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  • Republican Spending Cuts

    We all remember Econ 101, right? If you have a depression or a recession, the way out of it is for the federal government to hire and pay lots of people to stimulate the economy. We are in a very serious recession, it could have become a depression, it still could. So why now of all times would Republicans want to cut federal spending, cut federal programs, cut federal employment? To be sure, we could balance the budget, probably rather easily, actually, by ending two wars we never needed and raising tax rates on the rich to what they were under President Clinton. But no, that would be too easy, they say, we must cut employment now, in a slow recovery from a serious recession. Doesn't this sound just a little fishy to you? A little suspicious? Its almost as if they want the economy to tank. Why would anyone possibly want that with a Presidential election two years away? This strategy is a sick, evil, anti patriotic,vicious anti American strategy, its the grossest, most evil politics you ever see, destroying the economy, destroying peoples' lives just for political advantage. It is a monument to evil politics.

  • #2
    Re: Republican Spending Cuts

    You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it has been my experience that to demonize those who disagree with me is not the way to help them see my side. Rather than throw words like "evil" and "vicious" around, perhaps it might be more productive to ask people why they might support such an approach?

    I'm mostly with you: while I think that certain federal programs need to be bolstered in times of economic stress, I also think the federal government is far too large, expensive, and invasive. There are many needs the federal government is forced to deal with because state governments find it easier to pass the burden to the nation, rather than to deal with things where they might more effectively be handled.

    I'm no economist, but my feeling is that cutting federal expenses so that states and the private citizenry have more money to work with is a better way to deal with social issues. Perhaps I am wrong, but does that make me evil, or does that just make me wrong?
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

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    • #3
      Re: Republican Spending Cuts

      I apologize for getting carried away and flailing away with emotional words. You are right. I agree that the gvt. is too intrusive, we see Republicans only want it to be even moreso with their attention to restricting a woman's right to choice even further with three bills in the House, which was supposedly going to tackle the unemployment problem. Eliminating gvt. intrusiveness could be done without destroying a lot of jobs, spying on peoples' e mail is a lot different from funding infrastructure repairs, fondling air passengers privates is a lot different from preventing epidemics. Note that the EPA is to suffer especially heavy cuts, that would be to benefit polluters/campaign contributors at the expense of the precious unborn and those who will come down with diseases our overtaxed medical system will have to deal with. It may not be evil, it may not be vicious. It certainly is shortsighted and wrong. Dare I say cruel?

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      • #4
        Re: Republican Spending Cuts

        Originally posted by scrivener View Post
        I also think the federal government is far too large, expensive, and invasive.?

        Scriv, I've assked you this in the past and you refuse to answer. What programs are you going to cut? The big three programs in the Federal government which take up the majority of spending are the military, social security, and medicare. You can cut some other other minor programs but that is like pi$$ing in the ocean as far as significnt cuts to the budget. So which of the "big three" are you going to cut? It is one thing to complain about Federal spending but it is whole nother thing to come up with a viable program. Let's see if you will answer this time.

        The Rethug spending cuts are of little consequence in making big cuts in Federal spending. The proposed cuts are nothing more than punitive - like putting lipstick on a pig.
        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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        • #5
          Re: Republican Spending Cuts

          Thinking about it, risking throwing the country into a depression, or cutting off a recovery from a recession, does qualify as reckless and irresponsible and unbelievably selfish. Too bad its what the people voted for. Live and learn. Or maybe its live and suffer and never learn anything.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Republican Spending Cuts

            Hmmmm....... Here's my take on the "big 3". I'd first cut military. Don't believe in war and certainly not big weapons. I think the recent protests in Egypt should be held up as an example to all. At least those who started it. Notice that they did not need to go in with guns blazing to make their point. Secondly, I'd cut medicare. I believe western "medicine" has gotten so far out of control that in many respects they are doing more harm than good. Then I would put some of the excess that would result from deeply slashing the first two of the big 3 into social security. We need to honor our elderly and afford them a comfortable existence.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Republican Spending Cuts

              Thanks AL, it takes mangos to put your principles out there, something that is sorely lacking in some quarters.

              You touch on some interesting topics that merit reasonable discussion. I think it is obvious that the military is the bloated pig in the equation. But let's talk about Medicare. Uaifi and I are Medicare recipients. We each pay about $100 per month for a bit less than Cadilac service (more like Honda or Toyota service - affordable but yet dependable and reliable) I would NOT be willing to have my services cut, but I would be willing to pay more, maybe twice as much. But I know some elderly that are having trouble even paying the $100. The reason is that they are using SocSec as their ONLY retirement benefit. When SocSec was adopted back in the '30's it was intended to be a supplemental retirement income system. Today, retirees fail to plan for their retirement future and consequently depend soley on SocSec for their retirement income. It is a conundrum!

              Anyway, I think you have given this some thought and your ideas certainly merit serious discussion.
              Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

              People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Republican Spending Cuts

                Originally posted by matapule View Post
                Thanks AL, it takes mangos to put your principles out there, something that is sorely lacking in some quarters.

                You touch on some interesting topics that merit reasonable discussion. I think it is obvious that the military is the bloated pig in the equation. But let's talk about Medicare. Uaifi and I are Medicare recipients. We each pay about $100 per month for a bit less than Cadilac service (more like Honda or Toyota service - affordable but yet dependable and reliable) I would NOT be willing to have my services cut, but I would be willing to pay more, maybe twice as much. But I know some elderly that are having trouble even paying the $100. The reason is that they are using SocSec as their ONLY retirement benefit. When SocSec was adopted back in the '30's it was intended to be a supplemental retirement income system. Today, retirees fail to plan for their retirement future and consequently depend soley on SocSec for their retirement income. It is a conundrum!

                Anyway, I think you have given this some thought and your ideas certainly merit serious discussion.
                Why thank you. I pride myself on standing on my principles. Don't really have much else.

                My problem with medicare is really a much deeper problem with the "philosophy" of western medicine. I realize that I view the system from outside the box - it is the only way I know how. I have see far too many people, young, old and everywhere in-between be over tested, over procedured and over medicated. In my dream world of greatly reducing medicare (notice I said dream world) does not mean raising the cost for retirees. In fact, any cost to the retiree should be eliminated. Seniors can't afford the drugs?? Why are they on drugs? It is a vicious cycle. The general mindset is "well, I agree with you, but in my case I really need mine."

                Take something simple, say, a headache. What do you (the general you, not you personally) do for it? I would look at why I had a headache, first and foremost. Then try to treat the cause, not the symptom. Treating the cause can almost always be remedied through natural means. But popping a pill is easier, isn't it? But popping the pill causes unforeseen side effects. So you go to the doctor, who gives you another pill to get rid of the symptom. But that pill quietly destroys an organ. Now you have to have surgery. Because you don't have said organ, now you have to take another pill to do the job of the organ. But you get side effects from that pill which affects organ B. So now you have to take two pills to live. But that pill has even more side effects and......well, you get the picture. Or maybe not...........

                Should Social Security be the only income? Probably not. And I guess if I'm going to have a dream world of people turning against the "health machine" that runs our economy, then they'd also have the sense to save for retirement

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Republican Spending Cuts

                  The alleged Republicans want to cut spending?

                  War is VERY expensive! We have two ongoing, and I'm not sure what for.

                  Daily, our 'boys' (young men and women) come back with permanent life-altering disabilities; they gave up a chance at a 'normal' life to be patriotic - so what does our government do?

                  It introduces a bill to cut back veterans' benefits and care.

                  "WASHINGTON, D.C., January 28, 2011 — America’s oldest and largest major combat veterans’ organization announced it will do everything within its power to defeat a plan introduced by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) to cut $4.5 billion from the Department of Veterans Affairs.

                  On her website, the three-term congresswoman lists more than $400 billion in suggestions to cut federal spending. The VA suggestion would cap increases to VA healthcare spending, and reduce disability compensation to account for Social Security Disability Insurance payments — in other words, an offset. She says her plan is intended to generate discussion."

                  Or perhaps to generate disgust?

                  Sure. Enlist our citizens to fight in the politicians' wars with false promises, then afterward abandon your promises, and abandon your disabled veterans.

                  We are merely cannon fodder, after all is said and done.
                  Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                  ~ ~
                  Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                  Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                  Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Republican Spending Cuts

                    Republicans are NOT planning on cutting approximately $7 BILLION in subsidies to the highly profitable oil companies that have now given us the highest gas prices in history. They ARE planning on cutting the EPA. What can I say about people who would vote for this, I mean the Americans who voted to put these people in office. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Republican Spending Cuts

                      Originally posted by acousticlady View Post
                      ...............Why are they on drugs? It is a vicious cycle.
                      AL, excellent points, all of them. This POV is sure not to make friends in some quarters, but you are being upfront. I generally agree with you. I try to avoid trips to the doctor by gettiing lots of hard exercize and eating a healthy, solid diet. I have dropped 40 pounds since last July and reduced my reliance on statins by 50%. In another 6 months I should be at my weight goal and off statins completely.

                      The general mindset is "well, I agree with you, but in my case I really need mine."
                      Ain't that the truth! Read what a poster wrote immediately after yours!

                      Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                      Daily, our 'boys' (young men and women) come back with permanent life-altering disabilities; they gave up a chance at a 'normal' life to be patriotic - so what does our government do?.
                      K, you appear to agree with many Tea Bagger principles, they say it is not the government's responsibility. You cannot have it both ways. And this is where the wheels fall off the Bagger cart, they want it both ways. Do you want a big Federal beaucracy to fund epensive programs like Veteran's Affairs or do you want to compalin about governement spending?

                      And I do not agree that fighting in an unjust war is "patriotic." You should have been patriotic and said, "hot damn, Viet Nam, hell no, I won't go!"

                      Or are these just more statements to bait, as you admitted in the gun thread? I thought you wanted sincere and intelligent debate on these difficult subjects, but I was apparently wrong. Fool me once, your fault, fool me twice, my fault.

                      K, I have lost all confidence in your sincereity.
                      Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                      People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Republican Spending Cuts

                        Just a look at the decisions our system is making: the $7 billion tax payer funded subsidy to already hugely profitable oil companies will not be cut, but here in San Diego the school board is firing 500 teachers for lack of money. Probably similar numbers in districts around the country. These are not rational decisions, the system cannot continue to exist making decisions like this to say nothing of the impact against struggling families. Congressional Republicans have made it clear they intend to cut the Department of Education to the very bone and ideally they would like to eliminate it entirely. And keep those precious subsidies to the precious oil giants. There is only so much you can do. Just wave goodbye as it all sinks beneath the waves of history and hope something better comes along. Hard to see how it could involve letting people vote. Maybe a self perpetuating system like the Catholic or Mormon hierarchies would be better.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Republican Spending Cuts

                          Originally posted by matapule View Post
                          Scriv, I've assked you this in the past and you refuse to answer.
                          On the contrary, I've never refused to answer a question you've asked. If I failed to answer, it was probably due to my dropping out of whatever thread you asked it in. I try to get in on these threads early while the discussions still make sense and then I usually bail when they get repetitive. I wouldn't even have jumped in on this one except that I found the language and name-calling in the original post especially distasteful.

                          What programs are you going to cut?
                          Oh, I wouldn't stop merely at programs. I would cut entire departments, even channeling some of the money saved directly back to states, if that what it took. What if we cut the Department of Education, for example, and then gave 25% of its budget back to the states, split up fifty ways according to need? The federal government gets out of education and the states get fairly decent seed-money to address their own educational needs, whatever they happen to be.

                          I'm not saying this is one thing I would do, but it's the type of thing I would do. Give me a few days to think about it.

                          It is one thing to complain about Federal spending but it is whole nother thing to come up with a viable program. Let's see if you will answer this time.
                          I believe I've made clear in other threads my libertarian leanings. Whether something is viable or not seems to be the kind of thing libertarians and non-libertarians simply cannot agree on, at least on that huge a scale. I would cut most of the cabinet-level departments and send MOST (not all!) of the programs overseen by them back to the states. I would jack up military spending but bring an end to our current wars immediately.

                          There are certain things we need to maintain at a federal level that I would keep, with apologies to my more hardcore libertarian brethren. OSHA, for example, is the kind of thing that makes us a better country than I believe many states would allow, the kind of thing that contributes to our identity as the land of the free. But the rest of the DoL? Slash. Education? Slash. Most of HHS? Slash. Most of HUD? Slash. Most (if not all) of Homeland Security? Slash.
                          But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                          GrouchyTeacher.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Republican Spending Cuts

                            Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                            Oh, I wouldn't stop merely at programs. I would cut entire departments, even channeling some of the money saved directly back to states, if that what it took. What if we cut the Department of Education, for example, and then gave 25% of its budget back to the states, split up fifty ways according to need? The federal government gets out of education and the states get fairly decent seed-money to address their own educational needs, whatever they happen to be..............I would cut most of the cabinet-level departments and send MOST (not all!) of the programs overseen by them back to the states. I would jack up military spending but bring an end to our current wars immediately.

                            There are certain things we need to maintain at a federal level that I would keep, with apologies to my more hardcore libertarian brethren. OSHA, for example, is the kind of thing that makes us a better country than I believe many states would allow, the kind of thing that contributes to our identity as the land of the free. But the rest of the DoL? Slash. Education? Slash. Most of HHS? Slash. Most of HUD? Slash. Most (if not all) of Homeland Security? Slash.
                            Okay, you have laid it on the table and I have some comments.

                            Increase military spending? Why? I saw a picture on the Internet yesterday of 12 soldiers stationed in Germany. They were all clinically obese (that's not what the picture was about, but matapule couldn't help but notice.) They are symbolic of the military, horribly obese. These guys would have trouble defending a Twinkie, let alone the USA. I would cut the VA. I would make military retirement 40 years not 20. I would cut the GI Bill. I would stop PX benefits. And that's just a start, let's not put any more lipstick on that pig.

                            Put the States in charge of spending? What makes you think the State governments are any more responsible than the Federal government? As an educator, you know that the Civil War was about State's rights, not slavery per se. Scriv, that battle has already been fought and your side lost. The Federal government plays a decisive and vital role in evening out the State's diverse interests and priorities and no amount of Libertarian complaining is going to change that. We need a strong Federal government to represent the best interest of all citizens including conservatives, liberals, libertarians, and universalist-unitarians.

                            Cut Education? I would increase spending at all levels, not cut it. But I would also end the teachers special interest groups (unions), require they teach year round, increase their salary, and they be required to pass an annual oral and written competancy exam. My sister-in-law is a retired teacher at the elementary level (and a dedicated one at that). She said that at one staff meeting, one of her colleagues said, "when I was a kid, they taught us there were 48 states, but I'm not sure how many there are now." That teacher should have been fired on the spot.

                            Keep OSHA? As Acoustic Lady says, "well, I agree with you, but in my case I really need mine." Scriv, you cannot have it both ways. You either cut everything or you cut nothing. It is just like our legislators with their pet projects, "everybody else's pet project is pork, but mine is essential to my district."

                            Anyway, you have laid some talking points out there and that is good. Let's see if your ideas stand up to scrutiny. Let's see if my ideas stand up to scrutiny.
                            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Republican Spending Cuts

                              Originally posted by matapule View Post
                              K, I have lost all confidence in your sincereity.
                              Maka, I think you have lost your objectivity when reading my posts, and read into them what you want to see. You can lose your matapule rating for that, no?

                              And now I feel like you are baiting me, and I won't bite. My sincerity is intact, my judgement may be questionable. Evidently you didn't understand my post at all; I think your anger is clouding your interpretation. Are you still seething because I found no justifiable reason to apologise to Frankie? Before that, we used to be friends.

                              I stand by what I say: if the government conscripts you when you're a dumb 19-year old and you are disabled doing their job, it is unconscionable to dump them in the streets to fend for themselves.

                              If you don't want to pay the price, don't start wars.

                              So you want to cut the VA? Why don't you also lobby to cut Social Security and Medicare while you're at it? Why should just veterans suffer?
                              Last edited by Kaonohi; February 11, 2011, 12:21 PM.
                              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                              ~ ~
                              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

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