Gun Control

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

I've been lucky in my choice of neighborhoods, apparently. 22 years living in Kaimuki then 18 years in Waimanalo, and I've never experienced anything like what you describe. Never been burgled or threatened, never had a gun or needed one, never even saw a gun in the hand of anyone. Anyone could easily get into my house -- no one has ever tried. I do have a dog.

I have lived all over the world and have two unpleasant experiences. The first was San Jose, Costa Rica where a crazy Rasta man, apparently from Jamaica, physically accosted uaifi and me. I suffered a small cut on my hand as he grabbed my camera and tried to hit me over the head with it. Local Ticos (Costa Ricans) rescued us, apologized profusely, and protected us. The second time was the inner city of Los Angeles. A young black kid ran up to us at 7:00 am on a Sunday morning, simulated a gun in his pocket, and took $20 out of my pocket and my wedding ring. I did not resist and I never saw a gun. Do you think IF I WAS CARRYING A GUN that I am going to get into a gun battle with some young punk for $20 and a wedding ring that are easily replace?

That fact is that gun violence in the USA is rapidly increasing as gun ownership increases. This is sheer madness. It is time people stop buying into the NRA propaganda and paranoia fueled by the self interests of the gun industry.

STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Pardon? From where does such an assessment come? How are those "odds" measured and defined? Are guns owned by a majority of Hawai`i residents? If not, are the residents who have been "robbed/burglarized/raped" in the majority?

Leo, they just pull these assessments out of their paranoid, demented usi's.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Written by: Frank Kacer..............
I agree with this paragragh of his article, though don't believe in everything he wrote. http://communities.washingtontimes.com

That is all fine except that Kacer and the Washington Times are unpaid lobbyists for the NRA. Use your head, don't buy into the propaganda.

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

Your argument is that all of these countries have less freedom than the USA? Ludicrous!

In Munich, a German student who had been an exchange student in Michigan told me an amusing little anecdote about his experience when he first got to Michigan. He went to the nearest police station to report his address, and was quite surprised to find that the desk sergeant had no interest whatever in where he was living. "So you're from Germany? Well, welcome to the US."

Because, he told me, in Germany, when you move to a different town, the first thing you must do is check in with the polizei. They keep track.

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

Either you did not click on my link or you choose not to believe it. Which is it?

I did read your link. It doesn't deal with the issue of preserving freedom, which is, as you say, the NRA talking point. You can't expect to persuade people, if you remain silent about, and apparently unaware of, the issues that concern them.

Personally, I have no fixed idea about the matter. I'm still thinking about it.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

It doesn't deal with the issue of preserving freedom,

Owning a gun has nothing to do with the freedom to do whatever you damn well please. The countries cited in the study have as much, if not more, freedom than we have in the USA. In a civilized society there are limitations on what people can and cannot do. For example, you DO NOT have the "freedom" to yell fire in a crowded theater. You DO NOT have the freedom to rive down H1 at 100 mph. Gun ownership is directly related to violence on innocent bystanders - that's where "personal freedom" ends, when it ADVERSELY affects the public health, safety, and welfare.

In my opinion, most gun owners are gun nuts who are so paranoid that it is sufficient reason to take away their guns. Unreasonable and excessive paranoia is a mental illness and thus should preclude gun ownership.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Because, he told me, in Germany, when you move to a different town, the first thing you must do is check in with the polizei. They keep track.

Yes, and in the USA, we have a Social Security number. So what?

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

You can't expect to persuade people, if you remain silent about, and apparently unaware of, the issues that concern them

You haven't been listening. What concerns them is unrealistic and unmitigated paranoia - pull it out of the air odds, break ins, black helicopters, big government - fueled by an organization, the NRA, which is nothing more than a front for the weapons industry. You are being duped folks! Most of the time, counseling can help.

If you live in a dangerous neighborhood, you might think about moving or at least organize a Neighborhood Watch program. In CA, I live in a very safe neighborhood but I have a well intentioned neighbor who started a Neighborhood Watch program. It is her personal hobby to "check up" on all her neighbors. A couple of months ago, I was out of CA for several weeks, and I forgot to lock the french doors opening on the patio. We had a strong wind one night and blew the doors open. My neighbor was on top of it immediately! She had entered the house (I had given her advance permission) to check that everything was fine and she secured the place for me, then notified me by email. Then I sent one of the ta'ahine fefine to double check and yes, it was my oversight. Sure beats owning a gun.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Gun Control

In a civilized society there are limitations on what people can and cannot do. For example, you DO NOT have the "freedom" to yell fire in a crowded theater. You DO NOT have the freedom to (d)rive down H1 at 100 mph.

This is exactly the point that so many people fail to understand. Yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater is NOT protected by "the right to free speech." There is absolute, unfettered freedom in an anarchistic world; but in order to have some sense of a civil society, people agree to give up some of their individual liberties for the greater public welfare.

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

This is exactly the point that so many people fail to understand. Yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater is NOT protected by "the right to free speech."

Speech is protected from prior restraint. After you yell "fire" in the theater, if you caused people to be injured, you may be subject to penalty. But you can't be legally restrained from yelling "fire" in the first place -- that would be prior restraint, which is unconstitutional. Drawing the parallel, if you have a gun which you use to harm someone, you may be subject to penalty for the harm you caused with your gun. But preventing you from even having a gun is different. That would correspond to the case of prior restraint in speech.

Opponents of gun control do not argue that people should be free to use their guns to cause harm, but merely that they should be permitted to have guns to use for lawful purposes. Shouting "fire" in a theater is using speech to cause harm, and that is and should be prohibited, but speech which does not cause direct harm is and should be permitted. The appropriate analogy suggests that gun use for lawful purposes should be permitted.

[Amati]

Re: Gun Control

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
Adolph Hitler

We are now quoting Hitler as an expert on anything? That is a desperate gambit!

"Expert"? To help you along, the quote illustrates one of his strategies, in this case regarding gun ownership. Perhaps you should reflect on the wisdom of, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Gun Control

I don't currently own a gun, and I'm not affiliated with the NRA or other gun clubs, yet I want guns, lots of guns, of all sizes, for protection against those who have guns, lots of guns, of all sizes and never bother with registering their guns or take gun use training or care who they shoot.
I'd be a multiple gun owner if I'd had my way this year, fortunately our upstairs idiot neighbor had to move out.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

There are, indeed, gun nuts. Not every gun owner or proponent is a 'gun nut.'

There are also anti gun nuts, crazies who make the abolishment of American freedoms almost a way of life. These people rant and rave incessantly (you know who you are - no, you're most certainly in denial) even though they are in the minority, they would impose their beliefs on the majority. They are conspiracy theorists as well - accusing a membership organization like the NRA of all sorts of crimes and impositions upon America. It's like accusing the Democratic Party of being communists.

If you are against guns, don't own one.

It has been said that you can demonstrate anything you wish with carefully selected statistics, and this is the case here. Many countries (Brazil, for example) have a higher rate of firearm violence than the US. I'm not going to get into a war of statistics, because whoever publishes those statistics will slant them to represent their desires, not the truth.

I'm also divorcing myself from this rant. I've had my say. I'll let those with an agenda hammer it over and over and over. If you say something repeatedly enough you will get people to believe it is the truth, and that is obviously what is happening here.

[Amati]

Re: Gun Control

I'll let those with an agenda hammer it over and over and over. If you say something repeatedly enough you will get people to believe it is the truth, and that is obviously what is happening here.

Don't worry Kaonohi, that has not been the result of the discussion. The Second Amendment is still firmly in place with supporters.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

Holy God it looks like 20 children or more have been shot in Connecticut. How incredibly sad, words fail.