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Thread: Shameless marketing

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Scriv, does it not apply to "it" because "it" is a pronoun?
    That might be a way to remember the convention, since other possessive pronouns in -s also lack apostrophe: his, theirs, yours, ours. But I don't think it's actually sensible -- it's just its own tradition.

    Here's one that I find harder: when do you use "s'" (s + apostrophe) at the end of a word, as opposed to "s's" (s + apostrophe + s)? And how does that correspond to the pronunciation?
    Greg

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    Adam his rib.
    Mel his diner.

    Nowadays, we say Adam's rib and Mel's diner, and we can see why there's an apostrophe there: the letters H and I have been removed to contract those phrases.
    That's an interesting theory. I thought "-'s" possessives came from an earlier genitive ending "-es" by loss of the vowel.

    Edit: I see that Wikipedia gives some rather unenthusiastic recognition to your theory, however: The 18th century explanation that the apostrophe might replace a genitive pronoun, as in "the king’s horse" being a shortened form of "the king, his horse", is doubtful. This his genitive appears in English only for a relatively brief time, and was never the most common form.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive_case
    Last edited by GregLee; May 8th, 2011 at 12:30 PM.
    Greg

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    By the way, has anyone besides me bought Susie's story and/or put a review of it on Amazon?
    Greg

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    And now you guys are all busted for hijacking this thread.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by lurkah View Post
    And now you guys are all busted for hijacking this thread.
    Pfft - you started it (and we were all happy to follow...)!

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Lurkah, is stirring up things since he can SEE now!! *L*

    Read all of Susie's stories when she first started her blog then she stopped. She had a list on tap but never got around to doing them. Always looked forward to more. Really good, entertaining reads.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    By the way, has anyone besides me bought Susie's story and/or put a review of it on Amazon?
    I bought the guineahen story today and plan to read it tomorrow, followed by my review. I hope Susie wanted honesty, because I'm going to give it a fair review, highlighting positives but pointing out negatives, if I should run into any.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
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  8. #33
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Okay, I just bought one of Susie’s stories. I hope to read it soon. One thing you lose when you self-publish is marketing and advertising, so the name of this thread is spot on--Shameless Marketing. You have to do it. So no shame, Susie--advertise it! Apparently, this thread has done its job.

    Publishing is going through a tremendous amount of change. With print on demand (POD), it’s becoming very easy and affordable to have a book published. I recently oversaw the publishing of a hard-cover book for our company. Quite an experience. And Hawaii Threads recently had an example of a self-published book being advertised here (remember that little episode?). And now we have e-books, which is taking it up several more notches.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Dear Gregory Lee and ST Grump....

    I have no idea who you really are (well, I suspect I know who Grump is because of his Amazon wishlist), but I would like to thank you both for leaving such lovely reviews on one of my Amazon Kindle ebook pages....How to Kill a Guineahen. It was so kind of you to take the time to each leave a thoughtful and kind review.

    Mahalo and Merci.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    Dear Gregory Lee and ....

    I have no idea who you really are ...
    I am me. De nada.
    Greg

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    My review hasn't yet posted to the story's page, but it is showing up in my profile.

    I like it, but I'm a tough grader. I hope that my review is seen as I meant it: mostly good but with a few flaws and worth the purchase price.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
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  12. #37
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Aw, Scrivener, that's beautiful! And so diplomatic at the end, too....will you marry me? Or at least consent to being my editor?

    Seriously. I just can't handle punctuation, among other things. Someone once said that reading my stories was like risking whiplash and then I tore out my hair trying to get rid of some of it and, well...
    Last edited by SusieMisajon; May 22nd, 2011 at 08:41 PM.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Now I'm going to go and see just exactly what 'ellipses' are...

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    Now I'm going to go and see just exactly what 'ellipses' are...
    Ah....I think I get it.....

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    I'm glad. Have you noticed that you seldom see ellipses in anything that's in print form, except to indicate that words have been removed? As a device to indicate a pause or a trailing thought, it's something you see in three-dot columns and in informal writing all the time, but you'll almost never see it in formal published writing.
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  16. #41
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I'm glad. Have you noticed that you seldom see ellipses in anything that's in print form, except to indicate that words have been removed? As a device to indicate a pause or a trailing thought, it's something you see in three-dot columns and in informal writing all the time, but you'll almost never see it in formal published writing.
    I have noticed. But I haven't really found anything else that I'm happy with as a substitute.

    Maybe an editor would be the best kind of 'substitute'. Have you noticed that you have a pm?

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Susie - part of the charm of your writing is its style. I would hate to see that change.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Susie - part of the charm of your writing is its style. I would hate to see that change.
    Haha! Maybe he didn't mean that I talk too much, but that I just needed to comb my hair and straighten my tie a bit in order to be 'presentable'?

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Susie - part of the charm of your writing is its style. I would hate to see that change.
    I believe I made it clear in my brief review that I also really like Susie's style and narrative voice. My mechanical issues revolve more around the standard use of the punctuation with which she marks that style. I'm sure you would agree that a sentence should end with a period, question mark, or exclamation point, rather than just a double space.
    Last edited by scrivener; May 25th, 2011 at 07:32 AM.
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  20. #45
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    No, I don't agree. The story is more important to me than an exclamation point. But then, I don't use the most perfect grammar or punctuation myself so I don't waste time criticizing others lack thereof. I think a lot of Susie's "style" is the fact that it is NOT perfect and that she just lets the story flow.

    wasn't there a very famous writer (e.e. cummins?) who didn't use much punctuation?
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  21. #46

    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    I believe I made it clear in my brief review that I also really like Susie's style and narrative voice. My mechanical issues revolve more around the standard use of the punctuation with which she marks that style. I'm sure you would agree that a sentence should end with a period, question mark, or exclamation point, rather than just a double space.
    In other words - having the eyes of an editor (or even a friend educated in good writing) look over your work can be a big plus. It's a challenge in the world of self-publishing, but not necessarily a major obstacle. A good editor will offer clarification and help without making you lose your writing voice.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    I missed endmarks? Haha! Much better than giving readers whiplash with too much punctuation, I guess. There's a tiny hope inside me that it was the formatting for Kindle tool, as I could swear I put in the exact same copy that I posted here. But who knows, as I will admit to going crazy, trying to take out some punctuation to avoid reader whiplash.

    Seriously, I'm hoping that Scrivener really will do me the honour of being my 'mechanic', as I have no idea of the ins and outs of doing all this 'properly'. I'm pretty sure that he and I could work well together because he likes my work already, even the way it is, and I like his perfectionist ways. Together, I'm positive that my stories would be just the same old me and this same old town, but maybe with a shiny polish to them.

    To tell the truth, his isn't the only review that's mentioned my faults. I had a humiliating one on a short story blog, last week. It took me days to get over that one. I considered quitting, or hiding under the bed, kicking the dog or yelling at the kids, putting a 'Caveat Emptor' into the blurb and warning readers to go ahead at their own risk, getting drunk or going off to find some dubious, anonymous sex (joke), and in the end decided to take it as it was given and find an editor. Especially after one of my friends here said to me that my job is only to write and the editors job is only to edit and to just let that part go so that I can get on with writing more stories, before all the people in town die out and their lives are forgotten.
    Last edited by SusieMisajon; May 25th, 2011 at 10:00 AM.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    The story is more important to me than an exclamation point.
    Absolutely. Proper punctuation serves the story; it doesn't get in its way.

    I think a lot of Susie's "style" is the fact that it is NOT perfect and that she just lets the story flow.
    I agree that it's got a nice flow, but good flow is ensured by proper mechanics. In the sentence I quote in my review, there is a verb missing in one of the clauses. Many people might not notice, but I'm assuming Susie wants her story to flow for everyone, even people who would notice. The flow of that sentence was interrupted by my having to go back and re-read it three or four times to make sure I understood what she was saying. I'd bet huge money that inserting the missing verb (probably "is") wouldn't have interrupted the flow for you in any way, and it would have enhanced it for those who did notice it and who do care about standard grammar.

    wasn't there a very famous writer (e.e. cummins?) who didn't use much punctuation?
    When language is used creatively by those who understand it, that creativity can be an amazing thing, as in the case of e.e. cummings. The thing about cummings that sooooo many people miss is that he was a VERY structured poet; he didn't just type whatever was in his mind in whatever format. Take a look at this, one of his most famous poems:

    i thank You God for most this amazing
    day:for the leaping greenly spirits of trees
    and a blue true dream of sky;and for everything
    wich is natural which is infinite which is yes

    (i who have died am alive again today,
    and this is the sun's birthday;this is the birth
    day of life and love and wings:and of the gay
    great happening illimitably earth)

    how should tasting touching hearing seeing
    breathing any-lifted from the no
    of all nothing-human merely being
    doubt unimaginable You?

    (now the ears of my ears awake and
    now the eyes of my eyes are opened)


    On the one hand, the established conventions of punctuation and capitalization are (deliberately) flaunted here, but on the other, cummings has written a sonnet, one of those very very structured forms we all studied in high school. Check it out: roughly iambic pentameter, ten syllables per line, ABAB CDCD EDED FF rhyme scheme, fourteen lines of verse.

    Cummings (and he did prefer to have his last name capitalized when it was written by others) uses the lower-case I with a very specific purpose here.

    My point (and sorry if I'm taking too long to make it) is that the language is a beautiful, dynamic, forgiving thing. When we break established standards in the interest of creative purposes, it can be the vehicle for breathtaking art. When we do so because we're just sloppy, we contribute to the language's degradation, which I don't think is Susie's intention.


    I should add that I don't mean to belittle anyone or to come across as a language snob. But like those people whose job it is to ensure safety in a crowded building, I notice details in language that perhaps many don't. Someone's got to!
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  24. #49
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    I love language. I love the ebbs and flows and emotions of language. I love how language can make you 'see' with just the ideas in it. Mathemeticians must feel the same way about numbers, I imagine. Or musicians and their notes. Artists, too.

    But I'm not very good at some parts of the inner workings of language. I just like....need...to talk a lot. I love it when I can tell about what I saw or how it felt or why it happened and have people understand what I'm saying and what I want them to see. Funny I ended up in a place where, for years, nobody understood me and I didn't understand them, eh?

    Sometimes I get so carried away with talking and trying to tell what I want to say, that I get lost or get off track. Or I review it afterwards and think to myself that I was an ass to say it that way. Or I try to reword it and spoil the whole thing. Or stop writing for a time because I lose confidence in myself.

    And this mostly happens when I try to look over things and edit. It's horrible, this editing thing. Or maybe I simply cannot look objectively at my own work. Each and every one of you have been so kind and so supportive of my stories, and I thank all of you from the very depths of my soul...but I'm sure I can do better. Or at least not have such awful doubts.

    How on earth do editors do their thing, anyway? I have the utmost respect for anyone that is able to read someone else's story and keep on the right track and just look at the skeleton and not get emotionally involved with the actual tale. Something akin to being a psychologist, who does the same for the people on the couch that are talking.

    Am I making any sense or is this all too much emotion and maybe I should head off to bed because it's actually quite late here on this side of the world and tomorrow is another day and anyway I will probably look at this tomorrow and say what an ass you can be, girl.?

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Shameless marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    [SIZE="2"]
    I should add that I don't mean to belittle anyone or to come across as a language snob. But like those people whose job it is to ensure safety in a crowded building, I notice details in language that perhaps many don't. Someone's got to!
    ah, yes - I do remember the "Just Taco's" discussion. hehehe
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

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