Gun Control

[TATTRAT]

Re: Gun Control

The NRA says that guns don't kill people. Absurd!

I am not a gun toting redneck, but I just have to interject. . . .

PEOPLE WITH GUNS, WHO HAVE A GRUDGE, AND WANT TO DO HARM, WHO WANT TO KILL= KILL PEOPLE. It doesn't matter if it is a gun, a bomb made by fertilizer, a Popsicle stick fashioned into a shiv, or behind the wheel of a car(licensed and registered to them). . . where there is a will, there is a way.


Guns, as a tool, sitting in a cabinet or gunsafe do nothing, AB So TITTY EFFING LUTELY NOTHING.

Like every other tool known on the face of the earth, it requires mans input to USE said tool.

Guns, by themselves DO NOT KILL PEOPLE. People KILL people. Plain and simple.

Weapons of ANY kind are a tool. knives, hatchets, axes, crossbows, bow and arrow, slingshots, bb guns, pocket knives. . . all are tools and can be deemed weapons of murder given the wrong situation, or PERSON YIELDING them. So again, the same can be said for bare naked hands.


I am NOT pro gun/antigun, I AM PRO-COMMON SENSE.

No matter what is done to limit gun sales/ownership, as has been proven the world over, time and time again, all it takes is the willful spirit of someone wanting to do harm to one, or many, and that's it. Guns or not, people WILL murder others. Sometimes it's one, sometimes it is MANY, fact is, if it wants to be done, it is GOING to be done. Where the community fails is in recognizing the signs that lead up to such massacres. Regardless of the weapon used, one thing ALWAYS comes out: he/sh showed signs of instability for years. He/she wrote notes/poems, displayed dark tendencies for years prior.

Pay attention to the people. PEOPLE need help, some more than others. If you can identify things before they reach the breaking point, then who knows HOW things would result?


Having a gun in my house makes me as much of a murderer as me standing in my garage makes me a car.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

PEOPLE WITH GUNS, WHO HAVE A GRUDGE, AND WANT TO DO HARM, WHO WANT TO KILL= KILL PEOPLE. It doesn't matter if it is a gun, a bomb made by fertilizer, a Popsicle stick fashioned into a shiv, or behind the wheel of a car(licensed and registered to them). . . where there is a will, there is a way.

According to your logic. cigarettes don't kill people either. That is contrary to what the AMA says.

Guns, as a tool, sitting in a cabinet or gunsafe do nothing, AB So TITTY EFFING LUTELY NOTHING.

Exactly! So let's get rid of them.

Guns, by themselves DO NOT KILL PEOPLE. People KILL people. Plain and simple.

Cigarettes don't kill people. People kill people?

all are tools and can be deemed weapons of murder given the wrong situation, or PERSON YIELDING them. So again, the same can be said for bare naked hands.

So cigarettes don't kill people? Cancer doesn't kill people? Mental illness doesn't kill other people?

I am NOT pro gun/antigun, I AM PRO-COMMON SENSE.

Me too! Common sense says that the 2nd Amendment wasn't written with today's weapons in mind.

No matter what is done to limit gun sales/ownership, as has been proven the world over, time and time again, all it takes is the willful spirit of someone wanting to do harm to one, or many, and that's it.

What has been shown the world over is that when guns are limited and controlled the death rate via gun violence goes way down and yet the death rate from other forms of weapons (tools) does not go up. Guns make mass murder so much easier because of the rapidity by which they can be used. How many people can you kill in a minute with a knife? How many people can you kill in a minute with a gun? That is why we ban bombs on airplanes, because of the rapidity factor.

Guns or not, people WILL murder others. Sometimes it's one, sometimes t is MANY, fact is, if it wants to be done, it is GOING to be done. Where the community fails is in recognizing the signs that lead up to such massacres.

Take a look at the statistics for mass murder b y guns and mass murder by other forms of weaponry. You will see that your premise doesn't hold water. The preferred weapon for mass murder is the gun.

Regardless of the weapon used, one thing ALWAYS comes out: he/sh showed signs of instability for years. He/she wrote notes/poems, displayed dark tendencies for years prior.

Pay attention to the people. PEOPLE need help, some more than others. If you can identify things before they reach the breaking point, then who knows HOW things would result?

I thought you said that people kill people and cannot be attributed to anything else, like mental illness? When 40% of weapons are sold without a background check, how do we keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or felons? The NRA is opposed to universal background checks. The Sandy Hook shooter didn't own the guns, he used his mother's. How do we prevent this from happening. There are people who are banned from having guns because of mental issues so they have their wife purchase the guns. How do we prevent this from happening.

Public money to fund mental health services has been cut dramatically beginning with Reagan. The US is unwilling to raise taxes to fund mental health services and research. Who is going to pay for all this mental health screening you are proposing? You can't have it both ways.

You have resorted to NRA sloganeering yet you provide no answers for the difficult and real problems. My solution is simple and unequivocal - ban guns

Having a gun in my house makes me as much of a murderer as me standing in my garage makes me a car.

Poor analogy. You should have said, "having a gun in my house makes me a murderer has much as driving a car makes me a murderer." No one has ever said owning a gun makes one a murderer. You are fabricating an opposing argument. What I have said is that having a gun in the house statistically increases the chances of gun violence to members of the family and the general public.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

Another shooting, I think it involved an assault rifle, in New Mexico, if I recall only..."only"...4 died. See it has to have serious numbers before it rises above the usual..."usual"...background noise. Just another day, business as usual, nothing to see here. Unless it was your family otherwise no reason to care. right

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

Turns out the shooter was planning on visiting a Walmart to continue his killing. So its armed guards at all schools & shopping malls & Walmarts. Or will be, soon enough. East Germany all over again.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

A shooting at a Houston community college today. Texas is a State with "relaxed" restrictions on gun ownership. Obviously, there were students on campus who were carrying, but yet that did no good. There were obviously school security who were armed, but yet that did no good.

So those two arguments by the gun nuts have no validity.

An FBI profiler was interviewed on television today with regards to the Houston shooting. He said that guns on campus at any level will do no good and perhaps would exacerbate a potential problem. He cited the example of the police shooting in New York a couple of years ago. He said these policemen went through monthly training for proper use of their weapons, yet several innocent bystanders were shot by the police in that incident, despite the training. He said what would a teacher do with a gun who went through one training course, say 5 years ago if there was an incident on their campus. The NRA is completely out of its mind!

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

Heads up on upcoming legislation:

SB36: Firearms; Permits; Registration; Storage; Education and Training
SB219: Firearms; Assault Weapons; Machine Guns; Ban
HB30: Firearms; Ammunition Sales or Distribution



A local gun dealer's opinion of the bills:

SB36 Re-registration, mental health background, safe storage, permits.

Fast-tracked by Senate Pres. Donna Kim with a dual referral, two committees meeting at once, so only one chance to kill it in the Senate before it goes to finance committee.

Re-registration of all your firearms each year. Every member of your household must apply for a permit for all your guns. Establishes a firearm registration fee deposited into a new special fund for mandatory firearm education and training to be attended by firearm owners at least once every two years. Firearms owners must have training every two years or forfeit your guns.



SB219 "Assault Weapons." The short bill description provided by the Legislature omits the bill's provisions making simple possession a class C felony and provides for "relinquishment of assault weapon to law enforcement". No grandfather clause. Confiscation bill



HB30 Ammunition Purchaser of ammunition must provide proof of registration that they own the firearm in specific caliber ammunition.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Heads up on upcoming legislation:

SB36: Firearms; Permits; Registration; Storage; Education and Training
SB219: Firearms; Assault Weapons; Machine Guns; Ban
HB30: Firearms; Ammunition Sales or Distribution

This is all good news. All of these Bills need to pass. This is only the first step in providing some sane gun control in the US.

Like the controls on smoking we have today, gun control will need several baby steps before we can enact meaningful gun control measures.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

Matapule, you are losing it. Your logic went out the window.

You say cigarettes kill people? What, the climb out of the pack and attack? You are over the edge.

PEOPLE smoking cigarettes kill themselves (second-hand smoke is overrated, but possible).
Cigarettes don't kill people, People using cigarettes kill people, most often themselves.

Now, crocodiles kill people - as do venomous snakes, as do political activists (like you), but inanimate objects rarely kill people unless wielded by an animate object or encountered by such (you can trip over a rock and die).

Please, get your logic in order, if you have ANY desire to be taken seriously. Right now many of us categorize you in the "lunatic fringe." You love the attention, I know. So did Manson with his plans to make a better world.

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

Cigarettes don't kill people, People using cigarettes kill people, most often themselves.

Please, get your logic in order, ...

Logic has nothing to do with it. It's just a fact about the grammar of English that the subject of many causative verbs, such as "kill", "break", "melt", may be either the agent that causes something or the instrument with which something is caused. When a person throws a rock at a window and breaks it, it is just as true that the rock broke the window as it is that the person broke the window. To say that cigarettes kill people is not to deny that it is the smoking of the cigarettes that is the instrument of death -- of course, we all know that smoking the cigarettes is the problem. That's why cigarettes do kill people.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

OK, Greg, I understand your bent.

However, I believe that assigning blame to inanimate objects of any type, guns, cigarettes, cars, is a way of avoiding responsibility. 'I didn't kill him, my GUN did it!' Extreme hyperbole, of course, not a serious argument.

We must place blame where blame is due - on people (or animals) who have a volition rather than blaming inanimate objects.

The most common killer of animate beings is life. If you live, you die. No exceptions.
Perhaps we should outlaw life.

Reading the news today, I'm unsure whether we are far away from that goal.

So it goes.
(in memory of Kurt Vonnegut)

K

[lensperson]

Re: Gun Control

Everyday as I drive around , I can see the plate of the car in front of me on the road.

If someone can shoot at me should I not have the same right to see who was shooting?

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

A thought on the gun ban law

A person steals guns, (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
shoots and kills his own mother (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
transports these guns loaded (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
brings guns onto school property (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
breaks into the school (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
discharges the weapons within city limits (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
murders 26 people (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
and commits suicide (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW).

And there are people in this country that somehow think passing ANOTHER LAW banning guns would protect us from someone like this.

If you haven't noticed, people like this are not concerned about breaking laws - they only care about fulfilling their own twisted agenda.

The only people that a gun ban law would impact are the LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, which will only serve to cripple the ability to protect ourselves.

If you agree, please say so. If you disagree, please read it again while putting your pre-conceived decisions aside. If you still disagree, it's your first amendment right to say so.

It's your second amendment right to keep and bear arms, to protect yourself and your country, which, if you haven't noticed, is under attack by terrorists armed with box-cutter knives.

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

A person steals guns, (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
shoots and kills his own mother (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
transports these guns loaded (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
brings guns onto school property (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
breaks into the school (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
discharges the weapons within city limits (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
murders 26 people (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW),
and commits suicide (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW).

And there are people in this country that somehow think passing ANOTHER LAW banning guns would protect us from someone like this.

Er, if there weren't any guns available, the first step in this chain of events couldn't happen, and so then none of the rest would happen, either.

I've noticed a difference between conservatives and progressives. When they notice something bad, conservatives think that once they've found who to blame, the problem is solved. Progressives, in contrast, want to stop the bad stuff from happening.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

Er, if there weren't any guns available, the first step in this chain of events couldn't happen, and so then none of the rest would happen, either.

I've noticed a difference between conservatives and progressives. When they notice something bad, conservatives think that once they've found who to blame, the problem is solved. Progressives, in contrast, want to stop the bad stuff from happening.

So true, Greg, but the genie is out of the bottle. Even in the countries around the world with VERY STRICT gun laws, there are horrible gun massacres and gun murders. (See my earlier post on the 5 worst massacres)

There is no way in the world to eliminate guns. Even if we confiscated all registered guns, the criminals will still have unregistered guns. If we could even find some way to confiscate those, guns aren't too hard to make, and they would make them.

A gun is like any other tool; in the right hands it is a benefit, in the wrong hands it is a danger.

If anything, we need a strategy that will return us to the days when guns were plentiful and massacres were rare. The 1950's? Find out what changed, and find a way to change it back.

In the 1960's, living in Connecticut, at the approximate age of 17, I was able to walk into a store and bought my first pistol. No massacres, a recent assassination of a president, no restrictions on gun ownership, no registration.

Where did we go wrong?

[lensperson]

Re: Gun Control

Mobil rocket launchers have emerged in Seattle.

The device has been sent back to DFS/Ipak/extend/'

The crowds created an open air gun market.