Arizona congresswoman shot

[Kaonohi]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

It has come to light that there were several citizens present at this tragedy that had concealed carry permits and were in possesion of firearms. when some research was done about why none came forward with weapons drawn it was surmised that when you have a concealed carry or open carry for that matter. you may only use your weapon to protect yourself and your family from grave danger. part of the training you recieve when aquiring a permit reinforces these laws.
With that knowledge and if true i would say that properly trained permit holders acted responsibly in this case. imagine the chaos if a dozen or so citizens pulled out weapons during this tragedy.

Hmmmm. Acting responsibly was not enough!

[Kaonohi]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

PFFFFFTTTTT!!!!!

That's the sound of Ron and Tim's arguments going flat.

PFFFFFTTTTT!!!!!

The sound of "protective Legislation going flat.

[tutusue]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Imagine the shape of the killer's body with all them bullet holes in it, and maybe everybody else alive.[...]

It's already been reported that a bystander had his hand on his gun and had he used it, he would've shot the wrong person. Too much adrenaline surging in a situation such as Tucson to have ended up with only Loughner shot and no one else. It would've been deadly chaos.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Or... potentially a lessening of the carnage, with possibly different but in the end fewer innocents being hit. This guy hit way too many and was intent to go until stopped, he had tossed his bag of extra ammo. Sometimes you have to risk it, but it's obviously a tuff call in the heat of the moment.
My favoring everybody being armed is sad and disgusting to me, it's a last resort stand, unfortunately we've reached that tipping point. It will take big mistakes and sometimes extra loss of life as the learning curve evolves, but eventually it gets the message out to kooks that you probably won't achieve your goals and die trying. Some won't care, maybe even prefering to die this way, but most will have a rethink. It's proven it's self time and again where the laws were changed to allow carrying.

[matapule]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Gladly. Enlightenment is a GOOD thing!

Notning wrong with being wrong from time to time, and props for acknowledging your error. Heavens knows I am wrong several times a day, just ask uaifi!

I guess some states think that those rules are overly restrictive, or, it may be that such extended magazines are used illegally. The heroine who stopped the kook from inserting another magazine (of whatever capacity) deserves a medal - or something. Few have the 'fortitude' to accomplish such heroism.

I pointed that out in an earlier post, and she was wounded too! This woman has cajones! Blessed be women!

And you have touched the subject of my discourse throughout this thread, - some States are exercizing almost NO restrictions on gun control. It is legal in Arizona to have 33 clip magazines. A 33 round automatic weapon is NOT a defensive weapon. Time for some Federal sanity on gun legislation since some States can't seem to get their tu'umama'o together.

You are unaware of the facts, and are promoting lies designed to misinform.

I believe that in fact you have admitted that you were the one who was unaware of the facts. It would be nice if you proferred an apology to Frankie for you error. My esteem for you would be much more than it already is.

[matapule]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

My favoring everybody being armed is sad and disgusting to me, it's a last resort stand, unfortunately we've reached that tipping point. It will take big mistakes and sometimes extra loss of life as the learning curve evolves, but eventually it gets the message out to kooks that you probably won't achieve your goals and die trying..

Please Ron, you are a smart guy, kooks will be kooks, they are going to do whatever insane thing they are going to do whether people are armed or not. People were armed at that event, but fortunately nobody used their weapons to fire on an innocent through a misunderstanding of the events.

Look, I know how fustrated you feel, and I do too, but arming everyone is NOT the answer.

We can never make ourselves 100% safe. I enjoy life and I am willing to risk that life should I ever the misfortune to cross paths with a kook. I do not own a weapon. I am an optimist and I believe that I can go through life with a positive attitude that no arm will befall me at the hand of some kook - whether it be by gun, or vehicle, or drugs, or whatever. Should it happen to me, then F that person, I had a good life and I don't regret one minute of it. I can think of worse ways to die.

Blessed be, Ron.

[tutusue]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Yep...kooks will be kooks. There's no changing that. A case in point...

At the end of filming a commercial on Kauai, the director, soundperson, actress and I retreated to a desolate area to get away from the crew wrap noise while we recorded voice over dialogue. An old beat up car approached out of nowhere. We had to pause because of the noisy engine. Soon 4 guys got out of the car and wandered over to us. I saw the director's eyes get the size of saucers. One kook got in my face asking for drugs. He held the point of a knife against my stomach. The rest of the story is a study in miracles.

The point being...kooks are everywhere and they exercise their kookiness in a multitude of ways. That will never change. I'm so grateful no one (including my colleagues) had a gun during that situation.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Or... potentially a lessening of the carnage, with possibly different but in the end fewer innocents being hit.

Of course, we all know that if Good Shooter-Person "A" had fired upon Bad Shooter-Person "B", thus taking him out of commission, that it would be clearly obvious to Other Shooter-Person "C" who was the Good Shooter-Person and who was the Bad Shooter-Person, and that the Good Shooter-Person was clearly not the Bad Shooter-Person, and thus would not be fired upon by the Other Shooter-Person, right? Times two? Times ten? Times how-many-Other Shooter-Persons in the crowd? Because everything would be easy to figure out and everyone would be clear-headed and there would be absolutely no panic or confusion at the scene of gunplay, right?


And I am the Queen of Sheba.

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuX-nFmL0II

Chris Rock on gun control.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

That was FUNNY.

What ain't funny is victims, and not being armed in today's climate will virtually assure you of being a victim should a major situation arise, being armed gives you a much higher chance of surviving the ordeal. Street 101. Yes, there were armed civi's there, yet it took a wounded unarmed heroic woman to discontinue the shooting. Once the creep shot the Congresswoman he should have been downed, how can they not have done that, but instead he wounded 13 more and killed 6?

I was in the uh-uh/no guns crowd, but times have changed for the much worse and unlike matapule I'm not ready to have some jerk snuff out what has been an awesome life with more coming every day. I want a chance at surviving the once unthinkable.

[tutusue]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

[...]Once the creep shot the Congresswoman he should have been downed, how can they not have done that, but instead he wounded 13 more and killed 6?[...]

Ron, are you saying you really don't understand why those with concealed guns didn't shoot the perp? To me it's wildly obvious.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

I havn't followed it much to know it all, so why?

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Once the creep shot the Congresswoman he should have been downed, how can they not have done that, but instead he wounded 13 more and killed 6?

I was in the uh-uh/no guns crowd, but times have changed for the much worse and unlike matapule I'm not ready to have some jerk snuff out what has been an awesome life with more coming every day. I want a chance at surviving the once unthinkable.

Ron, are you saying you really don't understand why those with concealed guns didn't shoot the perp? To me it's wildly obvious.

Allowing untrained, trigger-happy civies with "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality to legally purchase arms,..... gee, that really makes me feel safe.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Better than trying to ask questions from the grave, no?

[tutusue]

Re: Arizona congresswoman shot

Allowing untrained, trigger-happy civies with "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality to legally purchase arms,..... gee, that really makes me feel safe.

That's part of it. But, how many citizens, with or without guns, in that situation (a crowd, big or small) won't be impacted by confusion and fear? It's more than likely way to difficult to determine, esp. when one's adrenaline level has gone from 0 to 1000 in a couple of seconds, who *exactly* is the gunman. If concealed gun carriers who are law abiding citizens drew their guns...well...the picture is painfully obvious.

Ron, see my post #112 above. That wasn't even a crowd. The adrenaline level of the 8 people involved was palpable. I shudder to think how it would've turned out if guns were involved.