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Thread: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

  1. #1

    Default A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Would anybody be interested in trying a thread in the Hawaiian language? Or about the Hawaiian language? It could be anything at all, from asking questions about the language to writing on any topic in it. E oluolu, kou mana'o, which I hope means please, your opinion.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Yes, I would be.

    I'll start with this. In Captain Cook's journal, he mentioned Kamehameha. But the words he used was something like Tama'a ma'a.

    Which makes me wonder, which one is more correct?

    We like to say Kamehameha is correct, but we can list other examples of how Missionaries or people during the plantation days chop up and translate the words pretty bad. Like last names Ah-Soon, Ah Sing, Ah Mok Sang. Maybe not good examples, but anyhow.

    The word Ka and Ta sounds different. Most part of Polynesia uses the words T instead of K. So could some of the Hawaii words be "wrong?"

    Any comments to add?

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    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    The word Ka and Ta sounds different. Most part of Polynesia uses the words T instead of K. So could some of the Hawaii words be "wrong?"

    Any comments to add?
    You are correct. Tongan is the one polynesian dialect that relies most heavily on the K sound. Capt. Cook visited Tonga before his last fateful trip to Hawai'i. I'll take your word that Cook called the king Tama'a ma'a, but it was common in those early days for Palangi's (foreigners) to get the sounds all mixed up. Yet, the Hawaiian language is full of the K sound - kai and makai for example. I would be interested on how the king's name evolved to the popular spelling today. I would guess (I'm not a scholar)that the correct spelling of his name was Kamea mea. I wouldn't rely too heavily on Cook's logs.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

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  4. #4

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I would be interested on how the king's name evolved to the popular spelling today. I would guess (I'm not a scholar)that the correct spelling of his name was Kamea mea.
    Part of the problem is the definition of "correct spelling." Remember that `olelo Hawai`i was not a written language at that time, only oral; the written form and the pi`apa were developed by foreign missionaries, not by the kanaka maoli themselves. Thus, there would have been no "correct spelling" of Kamehameha's name at that time - every written version has origins created by non-Hawaiians.

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    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Another question.

    In English, I can take any two words and put it together.

    Dog + Food = Dog Food. That would be correct.

    Is it correct in Hawaiian?

    Wai - Water

    Luna - Boss/Manager

    But there is no such word as Wailuna. Again, my example may not be the best, but I hope you can see the question

    Are new words added to the Hawaiian language? Can and should it be added? How far back should be start or stop?

    When the foreigners arrived, there were new items that Hawaiians never seen before, so how did they described it? Creating a word? Or piece it together? If so, who decided back then? A Chief? How did it became "official?"



    .

  6. #6

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    Are new words added to the Hawaiian language?
    Yes - there are a number of linguistic experts in Hawai`i who are constantly keeping the language alive, active and contemporary. Chief among them is Keola Donaghy at UH/Hilo. He's also been working with Google in recent years, to make Hawaiian a viable search language.

  7. #7

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Ka= The, Mehameha=Solitary or lonely, Kamehameha, the lonely or solitary one.
    (Ke = the for words beginning with K, E, A, O; na = the plural)

    Hawaiian as a living language adds new words, for example...
    Ka'a = car
    Lekio = Radio (Leo= Voice, so Leo Lekio = Radio Voice)
    Kiwi = TV
    Lolu Uila = Brain Electric = Computer

    I think you can combine the concepts of dog, ilio, with food, mea 'ai, into mea 'ai ilio, I think thats correct, but for clarity it might be better to call it mea 'ai no ka ilio, food for the dog.

  8. #8

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    Lekio = Radio (Leo= Voice, so Leo Lekio = Radio Voice)
    Or "Lakio" - and now you know the translation of my HT moniker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    Lolu Uila = Brain Electric = Computer
    Also accepted is the transliteration of the English word into "kamepuila."

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    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I would be interested on how the king's name evolved to the popular spelling today. I would guess (I'm not a scholar)that the correct spelling of his name was Kamea mea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Part of the problem is the definition of "correct spelling." Remember that `olelo Hawai`i was not a written language at that time, only oral; the written form and the pi`apa were developed by foreign missionaries,
    Leo, of course you are right. There was no written language prior to the missionaries. I didn't explain myself clearly. My guess is that the Kings name was pronounced, Kameamea. The "meha" in the written form is very unusual and my guess is that the missionaries didn't spell the pronunciation correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    When the foreigners arrived, there were new items that Hawaiians never seen before, so how did they described it? Creating a word? Or piece it together? If so, who decided back then? A Chief? How did it became "official?"
    As explained to me, it was all of the above. For example, when the first Europeans arrived in Tonga, the Tongans had never seen a tall ship or a light skinned person before. The Tongans had to invent a word. They thought that the ship's masts "touched the sky" and that the occupants were some sort of Gods from the sky. Consequently the word to describe Europeans was palangi from pa = "touch" and langi = "sky."

    Other words were transliterations. For example sikaleti = "cigarette" or uaifi = "wife."

    Yet other words were descriptive. For example, an outboard motor for a boat became misinifakapipiki.......misini = "machine", faka = "(a word modifier) of the type", pipiki = "outside."

    That shoulld thoroughly confuse things!
    Last edited by matapule; November 30th, 2010 at 11:45 AM.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

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  10. #10

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    I keia kakahiaka ua ike au i elua hoku lele.
    This morning I saw 2 shooting stars.

    Ua akaaka o ka lewa, no laila ua ike au i Hoku Pa'a, Na Hiku, a me Hoku Le'a ki'eki'e maluna o ke kulanakauhale.
    The sky was clear so I saw Polaris, The Big Dipper, and Arcturus high above the city.

    Ua anuanu o ke kakahiaka, aka malie.
    The morning was cold but peaceful.

  11. #11

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    When Hawaiians first saw British ships they called them Moku, meaning island. It came to mean Ship. When airplanes were developed they came to be called Flying Ships, Mokulele. And airport, Kahua Mokulele, base for flying ships.

    Another modernized concept is Shopping Center, Kikowaena Ku-'ai, center (of) shopping. So you can kalaiwa (drive) your ka'a i(to) ke kikowaena ku-'ai.

    Kalaiwa au, I drive
    Ke kalaiwa nei 'oe, you are driving.
    Ke kalaiwa nei oia i ke kikowaena ku-'ai, he/she is driving to the shopping center.

    You can also kalaiwa i kahakai, drive to the beach. Hele wawae i kula, walk to school. Holo i ka panako, run to the bank.

  12. #12

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Kekahi mau mea i kahakai
    Some things at the beach

    One, sand
    one wela, hot sand
    laupapa, reef
    akoakoa, coral
    limu, seaweed
    kawele, towel
    lole 'au'au, swimsuit
    aila pale la-, sunscreen
    makaaniani la-, sunglasses
    nalu, wave
    mea he'e nalu, surfer
    papa he'e nalu, surfboard
    wa'apa, boat
    pe'a, sail (n)
    muhe'e, squid
    nai'a, dolphin
    kohola-, whale
    niu, coconut

    Ua komo au ka'u lole 'au'au hou i kahakai, I wore my new swimsuit at the beach.

    Ua he'e nalu o Kawika i kona papa he'e nalu hou, Kawika surfed his new surfboard.

    Ua moku ko'u wawae i ke akoakoa, I cut my foot on the coral.

    Makemake au e moe i ka malu o na niu i kahakai, I like to lie in the shade of coconut trees at the beach.

    Makemake is one of the handiest words, meaning to want or like.

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    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    Kekahi mau mea i kahakai
    Some things at the beach.
    About 1/3 of the words have the same meaning in Tongan.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  14. #14

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    I have not seen the guy in a few years, but I knew a guy who was half Tongan, half Norwiegan, related to the Tongan royal family. He did massage and naturopathy here in SD, a very mellow guy. I'd bring up images of Tonga on Google Images, he had a story for just about every place that came up.

    When you think about the distances involved, the difficulty and infrequency of travel, its amazing there is as much similarity among Pacific languages as there is.

    The word for breast and for milk in Hawaiian is waiu-. Somewhere I read that the word for breast is the most similar among different languages.

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    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    I have not seen the guy in a few years, but I knew a guy who was half Tongan, half Norwiegan, related to the Tongan royal family.
    Every Tongan is realted to the Royal family (wink, wink). There were three different branches of the Royal Family with only one family being dominant.

    The word for breast and for milk in Hawaiian is waiu-.
    In Tongan, it is huhu.

    K, check your PM.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  16. #16

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Kekahi mau mea i ka ma-la
    Some things in the garden

    Mau'u, grass
    Ohe, bamboo
    Mai'a, banana
    Melia, plumeria
    Awapuhi, ginger
    Ki, Ti
    Okika, orchid
    Kupukupu, general ferns
    Kumu la'au, tree
    Mea kanu, a plant
    Pama, palm
    Niu, coconut palm

    Ulu maika'i o na- mea kanu i ka- Keoni ma-la
    Grow well the plants in Keoni's garden

    Ulu nui na niu i ka paka
    Grow many coconut palms in the park

    I think this is all correct, I try. Interesting at all?

  17. #17

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Kekahi mau mea maloko o ka hale
    Some things inside the house

    Papahele, floor
    Kaupoku, ceiling or roof
    Hikie'e, couch
    Moe, Kahi Moe, bed
    Noho, chair
    Lumi Kuke, kitchen
    Lumi Ho'okipa, living room
    Lumi Moe, bedroom
    Pahu Hau, refrigerator
    Lua, Lumi Ho'opau Pilikia, bathroom
    Moena, carpet
    Kapa, blanket
    Uluna, pillow

    Hiamoe o Luka i ka noho, Luka sleeps in the chair
    Ke hamohamo nei na keiki i ka popoki i ka lumi ho'okipa,
    the children are petting the cat in the living room
    He mau pia anuanu maloko o ka pahu hau
    Some cold beers are inside the refrigerator
    E ho'oponopono ana au i ke kaupoku i ka la apopo.
    I will fix the roof tomorrow

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    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    What are the grammar rules in Hawaiian? Is the sentence structure similar to English? Female or male nouns, or is it a non gender language? I've always wondered about these things, and would be very interested to learn more, if someone doesn't mind answering. The Hawaiian dictionaries online are rather confusing.

    Can't think of anything creative this time


  19. #19

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Usually the verb comes at the start of the phrase,
    hele au i ke kuai hale
    go I to the store

    Its gender neutral, kane applies to male anything and wahine to female anything, so...
    popoki kane, tomcat
    kohola- wahine, female whale

    Ua is past tense
    ke (verb) nei is present tense
    e (verb) ana is future tense

    you have particles that name subjects or show direction
    o shows a subject, ua hele O Kale i kahakai, Kale went to the beach
    and i = to in that case.

    One of the handiest dictionaries is the Illustrated Hawaiian Dictionary by Kahikahealani Wight, it not only defines words, it uses them in sentences and expressions so you get a better understanding of the structure. Luana au i ke ao mai o ka olelo Hawai'i. (Enjoy I the learning of the Hawaiian language)

  20. #20

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    He pouli ka mahina i ke-ia po.
    An eclipse of the moon tonight.

    No "to be" verb, its amazing how well you can get along without it.

    E nana oe i ka pouli ka mahina i ke-ia po?
    Will you watch the eclipse of the moon tonight?

  21. #21

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Ua nana ma-kou i ka pa'ani popeku o Hawai'i ame Tulsa i ke kiwi, ua manaka- nui ia. Ua lanakila o Tulsa. Kaumaha, ua pa'ani maika'i'ole ka- Hawai'i kimi--ke kua hapaha Hawai'i. Ua hiamoe au i ka hapaha eha. Aka-, ua maika'i ke ike i Hawai'i hou.

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    Talking Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    About 1/3 of the words have the same meaning in Tongan.
    From what I have been led to understand all the Polynesian languages are related much in the same way as Spanish, French and Italian (the so-called 'romance languages') are.

    Linguistic drift happens relatively quickly, to a separation of a mere 100 years will produce different words for the same thing and differences in dialect and pronunciation.

    A simple example: Tahiti is known in Hawai`i as Kahiki. The more and longer the separation, either through distance or politics, the more differences there will be.

    I have great difficulty with languages other than my own - being one of those who have a hard time reconfiguring my thoughts to fit different grammars. So I'll just watch.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  23. #23

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Hau'oli Makahiki Hou

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    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Fakafiefie ihe ta'u fo'o
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  25. #25

    Default Re: A Hawaiian Language Thread?

    Ku'e kanawai o ka 'o-lelo ana i ke kelepona lawe lima oiai kalaiwa ana. He kanawai maika'i, pono maliu i ke kalaiwa ana o na mea kanaiwa.
    Last edited by Kalalau; January 1st, 2011 at 11:55 AM.

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