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  • #16
    Re: The most dangerous drug

    Originally posted by acousticlady View Post
    [...]
    We have much more of a problem in our society with the legal drugs.[...]

    Then we have the drugged up seniors. OMG . They are on more drugs than the kids. Most of the drugs they are taking are to counteract the side effects of the previous drug that they probably didn't need in the first place. (yes, yes, I know - true for everyone but you - 'cause in your case, you really need it.......)[...]
    You've hit a home run, and touched a nerve, with both these statements. I've always been one to question any prescription and have no problem refusing to take a med after researching the side effects the docs don't mention. I've come to the conclusion that, for me, western, or allopathic, drugs do nothing but poison my body. I've had too many experiences to validate that. And, the practice of adding drugs to counter side effects is just plain nuts. Oops, 2nd drug caused a problem? Well, here's a 3rd drug to counter the side effect of the 2nd drug that's countering the side effect of the first drug. Ad infinitum. My PCP and I are in total disagreement over this subject!

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    • #17
      Re: The most dangerous drug

      Originally posted by acousticlady View Post
      We have much more of a problem in our society with the legal drugs.
      I will no longer drink a diet soda or anything with artificial sweetener. I believe that they are just more drugs that were never approved by the FDA.
      Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

      People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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      • #18
        Re: The most dangerous drug

        http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

        Greg, check the link. The numbers are quite surprising.

        Ciggys 435,000
        Alcohol 85,000
        Drugs 17,000

        But the real question is how many smokers have wrecked their cars after going 24 hours WITHOUT a cigarette?
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        • #19
          Re: The most dangerous drug

          Originally posted by timkona View Post
          http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

          Greg, check the link. The numbers are quite surprising.

          Ciggys 435,000
          I looked. My problem with your posting is that it is phrased in a misleading way. "Most lethal drug" would ordinarily mean "drug which is most likely to kill you if you take it". Obviously, if you ranked how lethal various drugs are in this ordinary sense, tobacco would be way, way far down on the list, if it even counts as a drug at all.
          Greg

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          • #20
            Re: The most dangerous drug

            LOL. Ciggys not a drug. LOL
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            • #21
              Re: The most dangerous drug

              Originally posted by GregLee View Post
              I looked. My problem with your posting is that it is phrased in a misleading way. "Most lethal drug" would ordinarily mean "drug which is most likely to kill you if you take it". Obviously, if you ranked how lethal various drugs are in this ordinary sense, tobacco would be way, way far down on the list, if it even counts as a drug at all.
              That's where my line of thinking is too. For the many of us who partake in one or more of the following "drug" habits, such as coffee, nicotine, alcohol, aspirin, etc., these aren't things that will kill us if done once, or even in moderation.

              The big fears that are out there are the "one-time-changes-everything" drugs that have permanent effects. LSD, PCP, (and with all those commercials of the Hawaii Project ) and meth come to mind as things that can and have killed on the first dose, or sometime shortly thereafter, if not permanently screws you up.

              Regarding this legal drug scenario, there's a difference between having the drug be used properly, and intentionally misusing it for recreational or unlawful means. Coricidin was pointed out years ago on 20/20 as a drug that kids crave (and I remember being given Coricidin as an alternative to Bayer as a kid when I had headaches) because it has a sweet outer coating, much like candy. Having headache meds or vitamins or other prescription medications is not illegal, but sometimes we have to wonder if taking them is even necessary, depending on the ailment. I prefer not to take medicine for headaches, unless absolutely necessary. But even then, most of my tylenol expires before I get a chance to use it.

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              • #22
                Re: The most dangerous drug

                Nearly 1/2 million deaths PER YEAR just isn't enough for you guys. I'd say the insidious way that ciggys sneak up on a person over the long haul is way more sinister than the instant heart attack of a coke binge.

                The numbers are what they are. You guys are eating the War on Drugs propaganda like it's PEZ. Government loves people like you guys.
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                Energy answers are already here.

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                • #23
                  Re: The most dangerous drug

                  Originally posted by bjd392 View Post
                  That's where my line of thinking is too. For the many of us who partake in one or more of the following "drug" habits, such as coffee, nicotine, alcohol, aspirin, etc., these aren't things that will kill us if done once, or even in moderation.
                  Actually, that is not what scientific research shows. The items mentioned above can cause slow death over time, even in moderation.

                  The problem in this thread is that people are talking about different things. We are not all on the same page. Tim's point is that cigarettes are the leading cause of death compared to other substances. I think we can all agree that the statistics prove that this is true...at this time....if we limit it to that point.
                  Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                  People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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                  • #24
                    Re: The most dangerous drug

                    Originally posted by matapule View Post
                    I think we can all agree that the statistics prove that this is true...
                    No, not me. I don't have the expertise to dispute it, but I'm suspicious of all the interpretation involved in those statistical conclusions (they are hardly statistics). I couldn't get to the underlying reference in Tim's link, but the following slightly more recent version goes into more detail about where the numbers come from: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5745a3.htm. And I'll just make the obvious point that if you looked at the death certificates of these hundreds of thousands of people supposedly killed by tobacco, you would never see tobacco listed as the cause of death.
                    Greg

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                    • #25
                      Re: The most dangerous drug

                      Originally posted by matapule View Post
                      Actually, that is not what scientific research shows. The items mentioned above can cause slow death over time, even in moderation.
                      Even living kills us over time.

                      I'm thinking if partaking in things like coffee and alcohol slowly kills us, it may lower our life expectancy again and thus not have to raise the retirement age

                      If people complain that drugs prematurely kill us, some can also complain that medical drugs are allowing us to live too long.

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                      • #26
                        Re: The most dangerous drug

                        Originally posted by GregLee View Post
                        if you looked at the death certificates of these hundreds of thousands of people supposedly killed by tobacco, you would never see tobacco listed as the cause of death.
                        I don't think a death certificate will mention something like that. It's always some technical term. A friend I knew for a long time was a habitual smoker, and he died of a heart attack in his sleep. We all knew it was the effects of smoking for over 50 years, but the death certificate only said "myocardial infarction." Everyone else can imply that it was "brought on by decades of smoking."

                        But the same can be said about DUI deaths as well. It'll be mentioned as "blunt trauma to the ..." or some other impact description, but won't mention alcohol.

                        One of the few occasions where alcohol will be mentioned in a death certificate is if the actual death came from a binge overdose. Otherwise, the habitual alcoholic will be listed as "cirrhosis of the liver" or some other affected organ failure.

                        Similarly, it is agreed that death certificates do have an under-reporting of the layman's term of what killed someone. Researchers who use death certificate statistics won't get their numbers from there; they would have to get it from the police reports or medical examiner reports, and not the block on the certificate stating "cause of death."

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                        • #27
                          Re: The most dangerous drug

                          Originally posted by bjd392 View Post
                          Researchers who use death certificate statistics won't get their numbers from there; they would have to get it from the police reports or medical examiner reports, and not the block on the certificate stating "cause of death."
                          If you read the reference I gave, you will see that the numbers we are discussing that are given for causes of death also do not come from police reports or medical examiner reports.
                          Greg

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                          • #28
                            Re: The most dangerous drug

                            Originally posted by GregLee View Post
                            And I'll just make the obvious point that if you looked at the death certificates of these hundreds of thousands of people supposedly killed by tobacco, you would never see tobacco listed as the cause of death.
                            That's true. To use an anecdotal example. My father smoked for over 30 years. Then 30 years after he quit, he contracted two different forms of cancer, neither of them lung cancer. His physician told me they were the result of smoking - 30 years ago. He later died of "natural causes" but his body was ravaged by the cancer.
                            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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                            • #29
                              Re: The most dangerous drug

                              @Greg.
                              Right, the article doesn't refer to police or medical reports. Yes, I did quote you in the beginning of my response. However, the last paragraph of my post you were referring to was meant to be the a continuation of my topic of alcohol, DUIs or (not mentioned) curious deaths. So I apologize if that sounded like a disagreement on your smoking issue posting or article.

                              Having some familiarity with police reports (mostly traffic related), the officer will put in alcohol as a primary collision factor if it is deemed so by toxicology. The death certificate may only say "blunt trauma..."

                              But I also agree with you in the sense that smoking is merely a shadow when it comes to some of the under-reporting of the issue.

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                              • #30
                                Re: The most dangerous drug

                                Cool Stats Greg. Great page. Sort of jives with the numbers in that other page.

                                435,000 Smoking Attributable Deaths, give or take.

                                Looking at a few different statistic based website, I found that they all agree, more or less, on a number of about 20,000 illicit drug related deaths per year in the USA. Even if you pretend that the numbers are somehow skewed by 50%, it's still overwhelming evidence that ciggys are numero uno.

                                To argue that ciggys are NOT the most dangerous drug is akin to the argument that goes like this.....

                                Please do not confuse me with facts or statistics. I have already decided.
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                                Energy answers are already here.

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