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Thread: Waipio Little League

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    ...and what about ALL the soccer, softball, baseball, volleyball, and wrestling teams that competed on the mainland this year? Why no equal love for them?
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

  2. #27

    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    Oh geez. Can't we all just be happy for the Waipio little leaguers in this thread? Why turn this discussion into a grievance for some other team?
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    I agree, FM. However I would like to address Scriv's reply...
    Scriv...if the teams you mentioned did, in fact, go to the mainland to successfully compete at the national and international level and could've brought a lot a positive publicity and attention to Hawaii and Hawaii's youth then I agree with you. They should've received the same attention as the WLL team.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    Exactly! We go the extra mile to support teams that win. THAT's why I've been rooting for the teams to lose. If we truly think that competition at this level is about building character, I think our young men and women have more to gain by losing.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

  5. #30

    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    Sometimes, scrivener, the unusual ways your mind works make a lot of sense to me.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    Since there's no NFL pro bowl next year. The Waipio run was good advertisement for Hawaii.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    Just some thoughts, comments, and reactions from what I have read:

    1) I suppose in a perfect world, every single endeavor and activity involving young people would be recognized equally and given the same amount of public recognition and media coverage. But that's not the reality. The Little League World Series gets more attention than does Babe Ruth League or American Legion tournaments. The Scripps National Spelling Bee is nationally televised, while the National Forenic League's Speech and Debate competition is not. Is that fair? Maybe not. But that's life. The reality is that certain events command greater attention from the public than do others. Maybe a certain event is older and carries more tradition. Or perhaps certain types of competition make for better drama on TV. Whatever the case, not every single sport, competition, and endeavor captures the same amount of attention and recognition. Just as not every occupation/job offers the same amount of pay and prestige. It may not be fair, but that's life.

    2) Dovetailing with #1 is dealing with the reality that the local media can't provide coverage for every single competition/tournament on the mainland involving a Hawaii team. Some events are bound to either not be reported, or to only get a short blurb. The only way to achieve "perfect" equality in media coverage is to simply not report any of it. An elegant solution for the wet blanket crowd, I'm sure.

    3) The idea that one somehow gains "more" from losing than winning when it comes to character building is dubious, at best. Coaches who have a knack for winning aren't all bad people. I defy anyone to say that John Wooden wasn't able to instill positive values and ethics into his players at UCLA, even while winning 10 national titles. The same goes for Vince Lombardi and his Green Bay Packers of the '60s.

    Conversely, just because a coach has an average or a losing record doesn't automatically ensure that they exert a positive influence on the morals and personalities of their players. From personal experience and observation of the high school and college scene, I can think of many examples of the latter.

    Just my opinion.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Is that fair? Maybe not. But that's life. The reality is that certain events command greater attention from the public than do others.
    I agree, but just as the media is going to give coverage to those certain events and that's their business (literally) and right, it's also mine to take exception to the overemphasis we place on success in sports, especially when compared to other things. I'm not telling anyone else not to root for whomever they wish to root for. I'm merely explaining why I won't do it. That's fair, right?

    3) The idea that one somehow gains "more" from losing than winning when it comes to character building is dubious, at best. Coaches who have a knack for winning aren't all bad people. I defy anyone to say that John Wooden wasn't able to instill positive values and ethics into his players at UCLA, even while winning 10 national titles. The same goes for Vince Lombardi and his Green Bay Packers of the '60s.
    Oh, I believe much can be learned from winning, and I don't have a problem with that. My problem, as I believe I made clear here and in the Ewa Beach thread a few years ago, is that when we treat the winners of this event with parades and when we use words like "heroic" to describe their efforts (serious? heroic?) and when we glorify the quitting of jobs for the sake of what is at its heart just a game, we teach our young men and women to overvalue success on the field of play.

    When you add to that the fact that the fundraising is really to help pay for the parents who went on this trip (not the players' or coaches' expenses, which are paid by the league), I think someone needs to say something. I would like to remind you that NCAA basketball and the NFL are businesses; they do what they do to make money, so even if NOTHING was EVER learned by the men who played for the teams you mention, I wouldn't have a problem with it. When our young men and women in the Little League lose, they come home to applause and praise. Hawaii handles losing very well (except when it comes to UH football, really); when our teams lose, we teach our kids that we're supporting them no matter what the outcome. I don't expect anyone to agree (believe me!), but I believe I have a fair point.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

  9. #34

    Default Re: Waipio Little League

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I agree, but just as the media is going to give coverage to those certain events and that's their business (literally) and right, it's also mine to take exception to the overemphasis we place on success in sports, especially when compared to other things. I'm not telling anyone else not to root for whomever they wish to root for. I'm merely explaining why I won't do it. That's fair, right?
    It is fair, not that that was ever an issue to begin with. As I prefaced my previous post, everything I said were my personal thoughts, opinions, and reactions. Just as you used this forum to state your own viewpoints.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    When you add to that the fact that the fundraising is really to help pay for the parents who went on this trip (not the players' or coaches' expenses, which are paid by the league), I think someone needs to say something.
    Fine, you're entitled to this POV.

    But just to make things clear, as far as the LL'ers parents are concerned.

    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/...asp?S=13138337

    The families were willing to pay that price for a once in a lifetime experience. And they're stunned by the show of support that they didn't expect, and didn't ask for.

    "We're still in shock at how much people are supporting our team and how much they're giving," said Noah's mom, Joy Shackles.

    "I would never have expected something like this. It's phenomenal," Dean Shackles said.
    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I would like to remind you that NCAA basketball and the NFL are businesses; they do what they do to make money, so even if NOTHING was EVER learned by the men who played for the teams you mention, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
    Oh, I could have made the same point using youth baseball figures like Manju Nitta or Pal Eldredge. It's just that those names won't have much meaning to anyone who is not familiar with the local baseball scene. I figured that names like Wooden and Lombardi would offer clarity to those readers.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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