's rewards. If it sucks, then it should be allowed to fail instead of being bailed out. But Democrats embrace entitlements as opposed to Republicans who feel differently. By controlling the masses, the government controls the economy not the market.

As for S. Korea donating family gold to the government, well that's a noble thing to do in crisis, we here in America donate our hard-earned income thru taxes and increases in taxation would be the value for which Koreans would compare their gold donations against.

Tax increase? On the rich? Who's gonna have any money left to invest in our stock market? Who's gonna have any money left to put into our banking institutions? Do the poor invest? I'm middle class and yet I don't have enough money to invest like my rich friends.

The rich invest, they use money like a tool to make more money. That's how they get rich. You need money to make money as the saying goes. When you don't have any, it's that much harder to make more. Their investments into our indicator of national economic stability is what keeps America financially solvent (or insolvent) by investing in our stock markets.

Tax the rich and they won't be investing because they won't have the tools to do so anymore. Pretty soon they're not rich anymore and can claim entitlements like the rest of poor folk, and then who's gonna support the welfare system when there aren't any rich people to tax? Who? Us. We'll be putting in an extra dollar then claiming a fraction of that back as entitlements. Why don't we just keep that dollar and use all of it?

Isn't that what reducing taxes do? Allow taxpayers to keep more of what they earn so individually we can pull ourselves out of our own economic hell.

That's basic economics 101 here. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor sounds nice and ethical, but eventually there aren't gonna be any rich left to take from and who supports the system now when everybody's got their hands out looking for help. Look at what's happening to unemployment claims! The federal government has to add yet another extension to those still out of work and for new claims because more people are fast becoming poorer. Who are these people? If they weren't poor before they must have been richer before. It's happening...the rich are becoming poorer and cannot sustain anymore taxation. Good for them? No not good for us who need their tax dollars to pay for our entitlements, the biggest one that has yet to be implimented...National Health Care. Who's gonna pay for that when we're all poor and really could use it.

I agree. But it's important to differentiate between the ordinary rich from the mega rich that's running Wall Street and Capitol Hill.

I wouldn't donate a single dime to the Feds. They are the ones robbing the entire nation blind to feed the likes of Goldman Sachs and other financial monsters. That's why the Tea Party is in swing. If everyone knew the truth about the grand theft that's happening in our country, we'd all support the Tea Party movement and storm Washington.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

True sacrifices are not easy to make. And indeed, many people don't want to make them. They want to enjoy an ever higher standard of living that they're not willing to pay for. Naturally, this results in accumulating a debt that has to be paid for somewhere down the road.

The austerity measures that the Greek rioters were protesting against were things like slashed salaries, reduced pensions, and increased taxes. But I did some sleuthing on the net and found another thing that the people of Greece may need to be willing to sacrifice.

According to a country-by-country comparison done by Mercer, the govt. of Greece currently mandates a minimum of 25 paid vacation days for full-time workers, in addition to 12 public holidays. In total, this adds up to 37 total vacation days. In comparison, Canada provides for a minimum of 10 paid vacation days and 9 public holidays for 19 days total. China's numbers are 10 and 11 days respectively, for a 21 day total. And of course, here in the US, the govt. doesn't impose a minimum number of vacation days on employers. But if one uses Mercer's estimated figure of 15 paid vacation days (which not everyone gets, that's for sure) and you add that to the 10 public holidays that are observed, the "typical" American employee gets 25 days off.

Considering how they are up to their eyeballs in debt, the Greek govt. really ought to consider increasing their productivity by cutting the number of vacation days and holidays. Once again, such a move would be highly unpopular with their people. But hey, making do with fewer days off than what the Greeks have enjoyed is something that so many countries have been doing for generations, through both good and bad economic times. Are the Greeks willing to make that kind of sacrifice for the sake of their country's long-term wellbeing? We'll see.

[bjd392]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

Based on some business trends, it appears as though the investment in firearms and ammunition has gone up.

[Bobinator]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

Violent protests starting to spread across Europe-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVRIUIdbLl4

[Bobinator]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

Here's some grim news updates relating to Greece.

"Whatever Germany does, the euro as we know it is dead"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...t-is-dead.html

Roubini- "Stocks to Tumble another 20%"
http://www.cnbc.com//id/37259541

Here's an interesting one the press isn't covering much- Violent protests in Thailand. The start of a possible civil war... coming to a town near you.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...695879,00.html

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

Here's a headline grabber from the New York Times about the weakness of the Social Welfare model. It's interesting that this article addresses the "Nuclear Umbrella" the West is protected with by the United States and NATO so they can afford things like national health care and cradle to grave welfare subsidies. The world has become so dependent on America's financial market to pay for this "Nuclear Umbrella" while spending billions of Euros on it's social welfare system.

So bottom line is if Wall Street fails, the world fails.

[Bobinator]

Re: Greece's Financial Woes

Here's a headline grabber from the New York Times about the weakness of the Social Welfare model. It's interesting that this article addresses the "Nuclear Umbrella" the West is protected with by the United States and NATO so they can afford things like national health care and cradle to grave welfare subsidies. The world has become so dependent on America's financial market to pay for this "Nuclear Umbrella" while spending billions of Euros on it's social welfare system.

So bottom line is if Wall Street fails, the world fails.

This was intentional, so that the globalist can have their one world government. They have to destroy the Constitution and put most everyone in the poor house before they can accomplish this, and that's exactly what they're doing.

Unbeknownst to most of us, Obama just sent 4 carriers to the Gulf. I suspect it's for preparations for war with Iran. Notice how this is timed with the destruction of the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico.
http://www.debka.com/article/8794/