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Thread: What is patriotism?

  1. #1
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    Default What is patriotism?

    The following is from Factcheck.org:

    ************************************************** ***
    Patriotism Falsely Impugned

    Democratic Rep. Grayson wrongly says that his opponent 'refused' Vietnam service; claims he 'doesn't love this country.'

    September 22, 2010





    Summary

    Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson of Florida is falsely accusing his opponent of evading the Vietnam War draft, claiming "he doesn’t love this country."

    Republican candidate Daniel Webster didn't "refuse the call to service," as claimed in a vicious TV ad featuring pictures of military graves and the sound of "Taps" being played on a bugle. In fact, the former Florida Senate majority leader was given routine student deferments until he completed his undergraduate degree. He then reported for a military physical and was disqualified for medical reasons.

    *************************************

    I refused service in the Vietnam War. I didn't have any medical deferments. I served (as well as uaifi) in the Peace Corps in the Kingdom of Tonga as an alternative. I still bristle when anyone (Democrat or Republican) might accuse me of being unpatriotic because of my alternative service, - especially those who have never served in the military or Peace Corps. It has nothing to do with "love of country." Sometimes it means that you love your country more than just blindly following. Sometimes, it is more patriotic to say, "hell no, I wont go!"
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    With you there, Matapule.

    Saying 'My country right or wrong' is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'
    Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Patriotism to me is to love your country. Proud to be American.
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Just another nebulous ism. You can't really pin any of them down because not everyone agrees on their meanings, but you can draw meaningless distinctions between 'em ad infinitum. Proud to be aware that my planet is never wrong!
    Last edited by salmoned; September 24th, 2010 at 12:29 AM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  5. #5

    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Patriotism is probably biological. Its another of those emotions probably with its cause as an evolutionary advantage--the herd instinct. Loyalty to the tribe, to the kingdom, to the modern state. Humans really can't live outside of a society, at least not the vast majority of us who depend on a society in order to survive. Its an ancient emotional drive, its quite useful in organizing to dominate and exploit resources or to defend against attack.

    Even knowing that, I am subject to it myself. I got teary eyed at Mt. Rushmore. I was in awe of the spectacle of beautiful Lady Liberty holding her torch of light and hope out to the world, to the downtrodden and oppressed, at one end of New York Harbor, and the fantastic wealthy powerful great city those oppressed people built, at the other end. America at its best is truly wonderful. Look how well the Marshall Plan worked out, or the GI Bill, good decent acts created in good spirit which produced good, even more good. I love America. I love our Bill of Rights, I love our inheritance of English common law and our presumption of innocence, I love a country where ideally you really are free to live as you desire, to rise as high as your skills and desires take you. So when I see that incredibly valuable heritage being abused or ignored, it drives me crazy. I do think the Vietnam War was exactly the kind of war that drove millions of Europeans to migrate over here, you were the property of petty princes who had no problem slaughtering countless peasants, the poor and downtrodden, for their own petty vanity or greed. Iraq, no question a war for greed. Afghanistan, perhaps so, too, with all those trillions of dollars worth of minerals. I wish the American people treasured what they've got here, and demanded, insisted, that the leadership protect it--not abuse the Bill of Rights, but actually advance it. I really hope its not a case of pearls before swine.

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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    Patriotism to me is to love your country. Proud to be American.
    Proud To Be An American!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV_cX_vio6U&feature=fvw
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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    But he "was disqualified for medical reasons". What does it have to do with patriotism?
    Greg

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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    But he "was disqualified for medical reasons". What does it have to do with patriotism?
    That's my point, it doesn't. However he could have accepted alternative service. If service in the military is the criteria for patriotism, then there are a lot of unpatriotic people on this forum.

    Service in the military has nothing to do with patriotism. I have some relatives who served in the military and their patriotic duty was to crawl from one brothel to the next in the Philippines.

    Sometimes it might be more patriotic to refuse service in an unjust war.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    To be Patriotic, I believe, is to support the best interests of the region in which you live, despite what others may do.

    Using 'green' energy is patriotic, as is defending your country against invaders. Teaching children lasting values, monitoring your government, etc.

    I don't ascribe to 'blind patriotism,' (my country right or wrong). Being patriotic means straightening out your country when it has gone wrong - as it has recently.

    We flunked our final exam!

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  10. #10

    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    We flunked our final exam!
    "Final"? Let's hope not; it's an on-going process and there's still time to learn more and correct our work.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    Being patriotic means straightening out your country when it has gone wrong - as it has recently.

    We flunked our final exam!
    This is no time for pessimism. I am filled with joy and hope for the future! Finding the path to righteousness is a (to use my psychologist daughter's favorite word) "continuum." We HAVE made progress and better times are ahead as a result. It is impossible, in a country as diverse as ours, to turn a switch and everything is fine the next day. It is going to take work and lots of it. Speak out! Don't let propagandists speak lies. Lies that are repeated eventually become the "truth." One of the most egregious recent examples is Germany in the 1930's. Questioning one's patriotism based on military service is one of those lies.

    Speak out! There is work to be done!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  12. #12
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    Post Re: What is patriotism?

    To me a 'Patriotic' person holds to sincere opinions on many issues that their society faces.
    Then does something towards following their convictions.
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  13. #13
    Nobunaga Guest

    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    The following is from Factcheck.org:

    ************************************************** ***
    Patriotism Falsely Impugned

    Democratic Rep. Grayson wrongly says that his opponent 'refused' Vietnam service; claims he 'doesn't love this country.'

    September 22, 2010





    Summary

    Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson of Florida is falsely accusing his opponent of evading the Vietnam War draft, claiming "he doesn’t love this country."

    Republican candidate Daniel Webster didn't "refuse the call to service," as claimed in a vicious TV ad featuring pictures of military graves and the sound of "Taps" being played on a bugle. In fact, the former Florida Senate majority leader was given routine student deferments until he completed his undergraduate degree. He then reported for a military physical and was disqualified for medical reasons.
    *************************************

    I refused service in the Vietnam War. I didn't have any medical deferments. I served (as well as uaifi) in the Peace Corps in the Kingdom of Tonga as an alternative. I still bristle when anyone (Democrat or Republican) might accuse me of being unpatriotic because of my alternative service, - especially those who have never served in the military or Peace Corps. It has nothing to do with "love of country." Sometimes it means that you love your country more than just blindly following. Sometimes, it is more patriotic to say, "hell no, I wont go!"
    Hi Matapule,
    I went to Vietnam on TDY in 1964, before the escallation of the US involvement by President Johnson. It was good duty then, with the job I had, and very few Americans were getting killed.

    If it became a real war then, I would have gone and fought if I was ordered to, because of the oath I took upon my enlistment in the US Army, that I would "defend my country against all enemies, domestic or foriegn," I don't know if I would have been brave if my life was on the line, because I never experienced that situation.

    When I went to Vietnam, the US had more military men in Korea than we had in Nam. I think we had about 15,000 there in 1964. Those who went there after 1966 caught hell, and the big Tet Offensive took place in 1968.
    Nobu

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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    because of the oath I took upon my enlistment in the US Army, that I would "defend my country against all enemies, domestic or foriegn,"
    In good conscience, I cannot take that oath because I don't get to define who the "enemies" are. That oath is just another form of "my country, right or wrong." I can't do it. I won't do it. And I refuse to be labeled "unpatriotic" because of it. I would have served in WWII, but not in Viet Nam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Many of my high school buddies died in Viet Nam. For what?
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  15. #15
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    Default Re: What is patriotism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    To be Patriotic, I believe, is to support the best interests of the region in which you live, despite what others may do.
    K!
    Glad I'm not very patriotic, else I would be compelled to rid my region (city, county, state, country, planet - choose any or all) of as much human protoplasm as possible - the sheer quantity of it (not to mention poor quality) is the greatest threat to my region's interests. Soylent Green or liver with fava beans, anyone?
    Last edited by salmoned; October 2nd, 2010 at 11:47 AM.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

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