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Thread: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

  1. #51

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Wow, that Jones would have even contemplated a move away from SMU is a real surprise. SMU gave him the world, I wonder what possibly soured him, and made ASU look good? Too bad he'll probably not even consider coming back to UH, ...yet maybe the Mac vacancy made him stymie the new move?

  2. #52
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Maybe ASU offered Jones more than SMU's $2 million.
    Maybe Jones isn't a Methodist.
    Maybe he broke up with his girlfriend that he got pregnant over here.
    But the current story is that the deal is falling apart because Jones took too long to reply to ASU's offer. Rumors also are saying that ASU fans didn't want Jones.
    We shall see.
    As for McMackin, maybe he'll get hired at Notre Dame. No. Wait. Two years ago McMackin made some kind of homosexual reference about Notre Dame and he got suspended from UH without pay for 30 days. So ND probably isn't on his list of applications.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    According to Sports Illustrated, at this link, here's the poop on June Jones:


    "The sides were reportedly close to a deal when negotiations abruptly came to an end, apparently after issues were raised about Jones' character"

    Really? Character issues? And "issues" is plural?!?
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    [...]
    Really? Character issues? And "issues" is plural?!?
    I can recall a couple of "issues" that made the news when they happened. Some people might consider them serious while others...not so much.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Let's see. By this time I guess it is "Coach McMake."
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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  6. #56
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    I can recall a couple of "issues" that made the news when they happened. Some people might consider them serious while others...not so much.
    I remember some issues with female students and of course that outrageous car crash, but those were here at UH. I haven't heard of any issues at SMU. Do you have links?
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  7. #57

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Obviously, no one here can speak for the powers-that-be at ASU. But wind of JJ's off-field indiscretions at UH (ignored by the local media) has reached the mainland.

    Now,... when you consider the bombshell scandals that have occurred at Penn St. and Syracuse, it shouldn't be shocking that ASU officials want nothing to do with hiring any coach who has skeletons in his closet involving students.
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  8. #58
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    I remember some issues with female students and of course that outrageous car crash, but those were here at UH. I haven't heard of any issues at SMU. Do you have links?
    My recollections involve his time in Hawaii and were made public. I don't recall the student issues.

  9. #59

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
    Does anyone really think Dennis Erickson, Rick Neuheisel or Ron Zook would coach here?
    No, highly unlikely.

    Which brings to mind the question: Why do so many people on these UH fan message boards clamor for guys like Erickson and Neuheisel? Folks, those guys are recruiters, not coaches. Take away the bluechip recruits they'll no longer be able to attract because of UH's geographic distance and Manoa's sub-standard facilities, and you will quickly be disappointed by the results on the scoreboard.

    A more thoughtful list of bonafide UH coaching candidates can be found here.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

  10. #60

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Dispite the ASU prudes, JJ was welcomed back with open arms at SMU.

    It'll be interesting to see who accepts the UH head job at dollar store rates.

  11. #61

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    No, highly unlikely.

    Which brings to mind the question: Why do so many people on these UH fan message boards clamor for guys like Erickson and Neuheisel? Folks, those guys are recruiters, not coaches. Take away the bluechip recruits they'll no longer be able to attract because of UH's geographic distance and Manoa's sub-standard facilities, and you will quickly be disappointed by the results on the scoreboard.

    A more thoughtful list of bonafide UH coaching candidates can be found here.
    I agree Ken Niumatalolo would be a great choice on many levels, and a couple of those other names are not too bad and I guess any of those are affordable. UH probably cannot even afford Erickson, Neuheisel, etc., but I also doubt those coaches will get the big money and high profile offers they once did as they seem to be heading down the coaching ladder these days.

    As for JJ not getting the ASU job, I wonder if Herman Frazier has any of his cronies still tied to the university? Many high school friends of mine are ASU alums (I went to the cheaper school in Flagstaff!) and they had no interest in June Jones, the Larry Brown of college football. What that means is they don't want a guy to come in and rebuild a program. They feel the program is fine the way it is, they just need an energetic fairly young coach to lead it in the right direction.

  12. #62

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Dispite the ASU prudes, JJ was welcomed back with open arms at SMU.
    June Jones will be back at SMU for the 2012 season. I don't know about him being "welcomed back with open arms," tho. Seems that JJ's aborted plans to ditch SMU for ASU has created a mess as far as the Mustangs football program is concerned. This blog gives some of the details.

    Also, someone attending an SMU alumni event on 12/7 twittered these quotes from SMU AD Steve Orsini re: the June Jones affair.

    @aus10fromhous10Austin Kilgore

    Orsini meets w/ June tomorrow. "I'm not gonna hug him." "I'm gonna tell him that he needs to step up and in his own words show a commitment"
    @aus10fromhous10Austin Kilgore

    Orsini: "there's some damage we have to take care of, and we will"
    @aus10fromhous10Austin Kilgore

    Orsini acknowledged that timing of ASU meeting on Saturday was bad bc it was biggest recruitment weekend
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  13. #63

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    There's plenty of angst, confusion, and anger about JJ pulling this backfired move, it's pretty bad if it was all about himself and without provocation. But the team/staff is mostly delighted he's back, and that may be the most important gut level aspect. It will have to be seen how well he's now entertained by the fans and $ contributers with such a target on his back, and winning will help ease the pain unless he furthers unrest.

    As far as a JJ future back in the NFL, I'd say that time has passed, for both partys.

  14. #64

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
    I agree Ken Niumatalolo would be a great choice on many levels, and a couple of those other names are not too bad and I guess any of those are affordable.
    I've already talked at length about Ken. But if UH wanted to take the route of a young and upcoming coach, Ivin Jasper would be a solid pick. A UH grad who would, with a few phone calls, hit the ground running immediately if he's chosen to lead the Warrior program. The simpletons who call Bobby Curran's show and/or frequent those online fan forums would probably turn their noses up at Ivin, as their measure of a coach's ability is based on how often they see a guy on ESPN's Sportscenter. But for those people who do their homework, they would know that Ivin is highly regarded in the coaching fraternity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
    As for JJ not getting the ASU job, I wonder if Herman Frazier has any of his cronies still tied to the university?
    I'm sure Hermie still has friends there. But friend or not, how much weight would you give to the opinion of a man who has had a very checkered history as an AD at UAB and UH? The decision on who you hire as the head football coach at a D1 university is far too important to be influenced by people who have proven themselves to be incompetent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
    Many high school friends of mine are ASU alums (I went to the cheaper school in Flagstaff!) and they had no interest in June Jones, the Larry Brown of college football. What that means is they don't want a guy to come in and rebuild a program. They feel the program is fine the way it is, they just need an energetic fairly young coach to lead it in the right direction.
    The ASU fans and alums may not like JJ. But I think it is safe to say that June's agent (Leigh Steinberg) is someone who can attest to the actual reason why ASU pulled their offer. And in the SI article that LN posted, this is what Leigh twittered.

    "June Jones character is impeccable and unimpeachable,has done charitable&community,active&spiritual Christian faith," Steinberg said on Twitter. "For any institution to try and scorch the earth by impugning man of honor is despicable-cowardly leaks."
    So Leigh himself specifically mentions the character issue of his client. And make no mistake: it's not about the character of June's team. It's about June himself. Thus, Leigh's statement about the coach's Christian faith and charitable efforts.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 9th, 2011 at 08:54 PM.
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  15. #65
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalihiboy View Post
    I agree Ken Niumatalolo would be a great choice on many levels.
    Doesn't he run the same Paul Johnson's offense from the days of Bob Wagner. Something like the Triple Option. It would take a few years of recruiting to get the "right" players, while the current players stuggle.

    Kind of like Garett Gabriel. He was drafted by Tomey, but look a bit out of place with Wagner's system.

  16. #66

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    Kind of like Garett Gabriel. He was drafted by Tomey, but look a bit out of place with Wagner's system.
    Gabriel was the starting QB for Wags in 1989 and '90, leading the Bows to 2 wins over BYU and the team's first ever postseason bowl bid in the Division I era. With those kind of accomplishments, how out of place could Garrett have been?
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 13th, 2011 at 08:04 PM.
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  17. #67
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Gabriel was the starting QB for Wags in 1989 and '90, leading the Bows to 2 wins over BYU and the team's first ever postseason bowl bid in the Division I era. With those kind of accomplishments, how out of place could Garrett have been?
    I think that was more of the offense. Wagner's QB that he selected to run the option was Carter. Carter was a truely an Options QB that could do it all. Gabriel was already signed on. Wagner had "no choice" but to work with him.

    Don't mean to take credit away from Gabriel. I was just stating that fact that if a headcoach with a different plan comes in, it will take a few years for the fruits to develop.

    Mac as an example, kept the Jones system and the team pretty much continued where it left off.

    I would love to see Paul Johnson/Ken N/Navy style of offense again with the wishbone. But all college admins don't have the paitence to wait for a program to developed.

    Wagner had two (?) bad years, and he was fired (did they forget he won the Holiday Bowl?). And now Mac. Ok, it was a bad season (and with injuries), but I didn't think he needed to go.

    Didn't read all the replies, so I don't know if others felt the same way. Maybe I'll go back to read it.

  18. #68

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    It was a raw deal.
    Coach took a big pay cut for the team/school, and this is how they repay that loyalty, dedication, and strength of service.
    They suck.

  19. #69

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    I think that was more of the offense. Wagner's QB that he selected to run the option was Carter. Carter was a truely an Options QB that could do it all. Gabriel was already signed on. Wagner had "no choice" but to work with him.
    You're talking as if athletic scholarships are "irrevocable" deals. They're not. If a new coach comes in and finds any player that doesn't figure into his plans, he can rescind the scholarship and give it to someone else. Welcome to the world of Div. 1 sports.

    Moreover, when Wagner took over as head coach at UH in 1987, he didn't inherit Gabriel as an established starter. In fact, Garrett entered that season as a redshirt freshman. So it's not as if Wags started off his HC tenure with the program having invested a lot of playing time with the former Pac-5 star, or that Wags had no other viable option to turn to. Wags kept Garrett on because he felt the guy had the potential to offer something to UH, and he did.

    Just to make it clear, Gabriel had to earn his starting QB berth, beating out competitors like Kenny Niumatalolo and Walter Briggs in '89. And he did it with Paul Johnson running the show as OC.

    I think you are underestimating the versatility that Paul Johnson has in implementing an offensive scheme that matches the talent he has on hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    It was a raw deal.
    Coach took a big pay cut for the team/school, and this is how they repay that loyalty, dedication, and strength of service.
    They suck.
    Moving on while others are still crying over spilt milk,....

    Some highly regarded asst. coaches have applied for the UH job. I've already mentioned Ivin Jasper. Oregon St.'s Mark Banker has generated a lot of buzz. But a couple of intriguing candidates hail from Utah. Namely, offensive coordinator Norm Chow and defensive coordinator Kalani Sitake. Both of these Utes have strong Hawaii ties and probably would not view the UH job as a "stepping stone" to bigger and brighter opportunities. Chow is a proven commodity as an offensive guru. At the same time, the Punahou product is already aged 65 and has come out on the short end the 3 previous times that UH has had searches for head coaches.

    Sitake doesn't have the sterling resume that Chow has. But at age 36, he has youth on his side and has recruiting contacts in Utah, Arizona, the West Coast, and Samoa.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 15th, 2011 at 06:59 PM.
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  20. #70
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    Moreover, when Wagner took over as head coach at UH in 1987, he didn't inherit Gabriel as an established starter. In fact, Garrett entered that season as a redshirt freshman. So it's not as if Wags started off his HC tenure with the program having invested a lot of playing time with the former Pac-5 star, or that Wags had no other viable option to turn to. Wags kept Garrett on because he felt the guy had the potential to offer something to UH, and he did.

    Just to make it clear, Gabriel had to earn his starting QB berth, beating out competitors like Kenny Niumatalolo and Walter Briggs in '89. And he did it with Paul Johnson running the show as OC.
    Again, just want to make it clear that I'm not saying Gabriel was not a good QB or did not do well.

    Not knowing the entire history as I started to watch when Tipton was the QB, there wasn't any (too many?) local player that was selected as QB. Gabriel did very well at Pac-5 so he was picked up by UH. He had to be. How can UH not?

    IIRC Ralph Cherry was the starting QB for Wagner, but even he was had to learn and adjust from the Tomey system.

    Wagner choose Carter to be his QB, and the result was the Holiday bowl. Carter was selected and developed by Wagner (or should be say Paul Johnson).

    We are moving away from coaching to QBs.

    I would love to have a local boy (Ken N) back with UH. I just don't want him to "fail" because the current players are not used to his system. For him to draft Freshmen, and developed them, it would take him a few years. And I'm not sure UH Admin is willing to wait that long.

    Maybe another example would be Fred Von Ap time. He wanted a West-Cost style of offense (?), but the exisiting players were selected based on the (Wager's) Option system. Maybe he was just a bad coach. Or maybe the UH players just didn't fit his system.

  21. #71

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    Again, just want to make it clear that I'm not saying Gabriel was not a good QB or did not do well.
    Fine. Nobody's claiming that you said otherwise. However, I am taking issue with your earlier statement that "Wagner had 'no choice' but to work with him," as if Garrett hung around on UH's QB depth chart by default. The facts simply do not bear that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    Not knowing the entire history as I started to watch when Tipton was the QB, there wasn't any (too many?) local player that was selected as QB.
    In the Div. I era, there were a couple of local products who became starting QBs for UH in the years preceding Garrett Gabriel. There was Leilehua's Alex Kaloi, before he suffered a career-ending neck injury in a game against Texas A&I. And then there was Blane Gaison. Yeah, a lot of people remember Gaison as being a star DB, but the Kamehameha alum did start some games at QB until Dick Tomey decided to stick with Mike Stennis as his signal caller and utilized Blane's athletic talents on the defensive squad.

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    IIRC Ralph Cherry was the starting QB for Wagner, but even he was had to learn and adjust from the Tomey system.
    I believe you are referring to Raphel Cherry. By the time Wags was elevated to HC in '87, Cherry was long gone from Manoa, playing his 3rd season in the NFL.

    The starting QB for UH in '87 and '88 was Warren Jones.
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  22. #72
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    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    I believe you are referring to Raphel Cherry. By the time Wags was elevated to HC in '87, Cherry was long gone from Manoa, playing his 3rd season in the NFL.

    The starting QB for UH in '87 and '88 was Warren Jones.
    Flashback to old names. Yes. Cherry went to the Redskins?

  23. #73

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by cabanalane View Post
    Flashback to old names. Yes. Cherry went to the Redskins?
    Correct. Played a few seasons in the NFL as a safety. Now serving time in prison after being convicted for murdering his wife.

    Raphel holds the distinction of being the first QB to be mentored by June Jones, helping him to set several UH passing records.
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  24. #74
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    Lightbulb Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    I've already talked at length about Ken. But if UH wanted to take the route of a young and upcoming coach, Ivin Jasper would be a solid pick. A UH grad who would, with a few phone calls, hit the ground running immediately if he's chosen to lead the Warrior program.
    Looks like neither of your boys made it. Be that as it may, it is an impressive top five the committee has whittled the field down to.

    UH expected to name new coach soon

    The search committee has interviewed five candidates for the Warriors’ vacant football head-coaching job

    By Stephen Tsai
    POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Dec 19, 2011

    » Texas assistant head coach Duane Akina, a Punahou School graduate and former Washington quarterback who also has coached at UH and Arizona.

    » Oregon State defensive coordinator Mark Banker, who was an assistant coach at UH, Stanford and Southern California, and was defensive coordinator with the San Diego Chargers.

    » Utah offensive coordinator Norm Chow, a Punahou graduate and former Utah offensive lineman who has run the offenses for Brigham Young, North Carolina State, USC, UCLA and the Tennessee Titans.

    » Jacksonville Jaguars offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter, who was head coach at Boise State and Arizona State.

    » Baylor associate head coach Brian Norwood, a Radford High graduate and former UH defensive back who also has coached at Navy, Richmond and Penn State.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

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    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  25. #75

    Default Re: The Coach McMackin deathwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    Looks like neither of your boys made it.
    Let's be accurate here, Tunnl. It turned out that Niumatalolo didn't even apply, so it's not as if he didn't make the search committee's cut. Reportedly, Ken wrote Ivin a letter of recommendation for the UH job, so it was quite apparent from awhile back that Kenny was not interested in going back to Manoa.

    Anyhow, I was the first one to mention the possibility of Norm Chow in this thread. And looks like he's finally going to get the opportunity to show what he can do as a head coach.

    Good luck, Coach Chow.
    Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 20th, 2011 at 11:10 AM.
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