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Thread: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

  1. #26

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    Coal, Oil, and Nukes.....Really Josh?

    Are you 85 years old or something? My goodness gracious.
    As much as I'm sure you're thinking other alternatives such as solar, wind, geo, hydro, etc; you need to be realistic. Half of the US is powered by coal. Oil dominates our island state. So consider those points and the death toll of oil and coal. Nuclear is neither worse or better. Alternatives still have costs issues and a bigger issue of NIMBYs to deal with before they can really start to make significant headway into current energy portfolios. Just look at all the commotion over proposed wind farms on neighbor islands.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    You must not have too many years of 'seeing' racked up yet. We've merely been lucky so far in toying with nuke roulette, and eventually the round will be chambered.
    This is amusing. I've got timkona suggesting I've got too many years. How many years has it been since Chernobyl and now Fukushima? This isn't to say nuclear can't be dangerous but start looking at the statistics of casualties related to other energy forms like coal and oil. It puts a lot into perspective. How many years and how many vessels have the US Navy been operating that's nuclear? How many accidents? What wasn't done with these older reactors is a design that emphasizes passive safety features.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Your arguments are on paper thin ice and cracking. The recent Gulf oil spill could have been catostrophic for the entire planet had it not been fixed, and the gulf is wasted from just one well. A comparable nuke mess and it's a world-wide sayonara baby! We might be watching the end of Japan as we've known it if they don't get a handle on this unfolding mess. And it's not legit to compare the US NAVY's highest grade nuke competence vs anybody else, they are in way different leagues.
    Last edited by Ron Whitfield; March 31st, 2011 at 04:48 PM.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Ron, I don't get it - how many nuclear reactors and how much plutonium has the U.S. Navy lost and failed to recover? The answer is more than none, which speaks to their utter lack of competence in my book.
    May I always be found beneath your contempt.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    That's a differing kind of in/competence. I'm not a fan of the USN, they've polluted this planet outrageously.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Your arguments are on paper thin ice and cracking. The recent Gulf oil spill could have been catostrophic for the entire planet had it not been fixed, and the gulf is wasted from just one well. A comparable nuke mess and it's a world-wide sayonara baby! We might be watching the end of Japan as we've known it if they don't get a handle on this unfolding mess. And it's not legit to compare the US NAVY's highest grade nuke competence vs anybody else, they are in way different leagues.
    What? It's not legit to compare to the US Navy on the issue of nuclear? Does nuclear actually differentiate on that level? Weren't you saying a comparable nuke mess and it's a world-wide sayonara?

    As you've pointed out, the recent Gulf oil spill had just as much potential to be catastrophic. Which is why nuclear is nether better or worse. People get emotional when it comes to the dangers of nuclear because it can't be seen.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    What? It's not legit to compare to the US Navy on the issue of nuclear? Does nuclear actually differentiate on that level? Weren't you saying a comparable nuke mess and it's a world-wide sayonara?

    As you've pointed out, the recent Gulf oil spill had just as much potential to be catastrophic. Which is why nuclear is nether better or worse. People get emotional when it comes to the dangers of nuclear because it can't be seen.
    It's a higher level of control, minimizing risk factors, and the expertise in handling situations, than our privatized for profit gang, big dif.

    A catastrophy is a mega serious problem to be dealt with, whereas bye bye means there is no longer a problem, because were all dead.

    Actually, one reason nuke has been allowed to continue is because we don't see many of the negative effects til long after. Out of sight, out of mind, until it's too late. The oil was immediate and in your face, gushing on TV non-stop, creeping onto coasts, killing wildlife and jobs with daily public fury, remember? Then they capped it and most of America went back to American Idol, without the annoying distractions. Had that been a comparable nuke release there would be no more contestants or producers or stupid TV shows. Hey..., maybe we should go nuke!

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    An oil spill, no matter how large, is peanuts compared to the THOUSANDS OF YEARS damage of a nuclear accident.

    Sun, Wind, Water, Thermal, Geo, Hydrogen, Hydrino, Magnetic, list goes on and on.
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  9. #34

    Default glow in the dark pigs knuckles, eat up!

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    Sun, Wind, Water, Thermal, Geo, Hydrogen, Hydrino, Magnetic, list goes on and on.
    And none of them do this http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_germany_radioactive_boars

  10. #35
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    Talking Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
    Lesson on the trace amounts of plutonium will be the next lecture
    Thanks, A.L., It's GOOD for us to know where the dangers are, and where they are not.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    An oil spill, no matter how large, is peanuts compared to the THOUSANDS OF YEARS damage of a nuclear accident.

    Sun, Wind, Water, Thermal, Geo, Hydrogen, Hydrino, Magnetic, list goes on and on.
    That's great but again, what percentage do these sources constitute the energy portfolio? Until there is meaningful change in portfolio, your evil fossil fuel and nuclear will be providing that power that drives your daily routines.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Fukushima is fading slowly from the news. Notice that? Cleanup will take years, and cost gazzillions. Cesium, Plutonium, Iodine, Uranium, Strontium, none of those are healthy.

    Ol'Bammy just signed legislation last year for MORE nuclear plants in the USA. He said he did this because of the environmental problems associated with fossil fuels. Sierra Club praised the decision. I'm in hysterics over the irony this creates for the folks who voted for Ol' Bammy. I know you guys don't get it. It's okay.

    Why is it that the folks who profess to love the environment are the same folks who do the most to damage it?
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  13. #38

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    I'm in hysterics over the irony this creates for the folks who voted for Ol' Bammy. I know you guys don't get it. It's okay.
    Whew, relief! I hope that holds true when I help re-elect yo-mammy.

  14. #39
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    Cool Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    When our technology began to expand, the worst we could expect (in terms of accidents) was that we would slice ourselves on the sharp edges of our obsidian blades.
    Now we have advanced to the point where we can poison large sections of our population with radioactive elements.

    PROGRESS! Our most important product....

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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  15. #40

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    We talked a bit earlier about robots being used at the plant, and that is happening. A robotic helicopter with a camera hovered over the plant, sending pictures of the damage so experts can assess what the damage is, evidently the pics will be made public Monday. Also remote controlled equipment is being used in some repair operations. There is not much news coverage on the story right now, I wonder if that means the situation is stabalizing, I hope so!

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    Ol'Bammy just signed legislation last year for MORE nuclear plants in the USA. He said he did this because of the environmental problems associated with fossil fuels. Sierra Club praised the decision. I'm in hysterics over the irony this creates for the folks who voted for Ol' Bammy. I know you guys don't get it. It's okay.
    Where does that leave us who voted for Obama but are opposed to nucular (sic) power with present safeguards? Nuclear power is fine given proper design and oversight!

    BTW, your racial inferences are offensive.

    My SIL watched as a concrete pumper truck with a 70 foot boom was loaded on an air transport at LAX on Friday. Two of these behemoths were flown to Fukushima on Friday to attempt to plug the leak(s) with concrete. Interestingly, they were flown on Russian designed aircraft, evidently the only aircraft capable of the task.

    Fukushima is fading slowly from the news.
    No, Fukushima has not faded from my radar.

    Why is it that the folks who profess to love the environment are the same folks who do the most to damage it?
    That general statement is utterly and obviously senseless, illogical, and untrue; contrary to all reason and common sense; laughably foolish and false. It should win some sort of prize for absurdity!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  17. #42

    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    An opinion piece on nuclear power which I think puts things in perspective.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    I heard some tsunami walls weren't able to hold at their rated wave heights, because the earthquake dropped the land by 3 feet! Nature has a way of messing with our best laid plans and calculations.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
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    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    First of all, let me start this post with a political clarification of the source of some of my opinions......

    I'm a RepubiCRAT, who leans right fiscally, left socially, and towards the future technologically. I truly believe that technology will save us from ourselves in the long run, even if we screw up in the short run.

    Mata, my Ol'Bammy reference is purely Skynard, and by no means racial. You should know that about me by now.

    If your support of the President conflicts with his support of nuclear energy, then simply try to be a voice of reason. Help him get smarter, and change his mind.

    As for environmentalists whose policies are damaging to the environment....
    think about this....

    In Hawaii, we have lots of folks who blissfully believe that recycling in Hawaii is a great idea. But have you seen any Aluminum Smelters? And who do you think would protest the very notion of the construction of a Glass Factory? Or a plastics melting facility to make picnic benches?

    You see, in the last 35 years, environmentalism has created so many COSTLY impediments to construction, that even the US infrastructure is crumbling right before our eyes because we can no longer afford the EIS, SMA, Conservation Permit, Shoreline Survey, Public Hearings, Civil Lawsuits, etc etc etc. Try build a SCHOOL on a burial site in Hawaii. Not likely.

    The matapule doth protest too loudly methinks.
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  20. #45
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    In Hawaii, we have lots of folks who blissfully believe that recycling in Hawaii is a great idea. But have you seen any Aluminum Smelters? And who do you think would protest the very notion of the construction of a Glass Factory? Or a plastics melting facility to make picnic benches?
    So what is your solution, do nothing? Don't even try?

    You see, in the last 35 years, environmentalism has created so many COSTLY impediments to construction, that even the US infrastructure is crumbling right before our eyes because we can no longer afford the EIS, SMA, Conservation Permit, Shoreline Survey, Public Hearings, Civil Lawsuits, etc etc etc. Try build a SCHOOL on a burial site in Hawaii. Not likely.
    So what do you attribute cleaner air, cleaner water, and improved industrial safety to, if not environmental activism? I sure do miss all that asbestos from my early school years! Ah, but heck, it costs to much to remove it and build without it, so let's start using it again.

    But back on topic, today, the Nuclear Regulatory Agency refused to renew the permit for Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant, (the one that's built on an active fault) until additional studies can be completed. I bet that's going to cost a few bucks, those dayam environmentalists!

    The matapule doth protest too loudly methinks.
    He doesn't protest nearly loud enough to those that are deaf.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

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  22. #47
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    Talking Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    So what do you attribute cleaner air, cleaner water, and improved industrial safety to, if not environmental activism?
    Certainly environmental activism is an important force in our current world environmental culture, but for Hawai`i, it's also important to remember that we are a bunch of islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, far distant from most sources of pollution.
    THAT is what I most attribute our "cleaner air, cleaner water, and improved industrial safety to."
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  23. #48
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Check this out. Its a few years old, but the photos are remarkable. They're taken by a Soviet girl who has access to the Chernobyl nuclear disaster site. Click on 'beginning' and scroll thru the chapters. Enjoy!

    From her notes - "Children had to part with their favourite toys. People had to leave everything, from photos of their grandparents to cars. Their clothes, cash and passports has all been changed by state authorities. Incredibly, people had homes, motorcycles, garages, cars, country houses, they had money, friends and relatives. People had their lives. Each had their own niche. And then in a matter of hours , their entire world fell to pieces."
    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Mata, thanks for being so cool. Love that part about you.

    I am simply against Nuclear Power. I realize fossil fuels are bad also. We are starting to get into the "CRAT" part of my politics here, so trust me, in many ways we are on the same page.

    But I say no to nuclear power.....cleanup and decommission what we have now...and do it before the next catastrophe takes place.

    PS - Just a little hint of what's to come. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfUhvmsGHws
    Last edited by timkona; April 13th, 2011 at 11:39 AM.
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    Unhappy Re: Fukushima I nuclear accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by turtlegirl View Post
    the photos are remarkable. They're taken by a Soviet girl who has access to the Chernobyl nuclear disaster site.
    Quite sobering. Thanks, TG!

    Another of Elena's quotes that struck me:

    "In Ukrainian language ( where we don't like to say "the") Chernobyl is the name of a grass, wormwood (absinth). This word scares the holy bejesus out of people here. Maybe part of the reason for that among religious people is because the Bible mentions Wormwood in the book of the revelatons - which fortells the end of the world....

    REV 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
    REV 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. "

    Some estimates hold that perhaps hundreds of thousands of people died because of Chernobyl (directly and indirectly), official sources claim only about 6,000. (Only??)
    How many will die from Fukushima? Poor Japan got the 1-2-3 punch: earthquake, tsunami, nuke.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

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