Arizona congresswoman shot

[Menehune Man]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

1)The National Guard is an armed domestic militia. A bunch of gun-loving nuts is not.
2)Then consider yourself having an advantage over me. You are also probably younger and better looking too. BFD!
3)That was a snarky comment and un-called for. I know many good Republicans who don't carry guns.

1) That's true, but then again 'our' National Guard is mostly off fighting a war outside the States presently. Leaving 'us' in more danger here at home from natural or man-made problems.
And separate 'militias' don't help the general public... very self centered folk.

2) I don't own a gun presently. This may not be in my best interest since owning one might help in certain situations. Hmmmm

3) As with everything else... there's the 'haves' and 'have nots'.

[Kalalau]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

I remember the (its so hard not to cuss here)...holes who brandished automatics at appearances of President Obama and other officials the summer before last. Bullies out to intimidate, nothing less. Why didn't they intimidate the supreme ct when it gave the presidency to that little idiot bush? Granted the weapons were unloaded but the intent was obvious. The right wing militia types had some perspective, some sanity knocked into them by the Oklahoma City federal building bombing mass murders but the lesson seems to have worn off, they think brandishing automatic weapons, unloaded, at a presidential appearance is just free speech. If it is, its making a truly horrible statement about the person.

[cabanalane]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

"During his campaign effort to unseat Gifford in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly (a Tea Bagger) held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event. "

************************************************** *****

Bizarre and irresponsible! In my opinion this guy is just as wacko as the shooter in this case. How that congressional contest could have even been close shows how out of touch about 50% of the Arizona voters are in that district!

When you can't win by votes.....

Yes, this gunman acted alone. It's not hard to find some hard-core crazy guy and press his buttons. The email spams are still going around.

So what happens now? A special election? Kelly for Congress? Does John MC still have enough $$$$ to back Kelly again? Even if Gifford get's a miracle recovery, she working career (at anything) is over.

[cabanalane]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

This was what SarahPac.com had on their website.







It wasn't enough for Palin to simply list those 20 Democrats she opposed in last year's mid-term elections. She used gunsights on that graphic.



And yes, Gifford's name is among those targeted.

People follow her not because she is educated. Only because it's easier on the eyes.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Ron, I have a sneaky suspicion that you and I agree on a lot of stuff.

Of course... ... just like most of us are basically together on general points. When hitting those big differences it's often on major topics, like torture, partisan political corruption, and such. Most things can be worked out between sensible/respectful folk, but some ideals are so extreme that their will never be a bonding. Lack of education on the issues is a major stumbling block towards unity, and too many don't even want the truth.

We could get into a whole new thread on prisons and crime here.

America already has the highest number of prisoners in for victimless crimes, a huge number of them are in on mere cannabis charges.

I'm up, or down, for it.

Most all pot crimes shouldn't be prison worthy, that's usually corrupt systems/personel at work. There are prison-worthy victimless crimes, but our entire prison/prosecution system are overdue in needs of major overhauling.

Then how do you explain why other civilized countries with strict gun control laws, like England and Mexico, have lower violent crime rates than the US?

America is different. And are they all that much lower?
In the states that allow you to carry, the serious person to person crime rates go down, usually after a slight spike due to the 'adjustment' curve.

People follow her because it's easier on the eyes.

Only if you've never heard/read anything out of her mouth/mind. Fortunately she has a 2nd mouth that lets you know the truth behind her BS words.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Then how do you explain why other civilized countries with strict gun control laws, like England and Mexico, have lower violent crime rates than the US? Why does Alabama with an open carry law have one of the highest violent crime rates in the US? Despite the sensationalized "news" you read in the media about Mexico, I am safer in Mexico than I am in the US. Tucson has a higher violent crime rate than Tijuana (which has one of the highest in Mexico)!

Boom! Matapule hits one deep into center. And he knocks that one WAY OUTTA THE PARK!!! It's a game winner.

For the longest time, the NRA simpletons have always fallen back on wrapping themselves in the 2nd amendment whenever they lose every other logical debate. Well, even pleading the 2nd is lame to this observer.

1) When the founding fathers wrote the Bill of Rights in 1789, there were no such things as automatic or semi-automatic weapons. None of them dreamed that a single person could singlehandedly slaughter and maim dozens of people in a shooting spree before being subdued.

2) When the founding fathers referred to a "well-regulated militia" in the 2nd amendment, were they talking about civilians being able to obtain firearms with gun laws as lenient as that in Arizona?

Arizona gun laws, which have been criticized by gun-control groups, permit any law-abiding resident older than 18 to buy or possess a firearm. Federal law requires anyone buying a handgun, as opposed to a rifle or shotgun, to be at least 21.

Arizona laws were relaxed even further last year when Gov. Jan Brewer (R) signed a National Rifle Association-backed bill repealing a state law requiring gun owners to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. State law now permits anyone 21 years or older and legally qualified to own a firearm to carry the weapon without a concealed-to-carry permit.

State law also permits Arizonans to carry a concealed weapon into establishments that serve alcohol as long as they aren't consuming alcohol. They also are permitted to possess a concealed weapon on school grounds while picking up or dropping off a child, as long as the weapon is unloaded and the gun owner remains in the vehicle.

The change in the law won praise from gun groups. "This is a major victory for gun owners in Arizona," Chris W. Cox, executive director of NRA's political arm in Washington, said at the time. "The NRA is also grateful to the legislators who voted for this measure making Arizona the third state in the nation behind Vermont and Alaska to offer its residents a constitutional carry option."

Well, I hope that Mr. Cox is proud of himself for supporting legislation that allowed Jared Lee Loughner to go out and legally purchase a Glock semi-automatic in Tucson,..... AFTER he had 5 run-ins with Pima Community College police, AFTER he was suspended from school and was banned from returning to campus until he received a letter from a mental health official indicating "his presence at the College does not present a danger to himself or others." Background check? Who needs it?

To Mr. Cox and the other geniuses that supported this gun ownership law, I'd like to adapt the classic quote from the Caine Mutiny: You can wipe the rest of your life, Mister. But you'll never wipe out the bloody stains of that 9 year old girl from your hands.

[Adri]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

and speaking of crazies, the Westboro Baptist Church says it will picket the funeral of the victims

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_806319.html

[tutusue]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

and speaking of crazies, the Westboro Baptist Church says it will picket the funeral of the victims

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_806319.html

Speechless...

[Amati]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Speechless...

Check out the other websites that they have on their flyer, and you'll not have any speech, or breath!

[Kaonohi]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Huh?? Then how do you explain why other civilized countries with strict gun control laws, like England and Mexico, have lower violent crime rates than the US? Why does Alabama with an open carry law have one of the highest violent crime rates in the US? Despite the sensationalized "news" you read in the media about Mexico, I am safer in Mexico than I am in the US. Tucson has a higher violent crime rate than Tijuana (which has one of the highest in Mexico)!

I recommend you re-check your statistics.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Boom! Matapule hits one deep into center. And he knocks that one WAY OUTTA THE PARK!!! It's a game winner.

For the longest time, the NRA simpletons have always fallen back on wrapping themselves in the 2nd amendment whenever they lose every other logical debate. Well, even pleading the 2nd is lame to this observer.

1) When the founding fathers wrote the Bill of Rights in 1789, there were no such things as automatic or semi-automatic weapons. None of them dreamed that a single person could singlehandedly slaughter and maim dozens of people in a shooting spree before being subdued.

2) When the founding fathers referred to a "well-regulated militia" in the 2nd amendment, were they talking about civilians being able to obtain firearms with gun laws as lenient as that in Arizona?



Well, I hope that Mr. Cox is proud of himself for supporting legislation that allowed Jared Lee Loughner to go out and legally purchase a Glock semi-automatic in Tucson,..... AFTER he had 5 run-ins with Pima Community College police, AFTER he was suspended from school and was banned from returning to campus until he received a letter from a mental health official indicating "his presence at the College does not present a danger to himself or others." Background check? Who needs it?

To Mr. Cox and the other geniuses that supported this gun ownership law, I'd like to adapt the classic quote from the Caine Mutiny: You can wipe the rest of your life, Mister. But you'll never wipe out the bloody stains of that 9 year old girl from your hands.

Silly little Napolean.

Florida and several other states had significant reductions in violent crime rates after passing rules to allow honest citizens to carry concealed weapons.
England and Australia, among others, saw increases in violent crime after passing anti-gun legislation.

QED

The essence is to keep guns out of the hands of people with violent imperatives, and allow guns in the hands of citizens who are aligned with law. Background and psych checks are the first steps.

Perhaps you believe that 'no guns' is the answer, but if only ONE person on the 9-11 flights had a gun (including our government-promised 'air marshals'), thousands of lives would have been saved.

That blood is on the hands of anti-gunners, like yourself.

Wakey Uppey! Terrorists are invading. What are you doing? Throwing books at them?

[Kaonohi]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

The National Guard is an armed domestic militia. A bunch of gun-loving nuts is not.

Then consider yourself having an advantage over me. You are also probably younger and better looking too. BFD!

That was a snarky comment and un-called for. I know many good Republicans who don't carry guns.

I suppose a Mexican cannot understand: The "National Guard" is NOT a militia; by definition a militia is all countrymen 'of age' who own weapons for protection of the nation.

I don't own guns; I wish I could. Many Disabled American Veterans have been forbidden from owning guns - just recently, isn't that a good idea? Disarm all your trained warriors so the enemy can easily invade.

I'm ugly and old. Could you have served in Vietnam or Korea? I could, and did.

Carrying guns is an individual choice, not a political imperative, however, it is the Democratic faction in America that is against gun ownership. Wake up.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Let's blame the crazies who commit such unspeakable crimes, and not the inanimate objects they use to commit them.

Statistics, from a gun-control site:

As in the old days, when we prosecuted perpetrators for crimes, let's not blame flints, knives, bones, swords or guns for crime; let's blame the perpetrators.

Violent crimes are unexcusable. So is blocking the citizens from protecting themselves and others from violent crime, terrorism or invasion.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Many Disabled American Veterans have been forbidden from owning guns - just recently, isn't that a good idea? Disarm all your trained warriors ...

"All," or just those diagnosed with PTSD? Could you clarify this bit for me, please? I'm not familiar with the circumstances.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

"All," or just those diagnosed with PTSD? Could you clarify this bit for me, please? I'm not familiar with the circumstances.

PTSD is a blanket diagnosis, meaning a soldier has been stressted by combat situations. Most soldiers have.

• Difficulty concentrating
• Exaggerated response to things that startle you
• Excess awareness (hypervigilance)
• Irritability or outbursts of anger
• Sleeping difficulties

or symptoms that include:


1. Repeated "reliving" of the event, which disturbs day-to-day activity

• Flashback episodes, where the event seems to be happening again and again
• Recurrent distressing memories of the event
• Repeated dreams of the event
• Physical reactions to situations that remind you of the traumatic event

2. Avoidance

• Emotional "numbing," or feeling as though you don’t care about anything
• Feelings of detachment
• Inability to remember important aspects of the trauma
• Lack of interest in normal activities
• Less expression of moods
• Staying away from places, people, or objects that remind you of the event
• Sense of having no future

3. Arousal

• Difficulty concentrating
• Exaggerated response to things that startle you
• Excess awareness (hypervigilance)
• Irritability or outbursts of anger
• Sleeping difficulties

You also might feel a sense of guilt about the event (including "survivor guilt"), and the following symptoms, which are typical of anxiety, stress, and tension:

• Agitation, or excitability
• Dizziness
• Fainting
• Feeling your heart beat in your chest (palpitations)
• Fever
• Headache
• Paleness

These are some, but not all, reasons to restrict access to firearms.

So why the 'blanket denial?'
Many of us are still quite competent and capable of handling firearms.
There must be a 'hidden agenda,' no?