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  • Re: Gun Control

    Since the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, 71 additional children have been killed through gun violence. Of those 71, 29 were "accidentally" killed by other children.

    There is something fundamentally wrong with an American society that tolerates this violence toward children.

    STRICT gun control NOW!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    • Re: Gun Control

      "Tolerates"? Sadly, its more like "celebrates": guns for tots, get em into it early. And I thought "Toddlers & Tiaras" was sick.

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      • Re: Gun Control

        There has to be a better way of resolving conflict.

        The ability of Humans to talk to one another was created to avoid the

        pitfalls of sheer brute force.

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        • Re: Gun Control

          Originally posted by lensperson View Post
          The ability of Humans to talk to one another was created to avoid the pitfalls of sheer brute force.
          Not really.
          Greg

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          • Re: Gun Control

            12 shot at a Mothers Day parade in New Orleans. The beat goes on. And on

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            • Re: Gun Control

              Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
              12 shot at a Mothers Day parade in New Orleans. The beat goes on. And on
              And why does no one try to figure out "why?"

              Guns have been around for hundreds of years; it's not the guns.

              Why are people suddenly killing children, and mothers, and runners?

              What has changed?

              Don't give me that "Strict Gun Control" jingoism; there's a reason we are too dumb to perceive - yet.

              Overpopulation? Alienation? Marginalism?

              If we don't understand the REASON, we will never solve the problem.

              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
              ~ ~
              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

              Comment


              • Re: Gun Control

                OK, I'll bite. What has changed? Is it MTV or rock 'n roll or punk rock or liberal media or lack of religion in the schools or Playboy or computer games. You know, ages ago when the railroads were just getting started up pastors warned it was the beginning of the end of civilization. Similar warnings when the auto was introduced and again when radio started up, and of course with movies and television. Maybe they were right. Maybe we really do need to go back to the 1500's. Of course guns were a lot less available then.

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                • Re: Gun Control

                  It may be that there was less gun violence in the past but we'd have to look at statistics. We do know there was plenty of gun violence during Prohibition. The combination of lots of money to be made from illegal alcohol + gangs + guns produced loads of mob hits, the St. Valentines Day Massacre most notably. Bonnie & Clyde, Dillinger, etc, terrorized whole regions of the US into the '30's. The Wild West was pretty violent, too. Today we have the combination of profitable illegal drugs + gangs + guns and amazingly, incredibly, astonishingly...there is violence! Who'd have guessed. Truly we forget our past, but so fast! Its like an individual saying, "I will drink, I will smoke, I won't pay my rent, and my life will be just fine." I think society probably could get along just fine with the soft drugs being legal. There would be problems with harder ones being legal, no doubt about it. From what the media says meth sounds like it should remain illegal, maybe the only one that should. But the press freely lied about LSD and cannabis, they blew their credibility, so what they say about meth and crack may be totally true, and it may not, but how can you trust what they say any more.

                  I think the Charles Whitman shootings at the U of Texas might have been the first mass killing. August 1966 he shot people from the tower at U. Texas, killed over a dozen. I think I remember watching live network coverage. At autopsy it turned out he had a brain tumor, some thought it might have been the root cause. He was very well armed, very well prepared. How can you guard against an ex-marine getting a brain tumor and going nuts? Lee Harvey Oswald was also an ex-marine. To weed out such problem cases, would we have massive intrusive universal testing? Periodic mass testing? Or just testing for people when they acquire guns. And then renewal testing periodically. Or just continue to ignore the whole problem and accept a few hundred dead and hope to God we are not in the wrong place at the wrong time. Seems like alternative 3 is what most people like.
                  Last edited by Kalalau; May 13, 2013, 04:54 AM.

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                  • Re: Gun Control

                    Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                    OK, I'll bite. What has changed? Is it MTV or rock 'n roll or punk rock or liberal media or lack of religion in the schools or Playboy or computer games. You know, ages ago when the railroads were just getting started up pastors warned it was the beginning of the end of civilization. Similar warnings when the auto was introduced and again when radio started up, and of course with movies and television. Maybe they were right. Maybe we really do need to go back to the 1500's. Of course guns were a lot less available then.
                    What hasn't changed? But what factor or factors are responsible for the sudden increase in mass murders of innocents by non-military? We essentially have the same guns we did since the 1950's, certainly the same killing capacity. Yet we didn't have all this killing.

                    Your second post was very insightful, to a degree. In the 20's & 30's they didn't mass kill innocents, nor in the Wild West.
                    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                    ~ ~
                    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Gun Control

                      To some extent mass killings are copy cats. A small number of imbalanced people have set out to actually duplicate or out do the Columbine massacre. Whitman seems to have set the stage for mass slaughter and imbalanced people have been trying to duplicate it ever since. It would help a lot if mass killing weapons weren't available to them. American political rhetoric has gotten really insensitive and promotes intolerance and violence. "Second Amendment Remedies", the meaning is absolutely clear: kill people, that from a prominent politician with millions of followers. Talk radio has not helped. It might be true that picturing your political opponents as the spawn of Satan will help a station owned by that San Antonio radio monopoly make money, but if the tone of intolerance that kind of rhetoric sets promotes a single needless death its as grave a sin as murdering someone for money. It IS murdering someone for money, for people who are already insanely wealthy.

                      The same guns as in the 1950's? Again we'd have to look at statistics, it may be correct, but it may be that machine gun automatic type guns were a lot less available then. Probably available for the military but maybe not so available for the general public.

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                      • Re: Gun Control

                        The gvt. wants to lower the legal blood alcohol level from .08 to .05, saying it might save 10,000 lives a year. So what? Banning guns would save several times that number. If we're not going to do anything about guns why care about drunk driving. So there's nothing in the Constitution saying you have the right to drive drunk. Well there isn't anything saying you don't have that right, if we believe in strict constructionism, interpreting it as the Founding Fathers wrote it, drunk driving should be fine.

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                        • Re: Gun Control

                          Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                          To some extent mass killings are copy cats. A small number of imbalanced people have set out to actually duplicate or out do the Columbine massacre. Whitman seems to have set the stage for mass slaughter and imbalanced people have been trying to duplicate it ever since. It would help a lot if mass killing weapons weren't available to them. American political rhetoric has gotten really insensitive and promotes intolerance and violence. "Second Amendment Remedies", the meaning is absolutely clear: kill people, that from a prominent politician with millions of followers. Talk radio has not helped. It might be true that picturing your political opponents as the spawn of Satan will help a station owned by that San Antonio radio monopoly make money, but if the tone of intolerance that kind of rhetoric sets promotes a single needless death its as grave a sin as murdering someone for money. It IS murdering someone for money, for people who are already insanely wealthy.

                          The same guns as in the 1950's? Again we'd have to look at statistics, it may be correct, but it may be that machine gun automatic type guns were a lot less available then. Probably available for the military but maybe not so available for the general public.
                          Perhaps I should have said something like the same "killing capacity" was available: i forget that old people like me remember 100-round drum magazines that were attached to the .45 submachine guns (often carried in a violin case! FWIW!!) ONE HUNDRED ROUNDS! 0.45 Caliber (could knock down most African mobile wildlife), the caliber was designed for the "HUKS." i.e. the Philopino rebels which were 'seemingly' impervious\ to lighter ammo.

                          OK. The firepower was there, the criminals had use of it (legl or not), but it was ONLY used to kill fellow criminals, NOT innocents (except whan they were 'collateral damage.')

                          Something has changed:
                          WE NOW LOOK AT INNOCENT MASSES AS TARGETS!!!!!!!!
                          PLEASE HELP ME HERE. This is NOT right.

                          It is not GUNS, though guns facilitate the process. Will Matapule SToMP make ANY difference? i don't think so. Does anyone else?

                          I grant that we must stop mass killings of innocents. But until we understand WHY they occur and what drives them we are like snails in mud.
                          We need more information.
                          Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                          ~ ~
                          Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                          Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                          Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Gun Control

                            OOPS! I forgot to mention that up to a point, these weapons were generally available.
                            There were no mass-killings outside of the gangsters (And who cares?)

                            Anyone could get a .45 auto. Thompson 'Machine Guns" with round capacity between 10, 20, 50 and 200 rounds were all available. On the open market.

                            Anyone could commit mass murder of 100+PERSONA.

                            But it never happened.

                            There was not such division in society?

                            No one knew what 'Communists were?'

                            What was NOT going on?????????????
                            Last edited by Kaonohi; May 15, 2013, 12:08 AM.
                            Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                            ~ ~
                            Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                            Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                            Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Gun Control

                              I think I remember that Al Capone went away based on tax not paid on a machine gun or two. What a shame the gvt used technicalities to get around his Second Amendment Rights. I guess the NRA didn't help him fight his case for him back then because...it couldn't have just been the Italian ancestry. Nor his Catholicism. Maybe the NRA had a different (lets say more traditional) picture of Second Amendment Rights back in the '30's. Maybe THATS what changed. Only speculating here.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Gun Control

                                Here's one thing that changed that didn't help a bit. The closing down/cutting back on state mental hospitals. There have always been people about who just couldn't cope with reality. For a long time the state took it as a responsibility to care for these people. And then came Ronald Reagan. At the time mental health professionals were advocating for mainstreaming the patients who could handle reality. Reagan took advantage of the idea to mainstream basically all the patients so that taxes could be cut for the rich. You see the unbalanced about now, peeing and crapping in the streets. And every once in a while one of them gets ahold of a gun and the rest we all know. It sort of illustrates that you can save money by not spending it on things you need to spend it on. And why? So some billionaires can upgrade their yachts? Buy a few more private islands or estates in Monaco? It does no good to have crazy people roaming the streets. It isn't good for them and it isn't good for us. Yes, that was a thing that changed.

                                In looking up Capone I see he went away on simple tax evasion, nothing to do with guns. Still, somehow I recall a special tax put on machine guns that people would fail to pay and go away for that.

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