View Poll Results: What is your position on firearms?

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    8 42.11%
  • Some people should be excluded from the 2nd amendment rights.

    7 36.84%
  • Some firearm types (e.g., machine guns) should be banned.

    8 42.11%
  • Ownership is unrestricted, but carry rights are conditional.

    3 15.79%
  • Ownership only by 'law-abiding citizens" is permitted.

    3 15.79%
  • Both ownership and carry rights are only for trained and screened people.

    4 21.05%
  • Citizens should "prove a need" to own or carry firearms.

    0 0%
  • Both ownership and carry rights are only for trained and screened law enforcement and security.

    1 5.26%
  • Only Law Enforcement should have firearms.

    2 10.53%
  • All firearms that can be found should be banned and destroyed.

    1 5.26%
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Thread: Firearms in the USA

  1. #26
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    Wink Re: Firearms in the USA

    May those without guns or insurance be the first to be burglarized... because those with both will be covered either way.

    Secondly, an uninvited "guest" in my house will be escorted out in a body bag. That is the rule of MY HOUSE. Take it or leave it, or you can die trying. That is my unwaivered, unchangable stance. Thanks

    Remember, a dead man can't testify at a trial. And if he's uninvited in my home, he is a felon. And yes, lethal force is authorized, justified, and in my castle, the LAW AND SOLEMN DOMAIN.

    (No trespassing or soliticing, per the sign on my front yard.)

    LOL.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    I'm guessing the source of that statement is the Supreme Court ruling declaring: "the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm"
    Yes, that would be the conservative justices appointed by W voting in favor of that ruling, and the liberal justices voting in opposition

    Of course there's a big difference between saying "the police aren't forced to protect you" vs. "the police don't care".
    And that's where I am calling out Kaonohi.

    And I wouldn't be surprised if an officer abandoned their public duty to take care of their own family in a disaster.
    And well they should! But we are not talking about disasters here, we are talking about personal gun ownership.

    As others have said, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." In the end, your personal safety and that of your family are in your hands.
    So what do you do when that terrorist hijacks the airplane? Are you going to lobby for open carry on an airplane? I don't want to be on any airplane with a gun carrying screwball, because they are all terrorists in my opinion.

    Having said that, compared to the rest of the world, America is a pretty safe place to live in (at least for now).
    I disagree. America is number one for deaths by gun PER CAPITA. Just too many gun nuts running around in the US.

    1) Financial security (remaining debt free except for a mortgage on a modestly priced home)
    2) Food security (food quality and adequate food supply in case there are disruptions to the oh so profitable just-in-time inventory system)
    3) Health/Medical security (from having extra medication on hand to being able to avoid hospitals as much as possible)
    4) Physical security (with a flashlight and pepper spray being very useful less-than-lethal tools)
    1) more regulation needed on Wall Street
    2) more regulation needed on the commodities giants
    3) national health insurance is a step in the right direction - getting health care out of the hands of for profit insurance companies doing what is best for their stock holders rather than your personal health care
    4) if you have pepper spray, why do you need a gun? because the other guy has one? Good luck at the shoot out at the OK Corral!

    Quote Originally Posted by bjd392 View Post
    May those without guns or insurance be the first to be burglarized... because those with both will be covered either way.
    BJ, that is a truly despicable thing to say. That would get you kicked out of any Tongan village!

    Secondly, an uninvited "guest" in my house will be escorted out in a body bag.

    Nothing but false bravado that will likely get you killed or a lengthy jail term.

    And if he's uninvited in my home, he is a felon. And yes, lethal force is authorized, justified, and in my castle, the LAW AND SOLEMN DOMAIN.

    Unfortunarely, Court precedent IS NOT on your side. You can huff and you can puff all you like, but with your attitude, you may go to jail in those circumstances.

    (No trespassing or soliticing, per the sign on my front yard.)
    LOL.
    What if they can't read English? There was a famous case several years ago, where a high school foreign exchange student went trick-or-treating at a house that had a sign posted that said, "no trick-or-treaters." The house owner shot the kid dead. I believe he is still in jail.

    LOL all you want, but you are one dangerous dude. If I knew where you lived, I wouldn't come within miles of your place. You are exactly the kind of person who should be screened out from owning a gun!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    I'm guessing the source of that statement is the Supreme Court ruling declaring: "the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html

    Of course there's a big difference between saying "the police aren't forced to protect you" vs. "the police don't care".

    I'm sure most police officers want to help others, but that doesn't always mean they are able to. There might not be enough man power to protect everyone, due to budget problems or perhaps a lot of emergencies happening at once. And I wouldn't be surprised if an officer abandoned their public duty to take care of their own family in a disaster.

    As others have said, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." In the end, your personal safety and that of your family are in your hands.

    Having said that, compared to the rest of the world, America is a pretty safe place to live in (at least for now). Unless you have a risky lifestyle, most of us don't have to deal with violence on a daily basis. Awareness and preparation remain our most powerful defense against violent crime.

    With the current state of our country, my security priorities are:

    1) Financial security (remaining debt free except for a mortgage on a modestly priced home)
    2) Food security (food quality and adequate food supply in case there are disruptions to the oh so profitable just-in-time inventory system)
    3) Health/Medical security (from having extra medication on hand to being able to avoid hospitals as much as possible)
    4) Physical security (with a flashlight and pepper spray being very useful less-than-lethal tools)
    Without getting into all the physics of it all, I believe from the depth of my heart that the thoughts you put out into the universe are what you get back (if you think the world is out to get you , it will).

    I have never had anything but good relations with police officers (in the 2 or 3 times I've come across them) and know they have my best interests at heart.

    As far as you security precautions....

    1) I agree. I am trying really hard to get there. I want to buy a house in S Florida before the prices go up again (Buying in Hawaii is way out of reach for me). That is my main objective in financial security - how does protection against violence play into this?

    2) I agree. I need protection from hurricanes. I'm always prepared for a hurricane, even in upstate NY.

    3) Yes, I have medical insurance. I just have no plans on using it.

    4) I have a 10 yr old lab/chow mix that I have promised to protect in the off chance someone breaks in.

    I also want to add that, despite having said several times that I live in a ivory tower, I actually live in an inner city, complete with gangs and everything.

    Having said that reminds me of a lesson I learned long ago. I had somehow gotten myself lost in downtown Newark, NJ in the middle of the night. I couldn't find my way back to the highway and everything was closed. I saw a police officer, so I pulled over to ask for directions (pre-GPS). He said."I could, but I want to ask you a favor. See that gang of black kids standing on the corner over there? Drive up to them and ask for directions." Now, from afar, these kids looked like the stereotypical gang members - about 10-15 of them. Trusting in the officer, I drove up and rolled down my window and asked how to get to the highway. They all looked at me in slight disbelief that I had the guts to ask them. They then got big smiles on their faces and one of them said "Yes Ma'am" and proceeded to try and explain how to get there. I couldn't see from my car exactly where he was saying to turn. He said, "come here, you have to get out of the car to see it." So, I did. He walked with me up to the corner where we could better see the turn. Just then, one of the kid's mother came out from the building. She just wanted to thank me for having enough faith in these guys - it really meant a lot to them!

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    But we are not talking about disasters here, we are talking about personal gun ownership.
    I'm talking about justifications for personal gun ownership, with lack of police protection during a disaster as one of them.


    So what do you do when that terrorist hijacks the airplane? Are you going to lobby for open carry on an airplane? I don't want to be on any airplane with a gun carrying screwball, because they are all terrorists in my opinion.
    Uh that's bit of an extreme scenario, but in that one I would agree that people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in a delicate environment such as a plane. I also don't believe pilots should carry either, because instead of a terrorist having to sneak a gun on board, they can take it from the pilot.

    On a side note, conceal carry is better than open carry, IMO.


    I disagree. America is number one for deaths by gun PER CAPITA. Just too many gun nuts running around in the US.
    According to the CDC's 2010 National Vital Statistics Report, table 18, page 89, in 2007:

    42,031 people died in motor vehicle related incidents
    31,224 people died in firearm related incidents
    17,352(55.6%) were suicide
    12,632(40.5%) were homicide
    613(2.0%) were unintentional
    I don't count firearm suicides, when it comes to violence against society.

    I'm hoping to find stats on what percentage of homicides were committed by gang members or repeat offenders (i.e. people unlikely to obey the law).

    FYI, the CDC report uses the International Classification of Diseases system.


    1) more regulation needed on Wall Street
    I don't see more regulation as a magic bullet, because I don't trust our regulating bodies. I wish I had solid links to give people right now, but people should research the Federal Reserve and its monetary policies. Research "fractional reserve banking".


    4) if you have pepper spray, why do you need a gun? because the other guy has one? Good luck at the shoot out at the OK Corral!
    Because some people are able to fight through pepper spray; whether because they are hopped up on drugs or have been pepper sprayed so many times by police they use it as a tabasco sauce replacement.

    Pepper spray is not a magic wand that will automatically stop an attack. Neither is a handgun (people are misled by what they see in movies and video games). I saw a news report where an average looking guy was shot 5 to 7 times by police (with some hits to the torso) with .45 caliber bullets and he was still able walk to the back of the police car without assistance.

    Many people have the misconception that a gun, a knife, pepper spray, or even a TRO (temporary restraining order) is a magic talisman.

    Anyways, why have pepper spray and a gun? Say I'm walking and a dog attacks me. It'd be nice to just scare it away with pepper spray, especially if it belong to a neighbor. Now suppose the dog has rabies. The disease has fried its brain and it won't react like a normal animal. In that case you may have no choice but to put it down.

    It's all about having options, because reality doesn't go the way you've planned.


    Unfortunarely, Court precedent IS NOT on your side. You can huff and you can puff all you like, but with your attitude, you may go to jail in those circumstances.
    [I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, blah blah blah]

    I agree, especially in Hawaii where we don't have Castle Doctrine. You can NOT shoot a person for merely breaking into your house or for stealing your property.

    None of this stupid: "I'll shot him and then drag him into the house." "I'll shoot him till he goes down and then shot him in the head so he can't testify or sue me." "He's in my house, so I can shoot him in the back."

    Do NOT let your emotions or ego control you; you WILL ruin your life by getting thrown in jail.


    Quote Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
    That is my main objective in financial security - how does protection against violence play into this?
    I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, but I think I do.

    I find that people focus too much on violence (and it's natural to do so), so I"m just trying to focus people's attention on more important problems such as personal finance. I believe the cause of most divorces are financial problems and emotional infidelity (with sexual infidelity a mere symptom of a deeper problem).


    Now, from afar, these kids looked like the stereotypical gang members - about 10-15 of them. Trusting in the officer, I drove up and rolled down my window and asked how to get to the highway. They all looked at me in slight disbelief that I had the guts to ask them. They then got big smiles on their faces and one of them said "Yes Ma'am" and proceeded to try and explain how to get there.
    Great story! I'm glad you decided to trust the officer. The way you treated those kids probably had a big impact on their lives.

    Of course if the officer didn't tell me it was OK, I wouldn't have done that myself.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
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    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  5. #30
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    Arrow Re: Firearms in the USA

    :Originally Posted by Kaonohi
    The police say it's not their job.


    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Where do you get that? Please verify that outrageous statement!

    Paranoia rules in some circles.
    Police do often make some outrageous statements, because that is where I got it from, several times, from different officers.

    In fact, usually they CANNOT protect us; they can't be everywhere all the time.

    Police can't and don't protect us from middle of the night break-in robberies or even daytime break-ins. Most times they do little or no investigation. I know, I was there and watched.

    They do try, they ticket speeders and overtime parkers, they investigate major robberies, some murders (to some extent, depending on who), etc. But the point is, they can't be at your door to beat back every attempt at crime. Too few police, too many doors, too many criminals.

    Think about it. When it comes down to it, YOU are your first line of defence.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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  6. #31
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    Wink Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
    Having said that reminds me of a lesson I learned long ago. I had somehow gotten myself lost in downtown Newark, NJ in the middle of the night. I couldn't find my way back to the highway and everything was closed. I saw a police officer, so I pulled over to ask for directions (pre-GPS). He said."I could, but I want to ask you a favor. See that gang of black kids standing on the corner over there? Drive up to them and ask for directions." Now, from afar, these kids looked like the stereotypical gang members - about 10-15 of them. Trusting in the officer, I drove up and rolled down my window and asked how to get to the highway. They all looked at me in slight disbelief that I had the guts to ask them. They then got big smiles on their faces and one of them said "Yes Ma'am" and proceeded to try and explain how to get there. I couldn't see from my car exactly where he was saying to turn. He said, "come here, you have to get out of the car to see it." So, I did. He walked with me up to the corner where we could better see the turn. Just then, one of the kid's mother came out from the building. She just wanted to thank me for having enough faith in these guys - it really meant a lot to them!
    Beautiful story. A little off-topic, but it shows how we cling to our stereotypes until we have the guts to prove them false. To bring us back on-topic I'll apply it to gun owners: Not every gun owner is a gun nut. Gun nuts do exist, just as certainly as anti-gun nuts exist, but most of us are somewhere in the middle.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    just as certainly as anti-gun nuts exist,
    I AM an anti-gun nut! There, now you don't have to insinuate!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  8. #33
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    Thumbs down Re: Firearms in the USA

    Pepper in a pot to successfully elicit response.

    Re: being miles away from my house... That's the intention.

    Re: gun screening... The US government authorizes my carry. My screen is more intensive than any joke background checks around here. Too bad the fact of the matter is everyone is a fraidy-cat when it comes to guns that it blurs the vision of sensibility. Get over youselves already.

  9. #34
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    Thumbs down Re: Firearms in the USA

    Yes, Hawaii is a state 'unwise' enough NOT to have a Castle Doctrine in a "codified manner." For those who take it at face-value, you have admitted to ignorance of the very laws that govern you. But for those who actually read state laws for a hobby, Hawaii double-pansies out with a recommendation to run away or avoid conflict if at all possible. The statute even admits in writing that it has the appearance of cowardice. But that only means it would "prefer" to spare a life of a criminal if at all possible.

    Whereas a "Castle Doctrine" just about allows you to shoot first and ask questions later (if you even feel like asking questions), the lack of a Castle Doctrine in Hawaii doesn't mean a man can't protect his home.

    Put it this way, in your own house, there's no other place you would like to be. Any man who runs from his own house is an idiot. While there is no "castle doctrine," 703-304 implies a similarity exists.

    We would not normally expect a man to abandon his home to an aggressor and would allow him to stand his ground, although an exception is made, consistent with paragraph (a), if the actor is the initial aggressor.

    In essence, your home IS your castle. Where this doesn't apply is if you're an idiot going out and attacking people, and you think you can escape by running into your house.

    Any homeowner should be ecstatic that 703-300 and 703-304 exists.

    So as a courtesy, read up on some laws before making any accusations against a legal homeowner and gun owner set on rightfully and LAWFULLY protecting his property.

    (Insert the 703-304 reference link here. What? I'm going to do it for you? Pssh.)

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Last edited by MyopicJoe; January 29th, 2011 at 11:56 PM.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
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    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  11. #36
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    Thumbs up Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    Not every gun owner is a gun nut. Gun nuts do exist, just as certainly as anti-gun nuts exist, but most of us are somewhere in the middle.
    The stereotypical "Gun Nut" is probably dubbed as the down-south redneck with a garage full of automatic weapons telling the story of how he's waiting for the next UFO landing or zombie invasion.

    Of all the legal authorized gun owners I am friends with or in acquaintance with, all of them understand the legal discourses and mental responsibility in owning and possessing an instrument capable of taking a life at will. None of us think that'd we'd be badass owning an M60 with a drum of ammunition.

    That's right... even sarcastic people like me who take enjoyment in posting comments that stir ignorant minds for pure entertainment knows that I have a legitimate responsibility in being entrusted with such instrument. (What, can't take punches when they're thrown back at you?) But BS aside, I'll reiterate that responsible owners do rank higher on the trust and morality scale in my book. It's the power of capability with the competence of restraint.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by bjd392 View Post
    Pepper in a pot to successfully elicit response.


    That is called "trolling."
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    [/color]

    That is called "trolling."
    Nah, a troller is more like a drive-by, like egging a car. Leaving a mark and never returning.

    This is more like chumming, because you don't go anywhere for that. Since there's a good lot of crap getting spewed in here, I might as well bring my bucket too, so I don't feel left out. My bait just has a different color and flavor.

    But as far as this topic is concerned, I'm the one methaphorically bringing the bullets to the gun show, not the knives. Which mean's I'm more on track with this topic than you'll ever know.

  14. #39
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    Exclamation Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    I agree, especially in Hawaii where we don't have Castle Doctrine. You can NOT shoot a person for merely breaking into your house or for stealing your property.

    None of this stupid: "I'll shot him and then drag him into the house." "I'll shoot him till he goes down and then shot him in the head so he can't testify or sue me." "He's in my house, so I can shoot him in the back."

    Do NOT let your emotions or ego control you; you WILL ruin your life by getting thrown in jail.
    Joe brings up a great point, and this quoted passage has a lot of meaning.

    I don't know how many times people accuse responsible gun owners of being the "type that would drag a body inside." First of all, we don't want him inside, whether he's dead or alive. Second of all, responsible gun owners KNOW when they can shoot, and will exercise their restraint more effectively than the naive accusor can only dream. The problem is people always assume that a burglar (already classified as a felon by legal definition) is only there to steal. More often than not a burglar will escalate his intentions when there is a moment of opportunity. If he broke in the first time with no repercussion, he'll come back again and eye a bigger prize. Yes, your TV looks nice... but so does your 14 year-old daughter. You as the homeowner are not obligated to determine what the burglar is thinking while he is unlawfully in your house. And if you don't think some fear is in your mind when someone you don't know is invading your place, then you're certainly more stoic than me.

    Next, on the topic of precedent, the use of a firearm implies the intent to inflict serious bodily harm and death. No one is trained to shoot arms or legs; you are trained to shoot center mass. Their survival is not your priority.

    While we're on the topic of survival... I can't help bit see the irony of how a defenseless person in the face of a criminal thinks they have an inkling of a chance of surviving. The phrase, "I'd rather by tried by 12 than carried by 6," is more of a survivalist attitude than the one so willing to give up so easily. But then again, for those of you who value life so much, I figure you'd rather have a ruined life in jail than to be killed so easily. At least you have a better chance with jurors than you do with morticians.
    And while this so-called false bravado 'may get me killed,' I had a better chance of fighting back over having NO CHANCE AT ALL. If criminals were intent on killing me (or anyone else in here), they might succeed. The TRUE survivalist will try to take them down before they take you down.
    Last edited by bjd392; January 30th, 2011 at 09:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    One of my favorite NRA quotes is that "often the mere presence of a firearm is adequate to prevent a crime." Obviously they mean the presence when held by a law-abiding citizen.

    I had that happen to me - I think I've already mentioned it here in an earlier thread - I had an attempted break-in. I sleep lightly. I got my gun and merely cocked the hammer (it was a revolver), and the intruder took off running - he recognized the sound.

    I called the police at 911 and told them. They asked, "Is he still there?" I said, No, and they said, "Well if he comes back, call us."

    No, they did not come and cruise the neighborhood looking for people out at 3am. Why bother?
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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  16. #41
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    I called the police at 911 and told them. They asked, "Is he still there?" I said, No, and they said, "Well if he comes back, call us."

    No, they did not come and cruise the neighborhood looking for people out at 3am. Why bother?
    How do you know they didn't cruise the neighborhood? They didn't say they weren't coming by, they said to call them if the intruder came back which I presume they didn't. And exactly what should they be looking for? Were they male or female, how old, physical description? It is not illegal to be out at 3am. What would you have the police do, stop every pedestrian and vehicle in your neighborhood and for a how long a time period? Yes, in my opinion, the police have better things to do. I suggest you go on a "ride along" with the police in your area like I have done at O dark thirty. Very interesting and very informative. It gave me a whole new appreciation for police officers. Sure there are some bad apples in the police but almost all are good people just like the rest of us.

    I thought you said you weren't permitted to own a gun? How do you know the intruder fled because you cocked your gun? Maybe the simple act of getting out of bed to investigate scared them off. I heard noises one night and got out of bed to investigate (I don't own any guns). It was a coyote and boy did I scare him off as I tripped over a chair in the dark and used my best Tongan swear words! I would have accidentally shot myself if I had a gun! I have a better chance of being struck by lightning on the golf course (I don't play golf) than I have a encountering an armed intruder in my neighborhood.

    Some of you guys are so paranoid it borders on neurotic.
    Last edited by matapule; January 31st, 2011 at 03:54 AM.
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  17. #42

    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    I don't own guns; I wish I could.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    I got my gun and merely cocked the hammer ...
    Brother Kaonohi, can you explain (as Brother Matapule noted already) the discrepancy in your statements? I'm sure it's not complicated.
    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I thought you said you weren't permitted to own a gun?

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    Angry Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    How do you know they didn't cruise the neighborhood? They didn't say they weren't coming by, they said to call them if the intruder came back which I presume they didn't. And exactly what should they be looking for? Were they male or female, how old, physical description? It is not illegal to be out at 3am.

    I thought you said you weren't permitted to own a gun? How do you know the intruder fled because you cocked your gun? Maybe the simple act of getting out of bed to investigate scared them off.

    Some of you guys are so paranoid it borders on neurotic.
    My, you do snap at the bait so quickly. Thank You!

    1. They had a description of the intruder I gave them. I sat up and watched until it was time to get up in the AM - I don't like to be caught unaware. Paranoid? Perhaps. Better paranoid than dead.

    2. This was before the 'Veterans disarmament act' that disarmed any Veterans who had any record of psychiatric counseling. I complained of memory impairment, a psych said it was PTSD. I went through the PTSD Recovery Program (TSRP - Traumatic Stress Recovery Program). I still have anterograde amnesia. I also have 'hypervigilance.' This means I awaken at odd hours when I hear an incongruous noise. I also notice EVERY-FG-THING around me, like keys on the road, indistinguishable trash, etc. And I usually stop to check it out. Most of my tools (sockets, screwdrivers, etc.), I picked up from the highway. My main job in Vietnam was mine sweep and booby-traps. I was the best. I still am. But the program helped me keep it in perspective.

    3. I was up silently and the intruder didn't react until I cocked my gun (which I can no longer own). It was obvious. I could move silently when needed, the intruder was tip-toeing until the gun was cocked, then he ran!

    4. I guess you must be a psychiatrist to be able to diagnose me as "paranoid." If not, please keep your armchair diagnoses to yourself. We Vietnam Veterans have been labeled incessantly - baby-killers, paranoids, traitors, and everything else. Unfairly, and mistakenly. How about saying "Welcome Home?" it's the one thing we never heard.

    You accused me of being a racist recently, I think you're as guilty of unfair classification - if not stated, it is obvious from your speech.

    And I was beginning to believe you were a 'matapule.'
    Last edited by Kaonohi; January 31st, 2011 at 03:19 PM.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Brother Kaonohi, can you explain (as Brother Matapule noted already) the discrepancy in your statements? I'm sure it's not complicated.
    I was allowed to own guns until the Veterans Disarmament Act was passed (HR 2640). Because I went through the TSRP, the Traumatic Stress Recovery Program, to help with memory and amnesia, all my firearms were confiscated. The agencies that monitor this stuff don't distinguish between 'hypervigilance (being aware of everything in your environment - like focused)' and schizophrenia (or any other disorder). If you are a Vet who has had mental health treatment, you are banned from owning weapons.

    According to Ms. Pelosi, you are next: "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in."

    That is, except for criminals; they can keep theirs.

    Doesn't sound fair, doesn't make sense, but there it is.
    Last edited by Kaonohi; January 31st, 2011 at 04:17 PM.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    My, you do snap at the bait so quickly. Thank You!
    I was under the impression you wanted an intelligent discussion. If you are baiting, you are just trolling like BJ. End of discussion!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  21. #46

    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    I was allowed to own guns until the Veterans Disarmament Act was passed (HR 2640).
    Thank you for the explanation; I suspected it was something along those lines.

  22. #47
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    Talking Re: Firearms in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I was under the impression you wanted an intelligent discussion. If you are baiting, you are just trolling like BJ. End of discussion!
    Well, I did want an intelligent discussion, but all I found were accusations, recriminations, allegations, doubts and general negativity from you.

    The 'bait' was Truth. I told the truth and you stormed in with recriminations and doubts. You showed your true colors. I doubt you even read or understood my answers to your accusations.

    I answered all of your "questions" and you come back with an attack? You accuse me of being a 'troll?' You are sorely out of touch with reality. I will accept your apology when you get your head back on straight. If your apology is sincere enough, I might even forgive you.

    I'm glad you are out of a discussion in which you cannot be objective.

    Bye bye.
    Last edited by Kaonohi; January 31st, 2011 at 10:37 PM.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    OK guys...

    I've seen people on BOTH sides of the gun debate:

    say reasonable things...
    say unreasonable things...
    make snide remarks...
    view the other as undeserving of respect...


    Instead of worrying about the other person, what we need to realize about ourselves is:

    1) Fear drives our beliefs. Anti-gun people are afraid of being harmed by people with guns. Gun people are afraid of being harmed if they don't have their guns. Fear is why we get defensive and lash out. Fear blinds us.

    2) We're ignorant creatures. There's a lot we don't know. There's even more we think we know but not really. We often choose to remain ignorant, to maintain our fear-based beliefs.

    3) We're lazy thinkers. We rather tell 10 people about some sensational statistic or claim we've read, instead of spending 10 minutes being critical of its validity. Critical thinking is hard work and no fun. It also threatens the foundations of the beliefs we hold dear.


    Stop trying to change the other person's mind, because odds are you can't. You're just gonna get frustrated and angry. Get comfortable with the idea that people will believe you're wrong. Maybe they're partly right...

    What you can do is chip away at the ignorance; yours and theirs. You don't have to agree with the other person, but try to understand where they're coming from. Conversely, show the other person where you're coming from, and be prepared for them to disregard it.


    And go watch something funny.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
    "
    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Nah, in arguments in which they can't win, they just call the victors trolls. Never mind that a majority of the posts I put up in this forum are factual, and in many cases, irrefutable. But if facts create a nuisance to those who can't handle them, then I'll gladly accept the title of "troll." But in examining the amount of restraint I place on all of my posts (with the exception of that one that's allegedly the 'troll' post), I am nowhere near the name-calling, whining nuisances of some people here who insist on living on a high horse while trudging in the muck.

    Even some of the posters here have disclaimers in their signature blocks that admit they will post things that people disagree with, and too bad for you if you feel offended. Guess what? Too bad for you if you feel offended by what I say too. Unfortunately for you, I don't have a track-record of being a board troll; just a track record of posting comments that are not in agreement with a majority of other people here. I should be more concerned of some of you guys being trolls, because some of these posts are just irritating and annoying, and really try to make yourself look better while adding absolutely no value; but, I'm not going to baby out and go name-calling just because one of them seems a little more over the line than one's tolerance can take.

    I discuss this board with people in the real living and breathing world, and even show these threads to some of my friends. As despicible as you think some of my comments are, MANY PEOPLE AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS, and actually pity you.

    Otherwise, if I feel there's something I should take down, I have my own edit button, and I can take it down myself. But I usually don't feel that way after hitting the Submit Reply button.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Firearms in the USA

    Hey looky here:

    Some guy tries to take on a police station with a shotgun. He didn't get very far.

    It seems he had complete surprise. No one noticed him until he got off the first shot(s), at point blank range. I wonder if he knew you actually have to aim a shotgun? Maybe he thought all four officers would go POOF with the first shot? Too much video game training.

    A video of a police commentary on the video.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
    "
    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

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