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  • #31
    Re: Firearms in the USA

    Originally posted by acousticlady View Post
    Having said that reminds me of a lesson I learned long ago. I had somehow gotten myself lost in downtown Newark, NJ in the middle of the night. I couldn't find my way back to the highway and everything was closed. I saw a police officer, so I pulled over to ask for directions (pre-GPS). He said."I could, but I want to ask you a favor. See that gang of black kids standing on the corner over there? Drive up to them and ask for directions." Now, from afar, these kids looked like the stereotypical gang members - about 10-15 of them. Trusting in the officer, I drove up and rolled down my window and asked how to get to the highway. They all looked at me in slight disbelief that I had the guts to ask them. They then got big smiles on their faces and one of them said "Yes Ma'am" and proceeded to try and explain how to get there. I couldn't see from my car exactly where he was saying to turn. He said, "come here, you have to get out of the car to see it." So, I did. He walked with me up to the corner where we could better see the turn. Just then, one of the kid's mother came out from the building. She just wanted to thank me for having enough faith in these guys - it really meant a lot to them!
    Beautiful story. A little off-topic, but it shows how we cling to our stereotypes until we have the guts to prove them false. To bring us back on-topic I'll apply it to gun owners: Not every gun owner is a gun nut. Gun nuts do exist, just as certainly as anti-gun nuts exist, but most of us are somewhere in the middle.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Firearms in the USA

      Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
      just as certainly as anti-gun nuts exist,
      I AM an anti-gun nut! There, now you don't have to insinuate!
      Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

      People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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      • #33
        Re: Firearms in the USA

        Pepper in a pot to successfully elicit response.

        Re: being miles away from my house... That's the intention.

        Re: gun screening... The US government authorizes my carry. My screen is more intensive than any joke background checks around here. Too bad the fact of the matter is everyone is a fraidy-cat when it comes to guns that it blurs the vision of sensibility. Get over youselves already.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Firearms in the USA

          Yes, Hawaii is a state 'unwise' enough NOT to have a Castle Doctrine in a "codified manner." For those who take it at face-value, you have admitted to ignorance of the very laws that govern you. But for those who actually read state laws for a hobby, Hawaii double-pansies out with a recommendation to run away or avoid conflict if at all possible. The statute even admits in writing that it has the appearance of cowardice. But that only means it would "prefer" to spare a life of a criminal if at all possible.

          Whereas a "Castle Doctrine" just about allows you to shoot first and ask questions later (if you even feel like asking questions), the lack of a Castle Doctrine in Hawaii doesn't mean a man can't protect his home.

          Put it this way, in your own house, there's no other place you would like to be. Any man who runs from his own house is an idiot. While there is no "castle doctrine," 703-304 implies a similarity exists.

          We would not normally expect a man to abandon his home to an aggressor and would allow him to stand his ground, although an exception is made, consistent with paragraph (a), if the actor is the initial aggressor.

          In essence, your home IS your castle. Where this doesn't apply is if you're an idiot going out and attacking people, and you think you can escape by running into your house.

          Any homeowner should be ecstatic that 703-300 and 703-304 exists.

          So as a courtesy, read up on some laws before making any accusations against a legal homeowner and gun owner set on rightfully and LAWFULLY protecting his property.

          (Insert the 703-304 reference link here. What? I'm going to do it for you? Pssh.)

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Firearms in the USA

            Hawaii Revised Statute 703
            Hawaii Revised Statute 703-300
            Hawaii Revised Statute 703-304
            Last edited by MyopicJoe; January 29, 2011, 10:56 PM.
            "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
            "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
            "
            Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

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            • #36
              Re: Firearms in the USA

              Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
              Not every gun owner is a gun nut. Gun nuts do exist, just as certainly as anti-gun nuts exist, but most of us are somewhere in the middle.
              The stereotypical "Gun Nut" is probably dubbed as the down-south redneck with a garage full of automatic weapons telling the story of how he's waiting for the next UFO landing or zombie invasion.

              Of all the legal authorized gun owners I am friends with or in acquaintance with, all of them understand the legal discourses and mental responsibility in owning and possessing an instrument capable of taking a life at will. None of us think that'd we'd be badass owning an M60 with a drum of ammunition.

              That's right... even sarcastic people like me who take enjoyment in posting comments that stir ignorant minds for pure entertainment knows that I have a legitimate responsibility in being entrusted with such instrument. (What, can't take punches when they're thrown back at you?) But BS aside, I'll reiterate that responsible owners do rank higher on the trust and morality scale in my book. It's the power of capability with the competence of restraint.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Firearms in the USA

                Originally posted by bjd392 View Post
                Pepper in a pot to successfully elicit response.


                That is called "trolling."
                Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Firearms in the USA

                  Originally posted by matapule View Post
                  [/color]

                  That is called "trolling."
                  Nah, a troller is more like a drive-by, like egging a car. Leaving a mark and never returning.

                  This is more like chumming, because you don't go anywhere for that. Since there's a good lot of crap getting spewed in here, I might as well bring my bucket too, so I don't feel left out. My bait just has a different color and flavor.

                  But as far as this topic is concerned, I'm the one methaphorically bringing the bullets to the gun show, not the knives. Which mean's I'm more on track with this topic than you'll ever know.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Firearms in the USA

                    Originally posted by MyopicJoe View Post
                    I agree, especially in Hawaii where we don't have Castle Doctrine. You can NOT shoot a person for merely breaking into your house or for stealing your property.

                    None of this stupid: "I'll shot him and then drag him into the house." "I'll shoot him till he goes down and then shot him in the head so he can't testify or sue me." "He's in my house, so I can shoot him in the back."

                    Do NOT let your emotions or ego control you; you WILL ruin your life by getting thrown in jail.
                    Joe brings up a great point, and this quoted passage has a lot of meaning.

                    I don't know how many times people accuse responsible gun owners of being the "type that would drag a body inside." First of all, we don't want him inside, whether he's dead or alive. Second of all, responsible gun owners KNOW when they can shoot, and will exercise their restraint more effectively than the naive accusor can only dream. The problem is people always assume that a burglar (already classified as a felon by legal definition) is only there to steal. More often than not a burglar will escalate his intentions when there is a moment of opportunity. If he broke in the first time with no repercussion, he'll come back again and eye a bigger prize. Yes, your TV looks nice... but so does your 14 year-old daughter. You as the homeowner are not obligated to determine what the burglar is thinking while he is unlawfully in your house. And if you don't think some fear is in your mind when someone you don't know is invading your place, then you're certainly more stoic than me.

                    Next, on the topic of precedent, the use of a firearm implies the intent to inflict serious bodily harm and death. No one is trained to shoot arms or legs; you are trained to shoot center mass. Their survival is not your priority.

                    While we're on the topic of survival... I can't help bit see the irony of how a defenseless person in the face of a criminal thinks they have an inkling of a chance of surviving. The phrase, "I'd rather by tried by 12 than carried by 6," is more of a survivalist attitude than the one so willing to give up so easily. But then again, for those of you who value life so much, I figure you'd rather have a ruined life in jail than to be killed so easily. At least you have a better chance with jurors than you do with morticians.
                    And while this so-called false bravado 'may get me killed,' I had a better chance of fighting back over having NO CHANCE AT ALL. If criminals were intent on killing me (or anyone else in here), they might succeed. The TRUE survivalist will try to take them down before they take you down.
                    Last edited by bjd392; January 30, 2011, 08:05 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Firearms in the USA

                      One of my favorite NRA quotes is that "often the mere presence of a firearm is adequate to prevent a crime." Obviously they mean the presence when held by a law-abiding citizen.

                      I had that happen to me - I think I've already mentioned it here in an earlier thread - I had an attempted break-in. I sleep lightly. I got my gun and merely cocked the hammer (it was a revolver), and the intruder took off running - he recognized the sound.

                      I called the police at 911 and told them. They asked, "Is he still there?" I said, No, and they said, "Well if he comes back, call us."

                      No, they did not come and cruise the neighborhood looking for people out at 3am. Why bother?
                      Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                      ~ ~
                      Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                      Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                      Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Firearms in the USA

                        Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                        I called the police at 911 and told them. They asked, "Is he still there?" I said, No, and they said, "Well if he comes back, call us."

                        No, they did not come and cruise the neighborhood looking for people out at 3am. Why bother?
                        How do you know they didn't cruise the neighborhood? They didn't say they weren't coming by, they said to call them if the intruder came back which I presume they didn't. And exactly what should they be looking for? Were they male or female, how old, physical description? It is not illegal to be out at 3am. What would you have the police do, stop every pedestrian and vehicle in your neighborhood and for a how long a time period? Yes, in my opinion, the police have better things to do. I suggest you go on a "ride along" with the police in your area like I have done at O dark thirty. Very interesting and very informative. It gave me a whole new appreciation for police officers. Sure there are some bad apples in the police but almost all are good people just like the rest of us.

                        I thought you said you weren't permitted to own a gun? How do you know the intruder fled because you cocked your gun? Maybe the simple act of getting out of bed to investigate scared them off. I heard noises one night and got out of bed to investigate (I don't own any guns). It was a coyote and boy did I scare him off as I tripped over a chair in the dark and used my best Tongan swear words! I would have accidentally shot myself if I had a gun! I have a better chance of being struck by lightning on the golf course (I don't play golf) than I have a encountering an armed intruder in my neighborhood.

                        Some of you guys are so paranoid it borders on neurotic.
                        Last edited by matapule; January 31, 2011, 02:54 AM.
                        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Firearms in the USA

                          Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                          I don't own guns; I wish I could.
                          Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                          I got my gun and merely cocked the hammer ...
                          Brother Kaonohi, can you explain (as Brother Matapule noted already) the discrepancy in your statements? I'm sure it's not complicated.
                          Originally posted by matapule View Post
                          I thought you said you weren't permitted to own a gun?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Firearms in the USA

                            Originally posted by matapule View Post
                            How do you know they didn't cruise the neighborhood? They didn't say they weren't coming by, they said to call them if the intruder came back which I presume they didn't. And exactly what should they be looking for? Were they male or female, how old, physical description? It is not illegal to be out at 3am.

                            I thought you said you weren't permitted to own a gun? How do you know the intruder fled because you cocked your gun? Maybe the simple act of getting out of bed to investigate scared them off.

                            Some of you guys are so paranoid it borders on neurotic.
                            My, you do snap at the bait so quickly. Thank You!

                            1. They had a description of the intruder I gave them. I sat up and watched until it was time to get up in the AM - I don't like to be caught unaware. Paranoid? Perhaps. Better paranoid than dead.

                            2. This was before the 'Veterans disarmament act' that disarmed any Veterans who had any record of psychiatric counseling. I complained of memory impairment, a psych said it was PTSD. I went through the PTSD Recovery Program (TSRP - Traumatic Stress Recovery Program). I still have anterograde amnesia. I also have 'hypervigilance.' This means I awaken at odd hours when I hear an incongruous noise. I also notice EVERY-FG-THING around me, like keys on the road, indistinguishable trash, etc. And I usually stop to check it out. Most of my tools (sockets, screwdrivers, etc.), I picked up from the highway. My main job in Vietnam was mine sweep and booby-traps. I was the best. I still am. But the program helped me keep it in perspective.

                            3. I was up silently and the intruder didn't react until I cocked my gun (which I can no longer own). It was obvious. I could move silently when needed, the intruder was tip-toeing until the gun was cocked, then he ran!

                            4. I guess you must be a psychiatrist to be able to diagnose me as "paranoid." If not, please keep your armchair diagnoses to yourself. We Vietnam Veterans have been labeled incessantly - baby-killers, paranoids, traitors, and everything else. Unfairly, and mistakenly. How about saying "Welcome Home?" it's the one thing we never heard.

                            You accused me of being a racist recently, I think you're as guilty of unfair classification - if not stated, it is obvious from your speech.

                            And I was beginning to believe you were a 'matapule.'
                            Last edited by Kaonohi; January 31, 2011, 02:19 PM.
                            Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                            ~ ~
                            Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                            Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                            Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Firearms in the USA

                              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                              Brother Kaonohi, can you explain (as Brother Matapule noted already) the discrepancy in your statements? I'm sure it's not complicated.
                              I was allowed to own guns until the Veterans Disarmament Act was passed (HR 2640). Because I went through the TSRP, the Traumatic Stress Recovery Program, to help with memory and amnesia, all my firearms were confiscated. The agencies that monitor this stuff don't distinguish between 'hypervigilance (being aware of everything in your environment - like focused)' and schizophrenia (or any other disorder). If you are a Vet who has had mental health treatment, you are banned from owning weapons.

                              According to Ms. Pelosi, you are next: "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in."

                              That is, except for criminals; they can keep theirs.

                              Doesn't sound fair, doesn't make sense, but there it is.
                              Last edited by Kaonohi; January 31, 2011, 03:17 PM.
                              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                              ~ ~
                              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Firearms in the USA

                                Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                                My, you do snap at the bait so quickly. Thank You!
                                I was under the impression you wanted an intelligent discussion. If you are baiting, you are just trolling like BJ. End of discussion!
                                Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                                People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                                Comment

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