Gun Control

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

And both are equally lethal.

My main reason for differentiating them is the difference in recoil and noise, but yes, they are both lethal.

Don't let the cute look of the .22LR fool you. It's lethal at distances greater than what you would think (manufacturers print 1.5 miles on the box). There are stories of people shooting guns in the air and someone getting hit and killed far out of sight.

[lensperson]

Re: Gun Control

And of course I could be at the gun range trying to de program

a Manchurian Candidate.

When people are taught to kill it gets to be a bad habit.

What happens to the brain damaged vets who are dumped back into civilian society?

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

There is a rogue former LAPD officer reported in this neighborhood, massive police search for him, must be hundreds of cops, the guy is heavily armed with assault weapons, suspected in at least 3 murders in the last 48 hours. Tried to steal a boat at a local marina, couldn't operate it, now thought to be somewhere in this area. Helicopters overhead. Kind of reminds me of student days in the '60's.

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

There is a rogue former LAPD officer reported in this neighborhood, ...

Where's that? Well, he should be expert in gun handling, and I understand from the last postings above that that is what really counts. So, not to worry.

[Kaonohi]

Fear Control

And instinctual fear can be debilitating and irrational. It can lead to mental illness which is difficult to treat.

You mean like the instinctual fear of other people owning guns?

I agree.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

Its the Pt. Loma-Ocean Beach neighborhood in San Diego. Theme: people going crazy and having guns available. This was a former cop, a guy recently out of the military, certainly qualified to possess and use guns, powerful guns, and yet here he goes off the deep end and has murdered 3 people. So far. For now he seems to have vanished from this area. Things back to what passes for normal around here. He seems to have a big grudge against cops. He does know what he's doing with guns, he has been very well trained. This is a case that shows even when you think that guns are safe when possessed by well trained and trusted police officers things can still go horribly wrong. However this story turns out it is one of the weirdest ever.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

Anybody can go off the deep end. Matapule was always opinionated, but not illogically so. A former cop, a former Veteran, a former whatever - we all have our breaking points.
It could be a car, a gun, a bomb, poison in the water system - all have been used to commit mass murder, and other things, as well.

One of our greatest problems is overpopulation and the stresses this creates upon individuals. As well as incompetent supervisors.

Remember the term "going postal?" It referred to a postal worker who was fed-up with the incompetence of his supervisors - so he dusted them.

Occassionally I have had to calm Mrs. Kaonohi down after a particularly virulent encounter with incompetence in leadership.

This is something we are going through - must go through - and in that I agree with Matapule that guns don't help (except as a way to cutdown the population - I'd prefer birth control!)

This is not about guns - it is about the unraveling of our society due to (among others) population pressures. Yet how do we balance our personal safety with the obvious threat of being a victim? If we are in a theatre where an unbalanced individual comes to commit mass murder, what are our choices???

1. We can lie down and be a willing victim. (Matapule, will YOU do that?)

2. We can defend ourselves - fight back, and probably save other lives in the meantime.

I recall a few phrases which illustrate our prediciment:

"When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away."

"I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy."

We obviously cannot depend on the police to protect us. If you don't take steps to protect yourself and your family, you are virtually UNPROTECTED!

How do you plan to protect your life, as well as the life of your partner and of your children? What options do you have that I don't know, for I will not curl up and die. If someone comes in with an instrument of mass destruction, whether it is a gun, a crowbar, a tire iron, a baseball bat, a vehicle, a can of gas or a molotov coctail, a sword, or any other deadly component, WHAT WILL YOU DO??????? How can you do your duty as the leader of your family to protect YOUR children?

1. Call the police? (it's too late)
2. Fight fists vs. weapons? (RIP)
3. Try to hide and hope you and yours don't die?

Hey, we're all going to die eventually anyway, why not now? Tuck your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. Wave to your kids and spouse as you go. Imagine their pain and their dissapointment in you as a protector.

The lawbreakers will always have guns, always. They still have them in Australia and England, and everywhere else strict gun bans are enabled. Fact. Level the playing field; get trained to protect your family, cause it will get worse before it gets better.

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

Hey, we're all going to die eventually anyway, why not now? Tuck your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. Wave to your kids and spouse as you go. Imagine their pain and their dissapointment in you as a protector.

I'm sure you would be a hero and not a coward, but is it reasonable to treat it as a psychological problem rather than one of life and death? Instead of thinking about whether your family would be proud of your courage, maybe you should be worrying more about maybe getting shot in the back, or being at work when the bad guys with guns show up at your house. There are just so many ways that your romantic scenario could go wrong, even if you're very brave and expert, which taking guns out of circulation might help with.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

There are stories of people shooting guns in the air and someone getting hit and killed far out of sight.

I guess they were protecting themselves from "potential" assailants.

Strict gun control now.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

When people are taught to kill it gets to be a bad habit.

It is more complex than that. Military people are taught to dehumanize their "enemy." They are taught to kill while turning off their conscience. They become killing machines with no remorse. They become thoughtless robots with an addiction to guns and gun violence.

What happens to the brain damaged vets who are dumped back into civilian society?

They are prevented to own guns so they have wives or family member purchase guns for them. There is a loophole in the law that needs to be addressed.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

The off the track cop's name is Dorner. Some of his "manifesto" was read on the news, he flatly says all the lessons he learned in the military and in the police he will use to kill. "Who will watch the watchers" comes to mind. His burned out truck was found in the Big Bear area, mountainous and there's a snow storm coming in for that area. So he could have bitten off more than he can chew, yet he has been well trained in survival techniques. I am a bit more cautious going out, just knowing this killing machine has been in the area.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Bob Cesca has weighed in on the "only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" argument.

He logically argues that
In broader terms, here's why the left always loses the gun control debate: we're too inclined to acquiesce on serious points -- to concede to the immovable, uncompromising gun people. No matter what you or Bill Maher or Sam Harris say, the pro-gun lobbyists and their human predator drones in Congress will not concede on anything. Ever. Granting them validity on one of their most nefarious bumper-sticker slogans by using some sort of myopic hypothetical conundrum only empowers the NRA who absolutely will not offer a single reciprocal concession. The NRA types are hardline domino-theorists and they will forever argue that any encroachment whatsoever on gun ownership will lead to a tyrannical government usurping our freedom. They're clinging to the antiquated Second Amendment like religious zealots who worship at the altar of Leviticus. Again, you will not persuade them by capitulating to their nonsense.
Enough is enough. We have to get the guns and erase the toxic culture around them.

He also points out that
Several commenters have posted lists of gun incidents in which the gunman has been allegedly thwarted by a citizen with a gun. (Wow -- a lot of gun violence in America. Maybe we should do something about that.) It's important to note that these commenters plagiarized their posts from a column by Ann Coulter and an Examiner.com and Daily Anarchist writer named Davi Barker, claiming the information as their own without any attribution. I would advise you consider any factual information reported by these columnists as suspicious, not to mention the commenters who plagiarized them.

It is also interesting to note that many if not most of these incidents involved an armed home or business owner shooting an unarmed person.

Strict gun control now!

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

I'm sure you would be a hero and not a coward, but is it reasonable to treat it as a psychological problem rather than one of life and death? Instead of thinking about whether your family would be proud of your courage, maybe you should be worrying more about maybe getting shot in the back, or being at work when the bad guys with guns show up at your house. There are just so many ways that your romantic scenario could go wrong, even if you're very brave and expert, which taking guns out of circulation might help with.

Absolutely right, Greg. No argument. There's no way to totally prevent the bad guys (or girls) from being bad, and all life winds up dead eventually.

However, all life has the 'survival instinct,' too. Most of us have a will to survive. Some want to do this by having guns for protection against other guns, others want to take away everyone else's guns.

I agree it would be a better world if there were no guns, but outside of magic there's no way it's going to happen. The bad guys aren't going to give them up, and if the police could take them they would have already done so.

Worry? Worry is a waste of time. Preparation and anticipation and alertness keeps you alive, but even then, only sometimes.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

It is more complex than that. Military people are taught to dehumanize their "enemy." They are taught to kill while turning off their conscience. They become killing machines with no remorse. They become thoughtless robots with an addiction to guns and gun violence.

Perhaps it would be more productive to ban the military. I'm all for that!

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

It's worked fine for Costa Rica.