Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 38

Thread: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

  1. #1

    Default Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    http://www.khon2.com/news/local/stor...tfNxynbhQ.cspx

    There will probably be more empty seats on flights because mileage will be basically nothing. An interisland ticket buyer will choose Go Airlines if they still have the 500 miles points on any interisland flight.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    No. California
    Posts
    2,556

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Not me - you could give me 5,000 miles per trip & I STILL wouldn't fly GO airlines!
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever I am, I'm there
    Posts
    3,198

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Not me - you could give me 5,000 miles per trip & I STILL wouldn't fly GO airlines!
    Out of curiosity, why Ana? I know nothing about GO.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    HAL has even cut off the complementary in-flight entertainment for coach passengers. No more free movies on the mainland flights. Gotta swipe a credit card in order to watch it now.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    No. California
    Posts
    2,556

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Matapule - GO came here a few years ago, cut prices drastically and killed Aloha Airlines. Well, maybe not entirely but it seemed that way. I was a very loyal Aloha customer. Besides all the hundreds of folks who very suddenly lost their jobs - I had a lot of mileage stacked up and it was just all gone. No, I just refuse to fly GO on principle. Maybe silly but its just the way I feel.
    Last edited by anapuni808; May 28th, 2011 at 03:16 AM.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii USA
    Posts
    5,253

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    The new mileage policy sucks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever I am, I'm there
    Posts
    3,198

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Just a bit of background on the airline industry.

    My oldest is in mid-level management with a major airline (one that doesn't fly to 808). Her airline, along with most of the others have been running at a deficit for the last several years. Management has been asked to take a "voluntary" pay cut each year in order to keep the airline solvent (she is not a six figure employee). My daughter has seen her pay go down over the last few years while her workload has been increased by 40%. Airfares have been unrealistically low. Airlines cannot survive on $99 (or $399) fares from the mainland to 808. So the alternatives are to raise fares or cut benefits (mileage plans, complimentary luggage, complimentary meals, complimentary entertainment, complimentary pillows, etc.) All that extra luggage costs money by requiring extra fuel. I know a number of people who think nothing of stealing headphones, pillows, and blankets from the airlines. Those cost money and the current airfares don't cover all the costs. Cost of fuel is one of the major expenses along with salary and benefits for Union employees (pilots, flight staff, ground crew).

    So, we consumers can name our poison - raise fares or cut benefits or lose service. Most airlines have incorporated a combination of all three to remain solvent or.......god forbid.........even make a small profit. Which of the 3 alternatives would the HT ohana choose?
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    middle of da ocean
    Posts
    5,500

    Post Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    I understand being loyal to a brand(airline) though holding a grudge over any company doing the capitalist/american equivalent of winning doesn't make sense to me. Things change... not always for the better, but change they will.
    "go!Mokulele provides you with affordable, fast, reliable service between all major Hawai'i airports. Offering great low fares since 2006, go!Mokulele now offers up to 110 flights per day between Honolulu, Kahului, Lihu'e, Kona, Hilo, Moloka'i and Lana'i. go!Mokulele jet service is operated by Mesa Airlines, Inc. Founded in 1982, Mesa Air Group operates as US Airways Express and United Express under contractual agreements with US Airways and United Airlines, respectively, and independently as go!Mokulele. The Company, founded by Larry and Janie Risley in New Mexico in 1982, has approximately 3,500 employees and was awarded Regional Airline of the Year by Air Transport World magazine in 1992 and 2005." http://www.iflygo.com/Default.aspx

    When I recently needed a flight from Hilo to Honolulu I went to the Hawaiian Air counter first, but they were completely booked for the day. So I then went to the Go!Mokulele counter and got a flight home. I believe Go! was more expensive than Hawaiian would have been though.

    "Hawaiian Airlines was incorporated on January 30, 1929 under the name Inter-Island Airways Ltd. That year, thousands gathered in Honolulu to witness the departure of Hawaii's first scheduled inter-island flights to Maui and the Big Island of Hawaii. The fleet was comprised of two eight-passenger Sikorsky S-38 amphibian planes; six years later, larger 16-passenger Sikorsky S-43s were added to accommodate increased traffic and newly authorized inter-island airmail service.

    In 1941, Inter-Island changed its name to Hawaiian Airlines and introduced the 24-passenger DC-3 into Hawaiian skies. This flying workhorse was the mainstay of our fleet and became vital during wartime operations when all inter-island traffic was placed under military control.

    The advent of commercial jet service in the 1960s resulted in dramatically increased air traffic to and from Hawaii. In 1966, we added our first pure jet inter-island aircraft, the McDonnell Douglas DC-9. Travel time between the islands was reduced to a mere 20-30 minutes, allowing residents and visitors unprecedented access to neighboring islands. The following two decades would see the addition of world charter service, daily flights to the west coast, and scheduled service throughout the South Pacific.

    Our flawless safety and premium service started catching the attention of international travel publications, causing Conde Nast Traveler to rate us one of the word’s safest airlines in 1990. The awards have been coming in steadily ever since—check out Awards and Recognition to see what we mean.

    Fast forward to 2001. We began a comprehensive fleet modernization program with the delivery of 13 new Boeing 717-200 aircraft that would completely replace our DC-9 fleet. In 2002 and 2003, we completely replaced our widebody DC-10 fleet with 14 Boeing 767-300ER aircraft. Even more recently, we added our first long-range Airbus A330-200 aircraft in April 2010 (with plans to add 27 more by the end of the decade). As a result, Hawaiian Airlines' fleet is now among the youngest in the industry.

    Today, Hawaiian Airlines carries an average 8 million customers a year and serves 20 domestic and international destinations in the Pacific region. In North America, it provides daily service to Hawaii from more cities than any other airline. While plenty has changed throughout the years, one thing hasn’t: our commitment to service, safety, and the spirit of aloha." http://www.hawaiianair.com/HawaiianMiles

    Love that last line... 'and the spirit of aloha.'
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Not me - you could give me 5,000 miles per trip & I STILL wouldn't fly GO airlines!
    It has been about 2 years since I ran into problems with Go and their bad attitude about customer service. I still won't fly them if I have a choice.

    ["Besides the bad will (or bad karma) they are making by having overhead bins that only accomodate "less than industry standards" sized carryon luggage, and then charging $20 to check in a standard size carryon. Many airlines have smaller bins and will check in the carryons at no charge. Due to that "money grab" to unsuspecting passengers, I'll never fly them again if I have a choice.]
    It was not that they could not fit a normal size carry on, it was that they charged to check it, plus they were rude about it to boot.

    I don't know what their current size limitations are .... I don't fly them anymore. But if I had to, I'd be sure to take as carry on only "soft sided" luggage, not one with frames or wheels. A soft sided luggage can be crammed into their "check your luggage size" box a the airport. A hard framed carry on cannot.
    Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
    I understand being loyal to a brand(airline) though holding a grudge over any company doing the capitalist/american equivalent of winning doesn't make sense to me.
    Doesn't make sense to me, either, for anyone to complain about HAL slashing the rewards on their miles program.... while at the same time, saying that they won't fly go! because...... well, just because.

    The cutbacks that HAL is doing is the kind of stuff that a company will do if they think their customers will tolerate it and continue to patronize them, no matter what. You want HAL to know that you're not happy with the changes they are making in their Hawn. Miles program? Then don't fly with them. Go with another carrier. Speaking with your money is a whole lot more effective than writing a dozen complaint letters.

    With all that said, I think that HAL's manuever will end up backfiring on them. I can understand making smaller reward cutbacks, adding some restrictions, or reducing the points that are earned from non-airline purchases. But making drastic cutbacks on miles earned from airfare purchases are penalizing the people that are already their good customers.

    I repeat: The only way for HAL to get the message are for those consumers to take their interisland airfare business elsewhere. Fly go! or Island Air. HAL is not going to change just because you write them a letter telling them that your feelings are hurt. Oh boo-hoo!
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever I am, I'm there
    Posts
    3,198

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    The cutbacks that HAL is doing is the kind of stuff that a company will do if they think their customers will tolerate it and continue to patronize them, no matter what.
    It is a matter of survival. Evidently, HAL has chosen to cut back in services rather than raise prices.

    You want HAL to know that you're not happy with the changes they are making in their Hawn. Miles program? Then don't fly with them. Go with another carrier. Speaking with your money is a whole lot more effective than writing a dozen complaint letters.
    Sure, don't fly with them and watch them go out of business. Check their financial statements! You do know how to read a financial statement, right?

    With all that said, I think that HAL's manuever will end up backfiring on them. I can understand making smaller reward cutbacks, adding some restrictions, or reducing the points that are earned from non-airline purchases. But making drastic cutbacks on miles earned from airfare purchases are penalizing the people that are already their good customers.
    It is a delicate dance....raise fares or cut back on services or reduce unprofitable routes.

    I repeat: The only way for HAL to get the message are for those consumers to take their interisland airfare business elsewhere. Fly go! or Island Air. HAL is not going to change just because you write them a letter telling them that your feelings are hurt. Oh boo-hoo!
    You are taking a simplistic approach. If you and the rest stop flying HAL, they will go out of business. Once HAL is out of the picture then GO and Island Air will raise their prices in order to make a profit. There is no "free lunch" in the airline business. Bottom line is that fares ar too low for an airline to make a profit. If no profit, then there is no incentive to stay in business.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    No. California
    Posts
    2,556

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    FM - I was not the one who started this thread. I did not complain about HAL cutting its mileage program. I made a statement about the comparison to GO airlines mileage program. I fly so rarely that a mileage program doesn't mean much to me anyway. It doesn't matter what my reasons are for not choosing to fly with GO airlines. I don't have to justify that to anyone and most especially not to YOU.

    and MM - my "loyalty" was not to any particular airline. It was to the one who gave me the best service and when Aloha was still in business, thats where I went to buy a ticket. I don't fly much anymore so I am happy with Hawaiian. if I had a choice in the matter - I would never fly at all.
    Last edited by anapuni808; May 28th, 2011 at 05:06 PM.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  13. #13

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    FM - I was not the one who started this thread. I did not complain about HAL cutting its mileage program. I made a statement about the comparison to GO airlines mileage program. I fly so rarely that a mileage program doesn't mean much to me anyway. It doesn't matter what my reasons are for not choosing to fly with GO airlines. I don't have to justify that to anyone and most especially not to YOU.
    Obviously, you don't have to justify any of your consumer decisions to me or to anyone else here.

    You may not have started this thread, complaining about HAL's rewards program policy change. However, you did chime in with your thoughts re: go! airlines into the discussion. So if your sentiments about go! airlines have nothing to do with the discussion re: modifications to the Hawn. Miles program, then I have to wonder why you chose this thread to make your statement. (There are existing threads that are devoted to the interisland airline industry in general. Or of course, one can always start a new thread devoted to go! airlines in particular.)

    Nonetheless, I apologize if you took my statement personally. You've made it clear that my words do not apply to you. However, I stand behind my thoughts about those locals who incessantly complain about HAL's service, and yet refuse to patronize go! or Island Air. There are people like that out there.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Just a bit of background on the airline industry.
    So, we consumers can name our poison - raise fares or cut benefits or lose service. Most airlines have incorporated a combination of all three to remain solvent or.......god forbid.........even make a small profit. Which of the 3 alternatives would the HT ohana choose?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    However, I stand behind my thoughts about those locals who incessantly complain about HAL's service, and yet refuse to patronize go! or Island Air. There are people like that out there.
    I sympathize with the airlines losing so much money, especially due to the price of fuel. I agree that they've done it to themselves by trying to undercut the competition to the point that it comes down to which airlines have the reserves to deliberately "starve" themselves in order to gain/keep customers until they choke the competitors into throwing in the towel.

    If given the choice, I'd rather they raise fares rather than nickel and dime me for every little thing as I go along. I'd rather pay up front and then not worry about it, settle into my seat in peace and quiet (a relative thing, I know), as opposed to now, when I'm constantly having to fiddle with my purse for a credit card for every little previously "free" amenitiy.

    I've never complained about HAL's service, and I also won't choose to fly go! for multiple reasons (my ex was an Aloha pilot, so heard much from him, plus my one experience with Go! wasn't a good experience). However, this latest move simply moves me closer and closer to the reality that flying these days has come to picking between the lesser of many evils instead of the "adventure" and real start to my vacation that it used to be.
    Last edited by AbsolutChaos; May 28th, 2011 at 07:26 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    --- --- ---
    Never mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    While someone works himself out of a self-inflicted tizzy,....

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    No. California
    Posts
    2,556

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Obviously, you don't have to justify any of your consumer decisions to me or to anyone else here.

    You may not have started this thread, complaining about HAL's rewards program policy change. However, you did chime in with your thoughts re: go! airlines into the discussion. So if your sentiments about go! airlines have nothing to do with the discussion re: modifications to the Hawn. Miles program, then I have to wonder why you chose this thread to make your statement. (There are existing threads that are devoted to the interisland airline industry in general. Or of course, one can always start a new thread devoted to go! airlines in particular.)

    Nonetheless, I apologize if you took my statement personally. You've made it clear that my words do not apply to you. However, I stand behind my thoughts about those locals who incessantly complain about HAL's service, and yet refuse to patronize go! or Island Air. There are people like that out there.
    No, I "chimed in" with a comment regarding Go's mileage policy. I have no complaints about HAL and don't believe I have ever voiced any on any thread. and post #1 of this thread was not really a complaint about HAL's service - just a comment on their new mileage policy. that post mentioned the name of GO airlines and I commented on that. my post really had nothing to do with you. as your signature line says - we have opinions that may differ. don't take it personally (i'm paraphrasing here).
    Last edited by anapuni808; May 28th, 2011 at 08:08 PM.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

  17. #17

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    You can keep the mileage rate if you have their Hawaiian Airlines credit card or purchase one.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Sure, don't fly with them and watch them go out of business.
    If any business can't adapt to the demands and conditions of today's marketplace, yep, out of business they go. Life goes on.

    You're talking to someone who doesn't believe in anything being "too big to fail" in the airline industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Check their financial statements! You do know how to read a financial statement, right?
    That's interesting. Which airlines not going through bankruptcy currently has their books open to the public? And where can they be accessed?

    Will it show the airlines presently struggling with rising fuel costs not hedging deals in the past when they had the chance?

    If I shoot myself in the foot with short-sighted decisions that ruin my company in the long run, I'm not going to walk around with a tin cup and try to get people to feel sorry for me. Neither do I accept that mentality when it comes to the airline biz.

    That's just how I feel. YVMV.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Oahu now part of the traffic problem in lower Puna
    Posts
    8,415

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    whether Go airlines was the bad guy, let's look at the end result, Hawaiian came out the winner. Yes Go cut their fares, so did Hawaiian. Hawaiian was just at fault here for Aloha's demise. Aloha Airlines also had it's own internal issues that kept it from being competitive against even a smaller unknown called Go.

    Then when you look at Hawaiian's actions during the time Aloha was crumbling to pieces when Hawaiian was building up routes thruout the south pacific and modernizing it's fleet of aircraft during a time of economic hardships, it was as if Hawaiian knew Aloha would dissolve into nothing and was preparing itself to pick up the pieces where Aloha left.

    Remember Hawaiian and Aloha airlines were fierce competitors bent on driving each other into the ground. There was no aloha between the two. Go Airlines simply tipped the balance in favor of Hawaiian.

    In the end, between Go, Aloha and Hawaiian, Hawaiian Airlines not only came out the winner, but seems to have turned a major profit during a very bleak period of our economic recession. And now Hawaiian is driving a symbolic nail into the coffin by doing the Walmart move, by removing incentives and raising prices simply because they can. Remember, crude oil is dropping in price? Yet I don't see airfare doing the same, as a matter of fact, it's going up despite plummeting oil prices.

    Hawaiian is the real issue here, not Go. They've maneuvered themselves as a somewhat monopoly by making themselves the only airlines we will travel out of respect for Aloha Airlines, their only real competitor that they managed to drive into the ground.

    Yes Go Airlines is a crappy airlines, but you don't see Hawaiian airlines worrying about it's only competition. They're raising everything and telling everybody including loyal patrons that it's too bad and there's nothing you can do about it. What are you going to do about it? Fly Go? Apparently those loyal to Aloha and now fly Hawaiian won't, and you can bet that Hawaiian knows that.

    As they say, "we got you by the balls". Hawaiian is the true bad guy here, Go was simply the scapegoat. I wonder who sits on Go's board of directors...my hunch is it's someone with pull from Hawaiian pulling the strings on this puppet airlines.
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Kahalu`u Stream
    Posts
    2,933

    Cool Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy (Big Deal...)

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    Hawaiian is the true bad guy here,
    I'm just not that disturbed by their policy changes. They used to round up interisland flights to 500 miles, now they use actual miles (unless you are one of their special customers or have their mileage plus credit card).

    For example: (excerpted from their explanation website)

    Interisland............Former.....New
    Honolulu - Hilo.......500.........216
    Honolulu - Kona.....500.........163
    Honolulu - Lihue.....500.........102
    Honolulu - Kahului...500.........101
    Lihue - Kahului.......500.........201
    Hilo - Kahului.........500.........120
    Kona - Kahului.......500...........84

    With HA selling blocks of 500 miles for $13.44, it's no big loss. The most drastic difference has you losing about $11.19! Hardly anything to get excited about unless you commute daily.
    Last edited by Kaonohi; May 29th, 2011 at 01:26 AM. Reason: Secret Formula
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
    ~ ~
    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever I am, I'm there
    Posts
    3,198

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by AbsolutChaos View Post
    I agree that they've done it to themselves by trying to undercut the competition to the point that it comes down to which airlines have the reserves to deliberately "starve" themselves in order to gain/keep customers until they choke the competitors into throwing in the towel.
    Interesting point. Remember when the airline industry was regulated by the Government? Price regulation was done to insure that airlines would not use unfair pricing to force competition out of business. Well, consumers got what they wanted - no regulation and short term (and shortsighted) price decreases. But fewer airlines means less competition which leads to eventual higher prices and fewer flight benefits.

    However, this latest move simply moves me closer and closer to the reality that flying these days has come to picking between the lesser of many evils instead of the "adventure" and real start to my vacation that it used to be.
    I remember my first ride on Continental Trailways bus line! They had an on-board stewardess (it was pc to call them that then) with "free" meals! That was the height of luxury! Today, bus travel is tu'u mama'o.

    I remember my first ride on the Santa Fe Chief, all the way from Fresno to Topeka. I sat in the Vista Dome car and I was on top of the world! My seat even reclined so I could sleep like a baby at night! Today, train travel is tu'u mama'o.

    I remember my first ride on an airplane, Fresno to San Fran (on a DC6) connecting to Seattle (on a 707). Men were wearing coat and tie in coach and the meals were gourmet! I thought I would go comatose from the excitement! Yes, Chaos, airline travel today is tu'u mama'o. What with pat downs, and schlepping carry-ons, and lost luggage, and delayed flights, and no leg room, and some kid kicking the back of your seat for 4 hours........it is still an adventure but not a good one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    If any business can't adapt to the demands and conditions of today's marketplace, yep, out of business they go. Life goes on.

    You're talking to someone who doesn't believe in anything being "too big to fail" in the airline industry.
    Fine, but don't complain about the results after the fact.

    That's interesting. Which airlines not going through bankruptcy currently has their books open to the public? And where can they be accessed?
    Corporate books of all airlines are open to the public.

    Will it show the airlines presently struggling with rising fuel costs not hedging deals in the past when they had the chance?
    Easier said than done. Southwest Airlines was able to undercut the market for years because they bought futures in the oil industry. Eventually they were flying with less expensive fuel than their competition. Today, Southwest has used all their "futures" and they pay the same price for fuel as everyone else, and their prices are creeping up to stay in business.

    Is buying oil futures a smart business practice? Maybe. What happens if the price of fuel goes down? An airline could find themselves with costly futures that would be uneconomical to use. And then an airline would need a lot of cash to buy those futures. Cash is not something that airlines have a lot of today. So, FM, your criticisms and solutions are simplistic at best.

    If I shoot myself in the foot with short-sighted decisions that ruin my company in the long run, I'm not going to walk around with a tin cup and try to get people to feel sorry for me. Neither do I accept that mentality when it comes to the airline biz.
    Again, fine, but if you, the consumer, shoot yourself in the foot by flying at the lowest cost, then don't walk around with a tin cup and try to get people to feel sorry for you when they cut back on services and benefits to maintain those cheap fares.

    Yes, it is short-sighted for the airlines to give into Union wage demands. Eventually it leads to the prospect of unprofitability. The alternative is to say "no" to unreasonable Union demands and have the Union go on strike for days, weeks, or months. Some airlines have decided that it is better to just close down operations rather than try to assuage the Union.

    And then we have the cost of fuel. Airlines struggle to stay in business while the oil companies are making windfall profits. What is wrong with that equation? It is time to repeal the tax breaks for the oil companies!
    Last edited by matapule; May 29th, 2011 at 03:27 AM.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  22. #22

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Fine, but don't complain about the results after the fact.
    Perfectly fine. You'll never catch me in a million years begging for bailout money. Other people aren't as shameless.

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Corporate books of all airlines are open to the public.
    You didn't answer the question I asked earlier. Where can I access the complete financial records for each airline company not in bankruptcy? Or do you expect everyone here to take everything you say at face value?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Is buying oil futures a smart business practice? Maybe. What happens if the price of fuel goes down? An airline could find themselves with costly futures that would be uneconomical to use. And then an airline would need a lot of cash to buy those futures. Cash is not something that airlines have a lot of today. So, FM, your criticisms and solutions are simplistic at best.
    Matapule, welcome to Commodities 101, where intelligent decision making, careful analysis, and calculated risk-taking on purchasing futures and options mean the difference between success and failure for a company. You keep saying my thinking is "simplistic." Yet, you totally failed to grasp how key decisions (or non-decisions, as the case may be) on the part of each carrier made a big difference in being able to weather the rise in fuel and the costs of doing operations.

    It's up to you to believe in the notion of treating your favorite struggling airline as being a charity case rather than an honest-to-goodness business. Just don't expect everyone to drink that Kool-Aid. Especially from those of us who have to look for jobs which exist on the basis of real-world profitability.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; May 29th, 2011 at 10:15 AM.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    whether Go airlines was the bad guy, let's look at the end result, Hawaiian came out the winner. Yes Go cut their fares, so did Hawaiian. Hawaiian was just at fault here for Aloha's demise.
    Truer words have never been said. And yet, many people continue to delude themselves into the myth about why Aloha was not able to survive. Some folks (like HAL) have an obvious business agenda in perpetuating that myth. Other people with no profit motive involved, well, it just goes to show how powerful propaganda can be.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever I am, I'm there
    Posts
    3,198

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    You didn't answer the question I asked earlier. Where can I access the complete financial records for each airline company not in bankruptcy? Or do you expect everyone here to take everything you say at face value?
    I expect you to Google whatever airline you want.......or do I need to spoon feed you with the exact URL?

    Yet, you totally failed to grasp how key decisions (or non-decisions, as the case may be) on the part of each carrier made a big difference in being able to weather the rise in fuel and the costs of doing operations.
    I think I understand. HAL has made the business decision to modify their mileage plan in order to weather the rise in cost of fuel and operations. I don't understand why some here are complaining. It is a reality of business.

    It's up to you to believe in the notion of treating your favorite struggling airline as being a charity case rather than an honest-to-goodness business.
    I don't think airlines should be charity cases. I think the Governement needs to step in once again and regulate the industry. The Government should establish a fare schedule that will allow a fair profit for a well run airline. How does a $1000 round trip fare Hawaii/mainland sound to you?
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  25. #25

    Default Re: Hawaiian Airlines' New Mileage Policy (Big Deal...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    I'm just not that disturbed by their policy changes. They used to round up interisland flights to 500 miles, now they use actual miles (unless you are one of their special customers or have their mileage plus credit card).

    For example: (excerpted from their explanation website)

    Interisland............Former.....New
    Honolulu - Hilo.......500.........216
    Honolulu - Kona.....500.........163
    Honolulu - Lihue.....500.........102
    Honolulu - Kahului...500.........101
    Lihue - Kahului.......500.........201
    Hilo - Kahului.........500.........120
    Kona - Kahului.......500...........84

    With HA selling blocks of 500 miles for $13.44, it's no big loss. The most drastic difference has you losing about $11.19! Hardly anything to get excited about unless you commute daily.
    It actually is a big difference. Since flying 15 OW interisland flights would accrue 7500 miles for a free OW interisland flight, using the $ value you've listed, that be 15 x $11.19 for $167.85 extra for anyone aiming for an award ticket. But it's the sign of times, fuel and labor are two huge op costs.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •