Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

[Mililani]

If statehood is illegal, would that mean Obama was born outside of America and therefore not able to serve as President of US?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted??

No, because if Hawai`i were not a state at the time of his birth, it would have still been a territory, and thus his birth would make him as legitimate an American as was John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone.

But as we all know, President Obama was "born" simultaneously in Marxist Kenya, Muslim Indonesia, and Planet XB27r-3 in the Bobinator Galaxy, more than 182 years ago, then assembled in Taiwan.

[Mililani]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

LMAO!! Of course he was..

But, you leave me with another question. Hawaii became a territory through annexation. What if annexation was illegal?

[Adri]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

LMAO!! Of course he was..

But, you leave me with another question. Hawaii became a territory through annexation. What if annexation was illegal?

I deeply suspect that the "Hawaii is not a state or was not legally made a part of the US" argument has been tested thoroughly in court (not the least of which for people trying to avoid paying taxes) and that while some people may feel in their hearts that Hawaii was not made a part of the US through legitimate means, as a legal issue it's moot. I think Nevada, Texas and a few other states also have people claiming that their state is not legally a part of the US.

[anapuni808]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

But..............Nevada, Texas & those other plaes were not internationally recognized independent nations, with treaties to protect the country from invasion & takeover. Those other places were part of the continental land mass, not 2500 miles away from it, in the middle of the ocean. Those other places were not invaded & colonized by another country with whom they had a treaty of non-agression. Those other places were not taken over in violation of the US constitution itself.

[Adri]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

But..............Nevada, Texas & those other plaes were not internationally recognized independent nations, with treaties to protect the country from invasion & takeover. Those other places were part of the continental land mass, not 2500 miles away from it, in the middle of the ocean. Those other places were not invaded & colonized by another country with whom they had a treaty of non-agression. Those other places were not taken over in violation of the US constitution itself.

We did have treaties with native american indians, though.

[Mike_Lowery]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

dumb topic keeps getting rehashed.

you Obama haters have nothing else to think about?

[anapuni808]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

We did have treaties with native american indians, though.

How do you make the connection between those treaties and international treaties among internationally recognized independent nations?

[Adri]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

How do you make the connection between those treaties and international treaties among internationally recognized independent nations?

The native american indians were recognized as having their own nations (or nation within a nation status). They were indigenous peoples whose lands were taken to form part of the US just as the native Hawaiians were.

eta: Also, a large part of the claim that Texas is not part of the US legally is that we took the land from Mexico in a phase of US expansionism. We also took land from Mexico along the US Mexico border during the Mexican-American war in the mid 1800s. There are other examples. Hawaii is hardly the only land taken from another nation to form part of the U.S. As a result of the Mexican-American war, the US got California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, and portions of Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma and Kansas.

[Mililani]

dumb topic keeps getting rehashed.

you Obama haters have nothing else to think about?

Are you calling me an Obama hater??? What do you know? If you're not going to at least try to answer the question, then try to keep your comments to yourself. I sure don't wanna hear 'em!

The reason I'm asking:

My son asked the [original] question when I picked him up from school. The kids in school were discussing the statehood and wondering why their school did not recognize it. Somehow the conversation turned to Obama and all the fuss going on about his birth certificate. Then, they wondered about the legalities of Obama being born on US soil or not. My son says the discussion was in good spirits and really interesting.. "a lot of us were saying.. hmm."

[bjd392]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

Unless they're lying about who ate cookies, kids are the most honest and straight-forward when it comes to asking or telling. I admire your child's curiosity and courage to ask the questions that most adults try to shy away from nowadays. Children are not brainwashed (yet) into a concept of political correctness.

(On a second note, if the school doesn't want to recognize statehood, the United States doesn't have to recognize the school... and therefore doesn't have to give it money. There's a lesson in politics.)

[Mililani]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

LOL.. Oh yea, I can never get a straight answer when it comes to cookies!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

The reason I'm asking:

Thanks for telling us that. I thought it was an interesting perspective that hadn't popped up in previous conversations about the President, as it's a perspective that would only come from someone with interest in or knowledge of Hawaiian history. I also thought it (a) deserved an answer, and (b) presented an opportunity for me to dabble in the sillier side of the "birther" debate.

Nice to know that your son and his schoolmates are curious about contemporary political issues AND historical questions - those are the students who will grow up to realize that not everything in "history" is an absolute, that the stories we learn are usually the perspective of the victors/conquerors/political leaders of the time, and that "the other side(s)" can have a legitimate story as well.

Don't know how old your son is, but someday, he should watch the Akira Kurosawa film "Rashomon." It can teach the lesson that there may be many stories told of a moment in time, and that each viewpoint can create a different version of "truth."

As for Mike Lowery's reaction - well, we have seen/heard from a lot of unreasonable "Obama-haters," here on HT as well as in the world, and it can get tiring. Those who were supporters of President Bush should remember how tired they got of his opponents blaming him for everything, and perhaps take a higher road; but it's easier to view it as their opportunity to pile on the blame now. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Adri]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

The reason I'm asking:

My son asked the [original] question when I picked him up from school. The kids in school were discussing the statehood and wondering why their school did not recognize it. Somehow the conversation turned to Obama and all the fuss going on about his birth certificate. Then, they wondered about the legalities of Obama being born on US soil or not. My son says the discussion was in good spirits and really interesting.. "a lot of us were saying.. hmm."

It's wonderful that your son and his friends are thinking about such issues and having good discussions. Regarding Hawaii becoming a state and whether the means was legal, unfortunately, most nations including America go though, at least for a time, the idea that might makes right and being able to defeat other nations or other landholders is how we and the other nations expand our territories since it's really hard to find land that is completely uninhabited and unclaimed by any other nation.

[Mililani]

Re: Grounds for Obama to be ousted?

Thanks for telling us that. I thought it was an interesting perspective that hadn't popped up in previous conversations about the President, as it's a perspective that would only come from someone with interest in or knowledge of Hawaiian history. I also thought it (a) deserved an answer, and (b) presented an opportunity for me to dabble in the sillier side of the "birther" debate.

As for Mike Lowery's reaction - well, we have seen/heard from a lot of unreasonable "Obama-haters," here on HT as well as in the world, and it can get tiring. Those who were supporters of President Bush should remember how tired they got of his opponents blaming him for everything, and perhaps take a higher road; but it's easier to view it as their opportunity to pile on the blame now. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Thank you (and everyone else) for the input!

My son is 16 and will sometimes come up with questions I have thought about but have not really tried to find the answer. He is the type of person that doesn't like to take anyone's word as "truth" unless he can prove it one way or the other. It is difficult for him sometimes because he'll read one thing.. then something else that totally contradicts what he just read. I will have him watch Rashomon, though. Sounds like something he would like to see.

For the record, I voted for Obama and I still support him (even when I hear people blame him about this or that). The latest I heard, since the health care reform, was that Obama is to be blamed for the oil spill. Oh Emm Gee! LOL

I should have made it clear in my original post that I was an Obama supporter, but I was just thinking of getting the question posted.