Public School Furlough Days

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

I had another interesting chat with another Watanabe who just happens to sit on the BOE. He tells me even if Lingle and the HSTA sat and chatted, the state legislature still needs to convene. He told me the problem is not only with Lingle, but the Senate's view on this matter and how they want to deal with it, AND the House's view on this matter and how they want to deal with it. So despite all the talk about the Governor and HSTA talking, none of that matters because now that the BOE and the HSTA have come to an agreement, the next step is the House, then the Senate (or the Senate then the House), then once the HSTA/BOE, House and Senate come up with an agreeable plan (and they're very far from seeing eye to eye), ONLY THEN can Lingle negotiate.

He said to watch for I think April 16th when the discussion in the legislature votes to put on the ballot whether to appoint the next school board of education or not. Lingle will be watching this very closely as well as it's all tied in together.

H. Watanabe says he's kinda throwing his hands up in the air already because this agreement with the BOE and the HSTA still needs to go thru two more rounds in the legislature (House and Senate) before Lingle will even sniff at it. And by then this agreement could have changed dramatically depending on the mood of each of the two chambers.

Apparently everybody wants to get in on the action including the parents and children who did the sleepover at the Governor's office for no apparent reason. Lingle does need to talk to the HSTA however by doing so she will rile the feathers of both the House and Senate for breaching her authority.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

Apparently everybody wants to get in on the action including the parents and children who did the sleepover at the Governor's office for no apparent reason.

"For no apparent reason?" Man, you haven't been paying attention to the news lately, have you?

Those protestors have been getting a lot of publicity and really putting the screws to Dingle Lingle every time a reporter with a mike and camera approaches them. And in my estimation, Lingle had mishandled the protestors on her door step badly, from a P.R. standpoint.

Day 1 - KHON

Day 2 - KITV - HNN - KITV

Day 3 - KHON (Governor sneaking out the backdoor of her office? If the governor is adamant about the rightness of her stance, then why can't she state that face-to-face with the protestors? And if she's going to stonewall these parents and kids, it only adds to the perception that she's likewise stonewalling the union at this critical point in the negotiations.)

HNN (Finding out that shutting off the A/C and denying protestors the use of bathrooms weren't enough to shoo off the protestors, Dingle-A-Ling has her lackeys issue citations, stating that the protestors were "impeding important public business." Duh!!! So does this mean that Dingle-A-Ling thinks that Furlough Fridays aren't "important public business? If Furlough Fridays aren't an important issue in the governor's eyes, then pray tell what is???)

KITV (Ditto.)

Day 4 - KITV (Protestors move to the front of Washington Place.)

Day 5 - HNN - KITV (The protestors have a rally on the grounds of the state capitol building. In the meantime, the governor claims in a letter that the protestors are making false claims. But once again, Dingle-A-Ling doesn't have the guts to tell the protestors this face-to-face.)

Lingle does need to talk to the HSTA however by doing so she will rile the feathers of both the House and Senate for breaching her authority.

The legislature has already signed-off on a bill to make available $180 million from the hurricane relief fund to end Furlough Fridays. However, as House Finance Chair Marcus Oshiro said, the ball is now in the court of both the Governor and the teachers' union to strike a deal on the final price tag. So contrary to what you say, the Legislature actually WANTS the governor to be talking with the HSTA.

KITV

Lawmakers have said they will not release money without a compromise reached by the governor who proposed $62 million to end furloughs and the teachers union-school board who say it can't be done for less that $92 million.

Oshiro Tuesday offered to serve a mediator to help end the stalemate between the parties.

"I think they are being hard heads, but if they really look inside themselves and consider what's the best way to end this furlough Friday debacle, I think they will realize they need to resolve it now," said Oshiro.

[Kimo]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

I thought comm director Lenny Klompus was better than this . . . unless Lingle has overruled his advice. All she gotta do is slip in after hours (no media present) and spend some time talking story with the protestors, be reasonable, and maybe they will be reasonable, too - happy that they got an audience - and leave. The sit-in has received national media attention - what an embarrassment.

On the other hand, the way the parties to the non-discussions of the whole furlough issue have dug in is stupid . . . not to mention the furloughs never should have happened in the first place.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

The sit-in in Dingle-Ling's office continues.

Day 6 - KITV - HNN - Honolulu Advertiser

Oh! The govenor is stepping up her intimidation tactics, now issuing criminal trespass citations in the 2nd degree, which carries a 1 year ban from the state capitol. And like the "forthright" leader she is,.... Lingle has her sheriffs do the dirty work after the broadcast media crews have left the scene.

All the while, the pundits are having a field day analyzing just how badly the governor has bungled the sit-in.

Lee Cataluna

Lingle doesn't have to order bentos for the protesters in her office, but she has done nothing to acknowledge their frustration. Indeed, everything she's done, from leaving her office out the back way to writing the defensive "you people just don't get it" letter on Sunday has only strengthened their resolve and garnered more supporters. The protesters have become archetypal earnest "little guys" standing up to a heartless leader on behalf of children. When the protest started on Wednesday, it was a few parents and their kids. Now it's a movement that has garnered national media coverage.

All Lingle had to do was call the protesters into her office that first day, close the door to reporters and have a 15-minute "I hear you; let's work together" chat even if she thinks they are wrong. She might have even enlisted their support in her beef against school bureaucracy and unions.

Lingle has said a lot about accountability in the schools, but in that spiky Sunday letter to the protesters, she wrote three pages deflecting responsibility from herself.

Advertiser Editorial

That said, the governor could have and should have defused the situation long before now. She would not have been able to deliver a settlement, as the group asked, by a mid-April deadline.

But she should have held a face-to-face meeting with the parents, however brief, instead of getting so defensive and downright rude in her insistence to blow them off.

Lingle is the state's top elected official. Facing her critics directly would have been a show of courage and the leadership people expect of their governor.

It also would graciously allow the parents to save face and go home, where they have many other responsibilities.

Yes, that is THE question. Why is it that Lingle refuses to meet with these protestors face-to-face, even if for a few minutes? Is it stubborness? Or just plain arrogance? As the Advertiser points out, the governor didn't have to offer an instantaneous solution that would end Furlough Fridays on the spot. Simply acknowledging the protestors, respectfully empathizing with their situation, and assuring them that she would make a greater effort to be personally involved with the negotiations would have likely ended the sit-in. But whether she was acting upon bad advice or acting like the typical "Ainokea, I'm a lame duck anyway" politician, Lingle has turned the sit-in into a week-long media circus. And if she's not embarrased about that, she damn well should be.

Can't wait for Lingle to make her next blunder, which would be to arrest the protestors.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

Day 7 - After an entire week of stonewalling the protestors, the governor finally meets the protestors face-to-face in a news conference. That was the good news.

The bad news is that she didn't answer any of their questions and would only interact with members of the media.

KITV

KHON

HNN

All right. If Lingle wasn't going to answer any questions from the protestors, one would hope that she would at least offer a conciliatory message to them and to tone down the adverserial vibes from her written statement on Sunday. But,... you guessed it. She decided to take it up a notch.

"People have asked me the question why haven't you just met with these people and I tell them you know I'm human on my good days like most other people and when people send me what I take as politically threatening letters and saying if you don't meet with us then we'll do x, y and z then it's just not the type of people you're excited to meet with," said Governor Lingle.

Oy.

Needless to say, the governor's "one-way conversation" didn't satisfy the protestors. The sit-in continued.

Can't wait for Lingle to make her next blunder, which would be to arrest the protestors.

And sure enough, Dingle-Ling didn't disappoint me. Two protestors cited for the 3rd time have been arrested tonight.

Star-Bulletin

Advertiser

Well, the governor has gone and done it now.

Mark my words. Her future in elective politics in Hawaii has just gone up in smoke.

AFAIAC, good riddance.

[dyasu]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

I don't really understand the logic that Lingle should meet with these people.

Let's ignore the fact that the purpose of their sit in is illogical to begin with in that Lingle is not the only one to blame for furloughs and leaning on her alone is extremely biased.

Even ignoring this, what good would come from the Governor meeting with a handful of illogical protesters? To show "courage and respect"? So let's say you're right and she does become the "bigger person" by sitting down with these people and talking to them. What if what she said wasn't agreeable with them? They probably would have walked right back out and stayed anyway. And what about the fact that even if the Governor were to say "OK I'M IN" tonight (or on the first night of the "sit in" for that matter), it's still more than likely too late for the other governing bodies to meet and get everything in motion to stop the last few furlough days of this school year? So essentially these protesters want the governor to rush into making a decision when really only 4 more days of furloughs are at stake in the immediate future. Personally I'd rather they take the whole summer and come up with a good plan (none of the parties involved have come up with a good plan so far in my opinion) and save the furlough days next year than throw millions of dollars in taxpayer money at the problem right now and hope it works out.

Also, if she sat down with these people then she's opening the door to have to sit down with any group of people who decide they want to complain about something to the Governor and decide to set up camp in her office. What next? A protest group is going to do a sit in because they believe in X or another one does it because they believe in Y? Is the governor supposed to spend her time speaking with ALL of these people?

Lingle didn't make furloughs on her own. The HSTA ratified the 2 year contract that included the 17 furlough days.

And these protesters don't even attack the root of the problem. Furlough Fridays is the culmination of years of poor spending on the part of the DOE. Do these protesters realize that over the past few years the DOE spending has increased 500% faster than inflation? Do these protesters realize that Hawaii has the 14th highest per-student budget of the 50 states? Now I know things cost "more" in Hawaii, but not so much more that the 14th highest per-student budget should produce bottom 10 results in standardized testing.

Everyone is so quick to jump on Lingle. I'm not saying she's a saint but multiple parties are creating the stalemate over furloughs. Do you see the HSTA budging? Even the House Finance Chair stubbornly says:

It's just a matter of having the governor release the monies that are available to address the next 4 furlough Fridays. It's that simple.

Oh yes, just release $90 million from the hurricane relief fund, it's so simple!

I'm sorry if I'm ranting, but I just get mad that no one is talking about the real problem! Even if the Governor caves and gives in to the unions and gives up the $90 million, what about 2 years from now? Sure this surge of money will cover the costs of furloughs for the rest of this year and maybe into 2011, but if no one speaks up and gets DOE spending fixed then we'll be right back in this mess again in a couple of years. People should be getting pissed and protesting over this, not over this "band-aid" fix that will drain the hurricane relief fund.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

I don't really understand the logic that Lingle should meet with these people.

Whether or not a politician agrees with a particular constituent(s), most people have the expectation that elected leaders will at least listen to what they have to say.

I don't know if Lingle plans to run for Senator or Congresswoman in the future. But if she does, the videotape of the governor walking out of her news conference with the raised-hands of the protesters still in the air with questions unanswered will haunt her. You can bet on it.

Before taking the oath of governor, Lingle was like so many other candidates who had "talk story" sessions in the community, when one didn't have to be a member of the media to ask her a question. She liked to talk about how elected officials had to be accountable and accessible to the public.

Hmmm, I guess all that stuff about wanting to "talk story" and being accessible goes out the window after the elections are over and done with.

I don't care how intelligent or charismatic a political candidate is. Nobody will vote for a person who won't listen to what they have to say. I've been around long enough to know of so many lawmakers who have been voted out of office because they either ignored or were not sufficiently responsive to the concerns and inquiries of constituents. And once a politician loses the trust and confidence of voters, it's very hard to get it back.

Let's ignore the fact that the purpose of their sit in is illogical to begin with in that Lingle is not the only one to blame for furloughs and leaning on her alone is extremely biased.

I don't know if what you're saying is necessarily a fact. Leaning on Lingle alone? According to Save Our School's website:

In the past two weeks, we've met with the HSTA, BOE, and key legislators, and we will meet with the new Superintendent of the DOE on Wednesday morning. They all seem to be trying, in their own way, to bring an end to this crisis.

So SOS has successfully met with the union, state lawmakers, BOE and state schools superintendent. But it was the governor who resisted meeting with the group. This led to the sit-in situation in the governor's outer office.

You're of course, entitled to your opinion and to take whatever side you want. But I couldn't let this so-called "fact" pass without comment.

Everyone is so quick to jump on Lingle. I'm not saying she's a saint but multiple parties are creating the stalemate over furloughs.

Obviously, the governor and the union both have to be willing to compromise and meet each other somewhere in the middle. But if you perceive Linda Lingle as being jumped on, I don't see why that should be surprising to anyone.

The governor is the chief executive of this state. While many faces collectively make up the state legislature, HSTA, and BOE, the governor is an individual. And that makes her the single most visible party in these negotiations.

President Harry Truman said it best: If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Nobody forced Linda Lingle to run for governor. She wanted the job. With all the power and perks come the responsibilities and the headaches of the position.

Sorry, but I'm not shedding any tears for her.

[dyasu]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

And I'm not saying you should. I merely feel that the "sit ins" paint her in an unfair light when it comes to the entire furlough situation. For people like you and me who are actually aware of what is happening in with furlough negotiations, everything that's been happening in the past week or so can be seen from an objective point of view. But for those who are less passionate or at the very least less informed, these events seem to make it only Lingle's fault.

To only make a big to do and sit in on the one party who won't talk to you is unfairly aggressive I think. It's kind of like a child throwing a fit that they don't what they want (i.e. get to sit down face-to-face with the governor). I think that if these people were truly interested in getting their message out they should be doing sit ins on all parties involved until their is some resolution. Just because the other parties talked to you, doesn't mean that they are any closer to coming up with a sound resolution to end furloughs.

Bottom line is that the wishes of the SOS are unreasonable. Procedurally speaking there is no way to avoid the last few furlough days of this school year. Again, essentially they are pushing for a rushed resolution to save a mere 4 days of school before the summer break. I am still in favor of negotiations continuing a while longer as I don't think anyone's (Lingle's, HSTA, etc.) plans are good at this point. Education is important but to try and rush into spending $90 million to save 32 hours of instruction in the immediate future doesn't seem right to me.

Frankie's Market: While you and I may not agree on some points in this thread, I respect that you are informed in your opinions and would really like to get your take on what I feel is the heart of the entire problem with Hawaii's education system. What are your thoughts on DOE spending habits/budget?

[Kalihiboy]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

This sit-in is a bit ill-timed we have had the furloughs for what six months now and they choose to do this during the two weeks where we actually have a normal Monday thru Friday schedule.

The Governor failing to respond to them in person when they are just outside her office is absurd. Then when they get a response via letter from the Governor it is written with a very angry personal tone.

I think she should try and spend the last six months of her office repairing some of this PR mess. Go out and do the talk story's and face the public that voted you in twice.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

To only make a big to do and sit in on the one party who won't talk to you is unfairly aggressive I think.

"Unfairly aggressive" is how I would characterize the governor for arresting protestors who have peacefully been sitting-in her office waiting to talk to her and to ask questions.

It's kind of like a child throwing a fit that they don't what they want (i.e. get to sit down face-to-face with the governor).

What makes the governor think that she's "so special" that she couldn't spend a few minutes talking to and answering questions from the protestors?

I think that's the difference between you and me. I believe in the concept of the general public in this country being able to hold public officials accountable for what they do and having reasonable access to them. The governor is not a queen.

I have a distinct feeling that if you ever run for public office, you will probably wish that I'm not living in your district.

I think that if these people were truly interested in getting their message out they should be doing sit ins on all parties involved until their is some resolution. Just because the other parties talked to you, doesn't mean that they are any closer to coming up with a sound resolution to end furloughs.

The governor was the one who resisted seeing the SOS group for nearly a week. And when she finally did see them in the flesh, she wouldn't answer a single question from them.

Had she engaged in an open dialog with them the first day those parents came to her office, even if it was behind closed doors, perhaps the sit-in wouldn't have occurred.

But by stonewalling the protestors for five days, sneaking in and out of her office for days while the parents/kids waited outside, and then having that one-way news conference where seven of the protestors could finally see her but not say anything to her.... well, the governor didn't exactly put forward a face of reasonableness to the rest of the world.

I might be inclined to agree with your assessment about the protestors being like spoiled children had the governor met with them, answered at least a few questions,..... and then the protestors still insisted on occupying her office. But that hasn't been the case thus far.

Frankie's Market: While you and I may not agree on some points in this thread, I respect that you are informed in your opinions and would really like to get your take on what I feel is the heart of the entire problem with Hawaii's education system. What are your thoughts on DOE spending habits/budget?

One only has to look at the general condition of campus disrepair and the fact that Hawaii's teachers ranks last among states in average salary (with cost of living figured in) to know that the public school system needs more money. And for more money to come in, the state needs to find more revenue streams. I said in another thread that a situation like Furlough Fridays could have been avoided (or at the very least, reduced) had there been legalized gambling in Hawaii.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

Today was the Star-Bulletin's turn to show Dingle-Ling the error of her ways when it came to dealing with the sit-in protestors.

Take it away, Richard Borreca.

The gentle folks now residing in her lobby are only a symbolic protest. Turning high-pressure water hoses on them would be the only way Lingle could have handled this any worse than the passive aggression she has shown with her nasty letters and threats of arrest.

If Lingle is blessed with the ability to sell, why didn't she devote five hours to selling those kids and parents the first night they were camping in her office?

If she waited until the television crews were gone and then came out to talk, how could it not have gone better?

Sit down on the carpet with them, give the kids milk and Oreos and quietly explain her side of the furlough issue.

If she wheeled out a white board listing meetings with the unions, teachers, Board of Education and Department of Education, why would she not be believed?

What would the protesting parents have done if Lingle had just tried to bridge the gap, instead of having sheriffs threaten to arrest them? The parents said they resented "being treated like an inconsequential, wacky fringe group."

"We are just parents who are fed up," one woman said. In these times when Lingle needs to define her legacy, it is just seems smarter to look like Mother Teresa, rather than Bull Connor.

And while this editorial takes the HSTA and even the SOS protestors to task, it still readily admits that the governor "could have turned in a better performance in her handling of protesters who have been staging a sit-in..."

[dyasu]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

One only has to look at the general condition of campus disrepair and the fact that Hawaii's teachers ranks last among states in average salary (with cost of living figured in) to know that the public school system needs more money. And for more money to come in, the state needs to find more revenue streams. I said in another thread that a situation like Furlough Fridays could have been avoided (or at the very least, reduced) had there been legalized gambling in Hawaii.

While I do agree with your thoughts on the legalization of gambling, I do not agree with your idea that the DOE needs more money. They have more than enough money if you benchmark their overall budget against other states. We need people in the DOE (and other areas of government) who know how spend the money wisely.

And no, I would not fear for you being in my district if I ever ran for office A difference in opinion between two people like you and I is not something to be despised or feared, but rather something that should spark a debate with the goal of mutual understanding.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

And no, I would not fear for you being in my district if I ever ran for office A difference in opinion between two people like you and I is not something to be despised or feared, but rather something that should spark a debate with the goal of mutual understanding.

I'm glad to hear that! If someone with your attitude were to be my state rep. or city councilman, I definitely would consider you to be worthy of my vote. Agreeing to disagree is fine on some issues. (Disagreeing on most or all issues, well, that would be a problem...)

Unfortunately, not everyone in office thinks like you. Like a former Honolulu city councilman who was in office for 12 years, started acting like a high muckamuck and even called my former neighbor a "son of a b---h" over the phone. Well, that was what got me actively involved in politics. And while the candidate I campaigned for didn't win the election, Mr. Muckamuck ended up losing his re-election bid in what was one of the bigger upsets that year.

(I don't want to say that guy's name. He was actually a good and proactive city councilman in his earlier years. He has since passed on, and it's time to let bygones be bygones.)

[escondido100]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

the last thing the schools need is more money...what they need is less people...take that money saved and pay the teachers more and be more efficient....
this is from hawaii reporter:

did you know that each school has two cabinetmakers?
and we have 287power mower supervisors...what do they do?
the school system has become a make work enterprise.
In response to a Freedom for Information Act request filed several months ago by Hawaii Reporter, the Department of Education just recently released its personnel position list for its 258 schools as of 2/10/10.

For the full spread sheet provided by the DOE, link here: DOE Personnel file

Some of the classified personnel include:


3,497 plumbers (355 per complex area or 13 per school)
2,832 power mower operators (315 per complex area or 11 per school)
287 power mower operator supervisors (32 per complex area or more than 1 per school)
587 cabinetmakers (65 per complex area and more than 2 per school)
4,382 educational assistant III (487 per complex area or 17 per school)
846 evaluation specialists (94 per complex area or more than 3 per school)
521 computer programmers (58 per complex area or more than 2 per school)
42 Illustrator-photographers (approx. 1 per complex area)
837 positions are not identified or attached to any program or school
Certificated employees include:


2,303 educational directors (9 per school or 256 per complex area)
135 deputy superintendents (15 per complex area)
80 contract directors (9 per complex area)
72 complex area superintendents (8 per complex area)
70 professional development directors (8 per complex area)
39 12-month state office teachers (4 per complex area)
34 district office teachers (4 per complex area)
28 complex area teachers (3 per complex area)
36 information resource management directors (4 per complex area)
A complex is composed of a high school, intermediate/middle school and elementary feeder schools. A complex area includes 2 to 3 school complexes. There are 9 complex areas in Hawaii’s statewide school district.

The DOE spends $2.4 billion a year on operating expense and over $200 million more on capital expenses for 170,000 students.

The DOE has 80,000 person payroll, according to the DOE's former IT director. But its total classified positions in the statewide public school system add up to 8,799; plus certified positions equal another 13,502 for a total of 22,301.

There are 4,391 elementary school teachers; 3,595 secondary teachers, 42 special school teachers; and 1,831 special education teachers.

The DOE did not provide information regarding salaries, but did provide salary grade for each position. Further analysis will provide government decision makers with the tools to streamline DOE operations and find the money to put students back in school.

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Public School Furlough Days

[quote=Frankie's Market;254582]"Unfairly aggressive" is how I would characterize the governor for arresting protestors who have peacefully been sitting-in her office waiting to talk to her and to ask questions. /quote]

Those SOS people were scary looking and had to be put in handcuffs. They should be in Midweek's Hawaii's Most Wanted. I wouldn't want to run into them on the street with their arm tats.