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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #776

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    It is nice when others demonstrate my point for me.
    Your point is no legal guns available and no protection for law abiding citizens. I reject your point, unless you've changed your mind.

  2. #777
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Your point is no legal guns available and no protection for law abiding citizens.
    roll eyes roll eyes roll eyes

    STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  3. #778
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Let's see how this goes



    1) The victims of the navy yard shooting are the true "first responders"
    According to USA Today, it was 7 minutes from the first 911 call before police entered the building. Who knows how long before paramedics would be allowed to help the wounded. Everyone in the area of the shooter had to rely on themselves and those with them to survive.
    2) Not considering luck, a victim's chance of survival was affected by their preparedness. ("victim" being anyone who was at risk of being killed)
    - good cardio
    - mental/emotional strength & edurance
    - situational awareness, proper reaction, and reaction time
    - knowledge of exits
    - knowledge of paths with sufficient cover/concealment
    - first aid, treatment of acute trauma, and adequate supplies
    3) The killer disobeyed rules and laws
    - rules and laws are meaningless if they cannot be enforced
    - at what cost are we willing to enforce rules and laws?
    4) Before the incident, victims felt safe but weren't
    - fear management is inferior to danger management
    5) The police and security usually show up after the fact.
    - once again, the initial victims are the "first responders". their lives are in their hands
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
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    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  4. #779
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    New York City Murder Rate In 2013 Falls To Levels Not Seen Since 1950s

    It is likely that some pundits here on HT as well as the NRA will say that the reason the homicide rate is down is because there are more guns in circulation. However, "Police Commissioner Ray Kelly cited the NYPD's controversial stop and frisk policies as a primary factor in the dip." But I am sure that there are those on HT who know better than the police commissioner.


    STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  5. #780

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    "Police Commissioner Ray Kelly cited the NYPD's controversial stop and frisk policies as a primary factor in the dip."
    That'll soon end.

    As offensive as any killing is, I find it much more offensive that anyone would embrace giving killers the infinite upper hand by restricting the good citizens the ability/opportunity to save their life or the lives of others with defensive weaponry. That makes them merely a single step less culpable of murder than the actual killer.

    STAY THE HELL OUTTA MY LIFE AND THE CHANCE TO SAVE IT (and maybe even your's) NOW!!!

  6. #781
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    That'll soon end.

    As offensive as any killing is, I find it much more offensive that anyone would embrace giving killers the infinite upper hand by restricting the good citizens the ability/opportunity to save their life or the lives of others with defensive weaponry.
    You could have just as easily said:

    As offensive as smoking is, I find it much more offensive that anyone would embrace giving non-smokers the infinite upper hand by restricting smoking and smokers the ability/opportunity to smoke wherever they want because anything else would be a restriction on their constitutional rights.

    STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  7. #782

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Smoking is a privilege, while defending one's life/well being is a right, and a necessity.

  8. #783
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Smoking is a privilege, while defending one's life/well being is a right, and a necessity.
    Smokers feel that smoking is a "right" and a "necessity", but that doesn't make them correct.

    STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  9. #784

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    It is nice when others demonstrate my point for me.
    Yep, it is. Thanx.

  10. #785
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Here's what Bill Maher says about gun control:

    "Maybe our constipated Congress can't pass gun control laws, but we (California) just did. Lots of 'em. Because we don't give a shit about the NRA. Out here that stands for "Nuts, Racists, and A$$holes." So while the rest of America is debating whether it's a good idea to allow guns in bars or a great idea to allow guns in bars, California is about to ban lead bullets. Which is a no-brainer, because bullets don't need lead, and lead kills birds and gets into the food supply of people who hunt their own food. Which explains why Ted Nugent is such a raving lunatic."

    STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  11. #786

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Full metal jacket, baby! Feel better now?

  12. #787
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Here's what Bill Maher says about gun control:

    ...

    Because we don't give a shit about the NRA. Out here that stands for "Nuts, Racists, and A$$holes."

    ...

    Which explains why Ted Nugent is such a raving lunatic."
    It's interesting when someone feels the need to duhumanize those who don't agree with them. I mean if your argument is strong, you don't need to resort to school yard name calling. Feels like insecurity to me.

    Or maybe it's frustration at being impotent, at not being able to impose your will on others. People should focus more on controlling what they can, such as themselves.

    Though it seems these days people are barely able to control themselves.

    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
    "
    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  13. #788
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicJoe View Post
    It's interesting when someone feels the need to duhumanize those who don't agree with them. I mean if your argument is strong, you don't need to resort to school yard name calling. Feels like insecurity to me.

    Or maybe it's frustration at being impotent, at not being able to impose your will on others.
    And you are the one criticizing others for name calling? You are just kidding right?

    Bill Maher is a comedian and satirist. His comments should be taken in that vein, at least I did! I have never considered you one of either. IF your premise is correct.......are you trying to tell us that you are also insecure, impotent, and trying to impose your will on us?

    STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  14. #789
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    Full metal jacket, baby! Feel better now?
    No, I don't feel better with gun nuts with your attitude running around out there on the loose.

    STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  15. #790
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    And you are the one criticizing others for name calling? You are just kidding right?

    Bill Maher is a comedian and satirist. His comments should be taken in that vein, at least I did! I have never considered you one of either. IF your premise is correct.......are you trying to tell us that you are also insecure, impotent, and trying to impose your will on us?
    I'm just saying come up with interesting discussion points, because it's rather dull in here
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
    "
    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  16. #791
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    How about more stories about the Peace Corps or other humanitarian work. Tie it in with gun control, violence, human nature, etc.

    People are influenced by personal stories. I mean protect your privacy and all that, but I found your discussions about conflict management in Samoan culture to be interesting.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
    "
    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  17. #792
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    If you have some specific questions about my experience in the Tongan culture I would be happy to answer them in the appropriate thread.

    With regards to guns in Tongan culture, there weren't any, even the national police didn't carry any. There were a lot of machetes in circulation but they were a utility tool used for cutting grass, chopping down a stalk of bananas, opening coconuts, cutting pathways in the vao (forest), etc. Even I had one as a necessary aid to make life more comfortable. In my two years there, I never heard of any incident where they (machetes) were used as a weapon. Conflicts were handled by social pressure. The nobles and matapules would intervene when necessary and resolve conflicts and their's was the final word. That was the culture.

    In history, the Tongans were noted as the most "warlike" of the Polynesian people. The only reason I can think for this was the fact that the islands were more spread out than any of the other Polynesian sub-cultures. It was a matter of survival for the early Tongans because their numbers were very dispersed (but this is a topic for a completely different thread). The weapons for war were primarily clubs with large stones attached or studded with sharks teeth. As I recall, Captain Cook was dispatched on Hawai'i by a club with a stone attached.

    I do know from my experience in Tonga that some individual Tongans were banned from their ancestral village for unspecified offenses. I knew one guy who lived with his wife apart from the village for some offense. I never did inquire what that offense was, that would have been very rude to pry in someone else business in Tongan society. On the radio, Tongan station ZCO, I heard of one Tongan who was released from prison and then went on a crime spree but was apprehended and sent back to jail. But that was in the capitol, Nukualofa, about 200 miles south of our island.

    The only murder I personally know about in Tonga occurred about 6 years after we left Tonga. One Peace Corps volunteer stabbed to death another female Peace Corps volunteer out of a fit of jealousy and envy on the island of Tongatapu. A book was written about the incident. The perpetrator pleaded guilty and was released to the US to serve his 25 year sentence. Upon returning to the US he was immediately released on an appeal of "temporary insanity." Currently the guy is married and lives in New Jersey. This IS NOT a proud moment in the annals of Peace Corps volunteerism. Why are the people of the US some of the most violent on the face of the earth?

    There were no gun homicides in Tonga because, obviously, there were no guns available to the general public. Get it? No guns means no gun violence particularly mass murders! Yes there was the occasional violence with knives and machetes but it was very rare and it was one on one.

    The US society is not an exceptional one like many of us think we are. We are a society that has evolved into one of complacency, arrogance, and violence. In my opinion one that is comparatively uncivilized and primitive. The only thing that is going to change that is change from within. A complete restructuring of society. The first step is to control the availability of guns. Guns means gun violence. It is up to each one of us individually to lobby for sensible gun regulation. Silence means acquiescence and acquiescence exacerbates the problem.

    STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  18. #793

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    No, I don't feel better with gun nuts with your attitude running around out there on the loose.
    The attitude of preferring the opportunity for self defense in a kill crazy society? HEAVEN FORBID!

  19. #794
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    If you have some specific questions about my experience in the Tongan culture I would be happy to answer them in the appropriate thread.
    My apologies for getting it wrong. I'll start a new thread when I have a break. Thanks for sharing.
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
    "
    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

  20. #795

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Now there'll probably be a bunch of crazy libruls trying to ban guns in church:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ef=mostpopular

  21. #796

    Default Re: Gun Control

    http://news.yahoo.com/ny-driver-beat...215633250.html

    What if the SUV driver had a gun?

  22. #797

    Default Re: Gun Control

    There are angles to that story. 1, why prohibit a gathering of bikers? The Constitution permits people to gather and to associate in public. Maybe the article was incomplete but it seems like legitimate rights of the bikers were being infringed. 2, it sounds like the SUV driver started the problem by running into a biker, then split; hit and run, a crime. The bikers seem to have apprehended a criminal, a hit and run. 3, true, they went over the limit in beating the driver but that seems to be pretty standard police procedure judging from videos of captures of fleeing runaway driving suspects, the Rodney King case being a good case in point. As will be recalled, a jury acquitted all four cops for beating King on video, so it really is pretty standard police behavior, its accepted. Shouldn't be, but is.

    I had a friend who was beaten up by the Hells Angels once. He was in a car being driven by a friend of his who flipped off people in a car behind who were honking at him. Turned out they were Hells Angels. They launched out of their car, dragged my friend and his friend out and to the street and beat them up. Lesson: do NOT flip people off on the road, you never know who they might be!

    Back to our story...4, what if the bikers had had guns? The SUV driver survived his beating, its much less likely he would have survived a hail of bullets. Maybe the bikers will arm themselves with assault weapons, that should make us all much more secure, right?

  23. #798

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Just caught the video of the biker event on TV news. These were not big Hog riders, they were riding little rice burners as the saying goes. The SUV rear ended a bike as the bike stopped in front of him. Bikers began beating on his SUV windows with their helmets, he panicked and split, so it was not actually a hit and run. All things considered it could have ended much worse if either the SUV driver or the bikers had been armed, or if both sides had been. Picture it! Wild gunfire erupts, dozens of shots fired, etc. I do not picture guys riding little rice burners as constituting some menacing criminal conspiracy, that image can apply to big Hog riders but I have met some pretty respectable guys who look downright disreputable in their gear on their big Hogs, but thats...how they roll.

  24. #799

    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    Bill Maher is a comedian and satirist. His comments should be taken in that vein, at least I did!
    There are two stereotypes going on with the biker gang assault on the SUV driver. The SUV driver is Asian, and the hothead biker who turn himself in for the assault has a Hispanic name. This is a setup joke on Real Time.
    Last edited by Walkoff Balk; October 1st, 2013 at 11:40 PM.

  25. #800
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    Exclamation Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    Back to our story...4, what if the bikers had had guns? The SUV driver survived his beating, its much less likely he would have survived a hail of bullets. Maybe the bikers will arm themselves with assault weapons, that should make us all much more secure, right?
    It's very likely they DID have guns. When I rode 1% (outlaw) we ALL carried guns, all the time. These guys may not have been outlaws though.

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