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  • #16
    Re: Questions re: leasing a car

    Originally posted by tutusue View Post
    Do all dealerships offer both purchase and lease for any new car on the lot?
    Can an old car be traded in on a car that will be leased?
    Can one haggle over the price, just like a purchase?
    Yes,

    Yes,

    Yes.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    • #17
      Re: Questions re: leasing a car

      Originally posted by zff View Post
      Isn't this the kind of mentality that got the country into the financial mess we're in? Consumers just want want and want. Can't afford it? Borrow. Already in debt? Borrow more. Extend yourself. Max out your credit. Damn the consequences. Maybe someone will bail you out if it all goes south.

      I'm not saying leasing is a universally bad idea. There are lots of situations where it's a smart thing to do -- but I think a good general rule of thumb is if you can't afford to buy the car, you shouldn't lease it either. I think the better course of action is to choose a car in your price range instead.
      Leasing a car doesn't mean getting into a car over your price range. It offers a way to capture your vehicle expenses thru taxable deductions. You can't do that in a vehicle purchase thru financing. Naturally if you're gonna lease a vehicle for business (really the only reason to lease) you want to keep it within your budget allocation.

      The problem with most vehicle purchases or leases is that it's typically more difficult to purchase a vehicle outright. Who has that kind of money to dispense at one time, especially businesses who need cash flow to stay solvent during times when accounts receivables can extend to past 90-days.

      I disagree that general rule of affordability. If you can't afford the cash outlay or monthly distribution of a purchase, then leasing IS a viable alternative because if you stay within the limits of the lease (mileage) you can walk away from the lease at the end (typically 3-years) instead of maintaining financing for 2-3 additional years where depreciatable value exceeds the net worth of the vehicle and ending up with an asset that has no cash value worth expending.

      Plus with leasing you can deduct those monthly expenses and recapture some of those costs.

      Bottom line of course is always affordability. If you can manage a 90-day net on receivables then leasing is affordable because you are showing prudent fiscal management of your cash assets. And you should only lease or purchase what you can comfortable afford. Getting in over your head won't help you or the dealership who wants to keep your business for your next purchase. Those sales associates who are in it for the quick buck will find their careers ending as quickly as the dealerships that facilitate that kind of arrogant attitude.

      Qualifying a customer means looking at what that customer can afford without developing a mindset of buyers remorse and that means finding the right vehicle at the right price. This is the function of a reputable sales associate and the dealership they work for.
      Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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      • #18
        Re: Questions re: leasing a car

        Originally posted by tutusue View Post
        Thx, FM, but all cars have cup holders. I just happen to LOVE one of the cup holders in my car. It's very cool! I'll miss it! And, yes, I've been known to drink a soda in my car...one with a top on it...but I have yet to spill a drop in any of my cars. Plus, I'm not very good at eating and driving...eating is too much of a distraction for me!
        Glad to hear you don't ear and drive at the same time. That would be quite a distraction, as you say. But of course, I was thinking more along the lines of eating in the car while parked.

        Originally posted by tutusue View Post
        Much like cell phones! Kids? Nope! Pets? Huh uh! Rarely a passenger, even! Regardless...$h!+ happens, and it can happen in any car at any time to anyone. But, for the most part, I'm the only one who spends any time in my car.
        Well, if you don't have pets or any young children to haul around, then I guess it's not a problem as far as keeping your car's interior spic and span. Lucky you.
        This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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        • #19
          Re: Questions re: leasing a car

          Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
          Glad to hear you don't ear and drive at the same time. That would be quite a distraction, as you say. But of course, I was thinking more along the lines of eating in the car while parked.
          Ya know what's weird? I don't think I've ever considered eating in my car while it's parked! I always take food to my destination. It's a comfort thing!
          Well, if you don't have pets or any young children to haul around, then I guess it's not a problem as far as keeping your car's interior spic and span. Lucky you.
          Been thru the kids and the pets and came out the other side, relatively unscathed! Only once did one of my kids get sick in the car...and it was my boyfriend's, not mine!

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          • #20
            Re: Questions re: leasing a car

            Craig, I know what you're saying, but do the majority of people who lease a car do so for business? Do they even do it as a financially sound decision? My limited personal experience is that that's not the case.

            The only few people I've known for a fact who leased their car did so because none of the new cars they could afford came from Germany (even though the cars they could afford from Japan would've met their needs just fine). These are people whose financial situations I can only barely describe as stable. That, and going by horror stories I've heard from other people, I've always felt leases had something of air of desperation about them.

            Maybe the vast majority of financially responsible lessees go by unnoticed, and I have my bad impression because the horror stories are louder. I will defer to your experience, Craig, and if you tell me most leases are sound financial decisions, I'll believe you. I'd be curious to hear what percentage of leases are not though.




            Originally posted by tutusue View Post
            Originally posted by zff View Post
            Well, not ALL cars. I have two that don't, and I know a few people who have cars that don't have cup holders.
            Really? My previous 2 cars didn't have cupholders but one was a 1978 and the other a 1988! My current car is a 1995. I kinda figured anything from the 1990s on had some sort of a cup holder!
            My 1983 Ferrari doesn't have cup holders, and while it's an old car, even the new 2011 models don't have 'em. My '91 Acura NSX doesn't have cup holders, and it's a model Acura produced up until 2005 without ever adding them. It seems lots -- if not most -- high end sports cars don't have cup holders.
            Last edited by zff; May 26, 2010, 08:40 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Questions re: leasing a car

              Originally posted by zff View Post
              [...]It seems lots -- if not most -- high end sports cars don't have cup holders.
              There's probably a very good reason for that!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                Originally posted by zff View Post
                ....The only few people I've known for a fact who leased their car did so because none of the new cars they could afford came from Germany (even though the cars they could afford from Japan would've met their needs just fine). These are people whose financial situations I can only barely describe as stable. That, and going by horror stories I've heard from other people, I've always felt leases had something of air of desperation about them.....
                I think there's yet another category of people who lease, those that would like to own a European car but are leery of how they start needing repairs as soon as the warranty ends. Having the chance to own two, my experience has been as soon as that warranty ends, little things start to pop up, no deal breakers but things that gnaw at your wallet. I haven't had the same problem with two Japanese cars I've owned.

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                • #23
                  Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                  Originally posted by tutusue View Post
                  Leasing is something I've not considered in the past but the more I read about it the more it seems right for me now.
                  At this point in my life, a warranty has become important to me. My current car's mechanic and I were talking about how poorly the more current versions of my car are made (I have an older car from the good ol' days of that particular manufacturer!). He mentioned for someone like me, buying a new Kia, Hyundai (and the like) and trading it in for a new one as soon as warranty runs out is the way to go. All I could think of was...Ugh, the thought of buying a new car every few years is depressing and expensive.
                  So...what am I missing?
                  Lemme back up a little. Now that you have leasing as one solution to the problem, and can do it at any time you want, can you take a few minutes to revisit the original question?

                  The reason I'm asking is because this seems to be trading the hassle of buying a new car from a dealer for a different set of hassles of leasing a car from a dealer. Hopefully the latter is less hassle than the former, but I'm skeptical/cynical.

                  Setting aside the leasing concept for a moment, what do you want from this situation? Do you want reliable transportation that always runs, even if you have to spend a little more money to get it? Do you want to avoid big lumpy budget-destroying repair expenses? Or do you want to have the novelty of new-car smell as soon as the incumbent's ashtrays fill up?

                  One option might be to purchase all the extended warranties from the dealer or from third-party insurers. When the car's air-conditioning core rots out or its starter motor fails then you've already insured the repair costs. You'd pay a bundle for this much insurance, but at least you're buying peace of mind at a lower price than a lease payment.

                  For reliability, you could insure your current car for towing and rental-car replacement. That's an expense (which you're already willing to pay as a lease) and a hassle (just like buying or leasing) but at least the problem might happen less frequently than a three-year leasing/buying concept. If your car doesn't start one day (or leaves you by the side of the road) then you take a taxi and call the mechanic/insurance company. Again not cheap but it satisfies your priorities and it's probably cheaper than leasing.

                  For big unpredictable repair bills, you could start setting aside a monthly repair fund in a money-market account. It'd be the monthly amount you're currently spending on repairs or the amount that you'd be spending on a lease payment. When the big repair happens then you curse as usual, but at least you already have the money on hand. And if the big repair doesn't happen, or if it takes a long time to happen, then you've saved a pile of money toward the purchase of a replacement vehicle.

                  For new-car smell, you could consider what you want as the car's original warranty expires and either go buy a replacement new car or start shopping for extended warranties. The advantage of this option is that you have the choice to keep a favored car longer if you want.

                  BTW, at fewer than 5000 miles per year it might be worth the added expense to have your trusted mechanic step up the frequency of oil changes, transmission inspections, and engine diagnostics. The hardest miles on a car are the first few miles out of the driveway, and we island residents put more wear & tear on our cars than Mainlanders routinely driving 200 miles/week at 70 MPH.
                  Youth may be wasted on the young, but retirement is wasted on the old.
                  Live like you're dying, invest like you're immortal.
                  We grow old if we stop playing, but it's never too late to have a happy childhood.
                  Forget about who you were-- discover who you are.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                    Originally posted by Nords View Post
                    Lemme back up a little. Now that you have leasing as one solution to the problem, and can do it at any time you want, can you take a few minutes to revisit the original question?
                    Absolutely!
                    The reason I'm asking is because this seems to be trading the hassle of buying a new car from a dealer for a different set of hassles of leasing a car from a dealer. Hopefully the latter is less hassle than the former, but I'm skeptical/cynical.

                    Setting aside the leasing concept for a moment, what do you want from this situation? Do you want reliable transportation that always runs, even if you have to spend a little more money to get it? Do you want to avoid big lumpy budget-destroying repair expenses? Or do you want to have the novelty of new-car smell as soon as the incumbent's ashtrays fill up?
                    No ashtray use allowed except for spare change!!! I want some sort of predictable, financial peace of mind when it comes to a car. And, hopefully, some mechanical peace of mind that comes with a new car. New car smell means nothing to me 'cuz my sniffer doesn't work anymore!!!
                    One option might be to purchase all the extended warranties from the dealer or from third-party insurers. When the car's air-conditioning core rots out or its starter motor fails then you've already insured the repair costs. You'd pay a bundle for this much insurance, but at least you're buying peace of mind at a lower price than a lease payment.
                    My car is a 1995 German car and German cars are well known for being costly to maintain. I can't imagine what a warranty of any kind would cost at this point...or if I could even get one. And, my car is only worth in the mid $2000. range. It's not worth investing large amounts into it anymore...altho', to someone wanting to step up to a luxury car at a small cost and willing to take on future repair bills, my car is perfect. At this stage of my life (age and pending retirement) I don't want to spend my money on maintaining cars anymore...altho' I'd go back to a Porsche in a heartbeat if it made any sense!
                    For reliability, you could insure your current car for towing and rental-car replacement. That's an expense (which you're already willing to pay as a lease) and a hassle (just like buying or leasing) but at least the problem might happen less frequently than a three-year leasing/buying concept. If your car doesn't start one day (or leaves you by the side of the road) then you take a taxi and call the mechanic/insurance company. Again not cheap but it satisfies your priorities and it's probably cheaper than leasing.
                    I carry AAA Plus. I also have rental car replacement. And, I really want to cut the odds of my car leaving me by the side of the road...along the Waianae Coast...at night! Fortunately my current car has not done that but it did die in the intersection of Ala Moana and Atkinson and I was able to coast into the AMC parking lot! That can happen to any car, I know!
                    For big unpredictable repair bills, you could start setting aside a monthly repair fund in a money-market account. It'd be the monthly amount you're currently spending on repairs or the amount that you'd be spending on a lease payment. When the big repair happens then you curse as usual, but at least you already have the money on hand. And if the big repair doesn't happen, or if it takes a long time to happen, then you've saved a pile of money toward the purchase of a replacement vehicle.
                    Bottom line is...a have the money for costly repairs. I have the money to buy a new car for cash. But, in this economy I want to keep that money liquid. At this point in my life, I don't want to spend it on maintaining a 15 year old car. Twenty or 30 years ago I would have been ok with that. But, not anymore. Maybe I'm finally getting more practical in my ol' age!
                    For new-car smell, you could consider what you want as the car's original warranty expires and either go buy a replacement new car or start shopping for extended warranties. The advantage of this option is that you have the choice to keep a favored car longer if you want.
                    I'd have that option with a lease car, too. I found it interesting in talking to friends who lease...all are female...and all love it! They love the predictability for budgeting, the tax benefits and they really love turning in their cars at the end of the lease and getting the key to a new car. We didn't discuss new car smell!!!
                    BTW, at fewer than 5000 miles per year it might be worth the added expense to have your trusted mechanic step up the frequency of oil changes, transmission inspections, and engine diagnostics. The hardest miles on a car are the first few miles out of the driveway, and we island residents put more wear & tear on our cars than Mainlanders routinely driving 200 miles/week at 70 MPH.
                    I've always serviced my cars in shorter intervals than recommended...3000 miles vs 5000 miles. My current car is in great shape both inside and out and I've been surprised at the interest already shown in it should I sell!

                    Another goal, Nords, is to reduce my overall car expenses. Once I crunched the numbers on my existing car and passed them by my accountant for approval, it became apparent that I'll be able to achieve this goal even with a lease payment. But not a lease payment on a luxury car...or a Porsche!!!

                    Thanks so much for taking the time to question my motives and offer options. I truly appreciate it. It allowed me to see how much thought I'd already put into this subject without really realizing it!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                      For you knowledgeable HTers...are the following acceptable lease costs and, if so, are any of them negotiable...
                      • "rent charge" (what the leasing company charges for the use of the money...on a purchase it would equate to interest...or so I'm told!)
                      • "acquisition fee" (the charge a finance company charges for acquiring the vehicle, setting up the lease and disposing of the vehicle at lease termination)
                      • "documentation fee" (what should this include?)
                      • "vehicle theft registration"


                      Something interesting I learned from my Googleathon...lemon laws don't apply to leased cars in most states. Hmmm...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                        Originally posted by tutusue View Post
                        For you knowledgeable HTers...are the following acceptable lease costs and, if so, are any of them negotiable...
                        • "rent charge"
                        Often called "Money Factor", yes, it is negotiable

                        "acquisition fee"

                        Negotiable, and I wouldn't pay anything.

                        "documentation fee" (what should this include?)

                        Negotiable, it is the cost the dealer charges for documenting the vehicle
                        • "vehicle theft registration"
                        Never heard of that. Sounds like a bogus charge. You will be required to carry "comprehensive" insurance which includes theft. That's all you need.


                        Something interesting I learned from my Googleathon...lemon laws don't apply to leased cars in most states. Hmmm

                        That shouldn't matter since your vehicle will be under warranty during the lease period, it is just the hassle of taking it in all the time.
                        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                          Mahalo for all the info, Matapule!
                          Originally posted by matapule View Post
                          [...]it is just the hassle of taking it in all the time.
                          Exactly. If that happened I would not be a happy camper at all esp. if the service dept. tried to blame it on something not covered in the warranty. Of course I'd get a 2nd opinion but the hassle of it all is what I want to avoid.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                            All pau...pheeeeeew!

                            It was an interesting week leading up to signing a contract. I so wished Craig worked at an Oahu dealership! I found the Auto Leasing Guide site extremely helpful.

                            I leased a Honda Insight with a down payment and monthly payments I budgeted for. Whatta trip it is...a computer and video game on wheels! After communicating with 3 Oahu dealers, Pflueger got my business. That surprised me because, going into this scenario, they were 3rd on my list (I can't get Kaloko dam out of my head). I liked the salesman, in spite of all that negotiation ca-ca, and he's been so accommodating and helpful. After 4 days I have a whopping 68 miles on the car! Another thing I like about the Insight is it doesn't have an ash tray or lighter. That's the "smoker's package" and must be ordered separately!

                            Oh...and Hawaii does recognize the Lemon Law for leased cars!

                            Now...to sell the old tutumobile!

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                            • #29
                              Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                              The only thing about a lighter is I plug my phone charger in there but they
                              probably have similar capacity. Sounds like you got a great car! Enjoy!

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                              • #30
                                Re: Questions re: leasing a car

                                I forgot about the cell charger/lighter relationship, LL. A year ago I bought a charger that uses AA batteries...the result of a brand new phone, no car charger for it, arriving in Makaha with a drained cell and the wall charger still in town!!! I ended up not buying the car charger like I thought I would. Still, you make a good point. The car does have an aux jack and a usb connection for my iPod. The latter will charge the iPod and it allows the playlists and songs to be viewed on the radio's display. I haven't gotten around to trying that one yet! It's quite a geek shock for an untechie tutu, going from a 1995 car to a 2010 car! Lotsa changes in those 15 years!

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