Homeless solutions

[Frankie's Market]

Thanx for talking out your snipey ass, again.

It's this kind of childish name-calling from you that is a sure-fire indication that I'm right on the topic. Thanks for the admission, Ron.

But, if you have proof that every tree needed to go, let's have it.

As D'Alani already stated, not every tree in that cemetery was removed. Of course, that fact would be obvious to anyone who actually took the time to look at the cemetery in question rather than making knee-jerk, self-contradictory posts.

As to the "proof" that numerous trees were damaging certain gravesites, the Advertiser cites that fact from a university study that was made.

[GregLee]

As to the "proof" that numerous trees were damaging certain gravesites, the Advertiser cites that fact from a university study that was made.

No, it doesn't cite such a "fact". The closest the story comes to saying anything about trees damaging gravesites is this:

University students spent weeks carefully recording every name and the condition of every grave for the 1987 report. The students identified 993 graves in the state's portion of Puea and 168 in the city's portion for a total of 1,161. Many more are likely unidentified because they are covered over by dirt or torn apart by tree roots.

The last sentence does not seem to be attributed to the 1987 report, and in any case does not report a "fact" about "numerous trees".

[Frankie's Market]

The last sentence does not seem to be attributed to the 1987 report, and in any case does not report a "fact" about "numerous trees".

Fair enough, then. The statement that tree roots were damaging graves came from an Advertiser article written by James Gonser.

And judging by the research and interviews that were conducted to write that article, it sure doesn't sound to me like Mr. Gonser was making up stuff out of thin air. But you're certainly free to think otherwise, if you want.

[Ron Whitfield]

Oh waiter, there's an asshole in my soup!

It's this kind of childish name-calling from you that is a sure-fire indication that I'm right on the topic. Thanks for the admission, Ron.
As D'Alani already stated, not every tree in that cemetery was removed. Of course, that fact would be obvious to anyone who actually took the time to look at the cemetery in question rather than making knee-jerk, self-contradictory posts.
As to the "proof" that numerous trees were damaging certain gravesites, the Advertiser cites that fact from a university study that was made.

[Ron Whitfield]

With the DC BS coming down the pike tomorrow, it look's like we'll have a few thousand more entire families out of their homes and onto the streets since there's no where near enuf shelter space for this sudden mass influx http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...y&id=193763381

The meager number of success stories in Hawaii showing the homeless 'movin' on up' will never compete with the usual numbers of new homeless each year, especially when you have inevitable moments like the above.

Strict homeless solutions now!

[Ron Whitfield]

The Weekly http://honoluluweekly.com/diary/2013/02/city-sidewalks/ has a mention of anti-homeless/sidewalk clutter bills 2,6,7 passing a 1st reading, and is a short but interesting read from various viewpoints. It's not suprising there are errant comments by complainers such as Glen Elliot who too typically decried how it's the Thomas Square homeless who are responsible for the sad conditiond there, when of course they are not the worst offenders but The City who've ignored maintaining/improving the park for decades and finally threw in the towel long ago by shutting down the fountain and locking the bathrooms at nite, to basically let the place decay.

I've recently seen many photos from the Bannick Collection (State Archives) that show how nice the town of Honolulu used to look 50 years ago with no litter to be seen, no stained and stinking sidewalks from every source possible, no bums flaked out in everybody's way, the town looked well cared for and positively sharp in appearance. That hasn't been the case for much too long, how worthlessly disgusting our appointed public servants have been in allowing such a gem to simply rot along with it's public.

[salmoned]

Ya think maybe the homeless then were less bold in staking claims in prominent locations back then? Surely, you're not suggesting we had no homeless then, or had a smaller percentage of homeless then, are you?

[D'Alani]

One cannot compare Honolulu of 50 years ago to today, it was a completely different city,everthing about it was different. There were probably half the amount of people and really more than half the amount of buildings. The Ilikai wasn't even built yet, Ala Moana Park was barely 10 years old, Magic Island was still in the making, and I believe the Aloha Tower was still the tallest building downtown. I personally never saw any "homeless" people sleeping on the streets or on public property. Of course I was only 16 years old at the time and may have not seen a lot of things.

[Ron Whitfield]

Ya think maybe the homeless then were less bold in staking claims in prominent locations back then?

Surely, you're not suggesting we had no homeless then, or had a smaller percentage of homeless then, are you?

Sure, plus physical violence in public is not as bold as then, there was no shortage of those willing to clean the sidewalks in their own ways.

Surely, I am saying we had much less, both in sight and 'hidden', and D's comment seems to back the first up quite well.

Manawela Boy was written long ago about those with no $ or home or shame, and Aala Park was the place to go. Not sure how locals cared for those down and out back then but I doubt it was better than now, at least there are currently organized assists, even if largely used as a scam.

[Frankie's Market]

Oh waiter, there's an asshole in my soup!

Whoa! You usually don't get this worked up, Ron. Does this problem personally affect you or something?

One cannot compare Honolulu of 50 years ago to today, it was a completely different city,everthing about it was different. There were probably half the amount of people and really more than half the amount of buildings. The Ilikai wasn't even built yet, Ala Moana Park was barely 10 years old, Magic Island was still in the making, and I believe the Aloha Tower was still the tallest building downtown. I personally never saw any "homeless" people sleeping on the streets or on public property. Of course I was only 16 years old at the time and may have not seen a lot of things.

You had people who were down and out back then. Back in the "good ole days" when zoning laws and building codes weren't as strict, there were more tenements and flop houses. Not just in Chinatown, like you saw in so many of the original Hawaii Five-0 episodes. But they were scattered around all over the island. I can personally recall several in Kalihi and Kaka'ako. These places mostly housed single people, but there were some families crammed in as well. Not the most pleasant places in the world to live, with drug and criminal activity lurking around the corner. While folks who lived in such conditions were not homeless, it was hardly an idyllic existence. You could say it was one step above being homeless. The gradual razing of those old tenements perhaps has contributed to the population now living on the street.

[Ron Whitfield]

Whoa! You usually don't get this worked up, Ron. Does this problem personally affect you or something?

You had people who were down and out back then. Back in the "good ole days" when zoning laws and building codes weren't as strict, there were more tenements and flop houses. But they were scattered around all over the island. I can personally recall several in Kalihi and Kaka'ako. These places mostly housed single people, but there were some families crammed in as well. The gradual razing of those old tenements perhaps has contributed to the population now living on the street.

Worked up about what, your snarky-prone replys, or the homeless problem? You, I can easily combat with humor, the latter does affect me personally (like everybody that doesn't have an ultra-pampered life), and is impossible to win singlehandedly, seeing people suffer needlessly at high costs to the community and smelling human waste so often is pathetic and unacceptable. This can mostly be resolved with little problem. Yes, that get's me worked up. I appreciate your reply concerning the tenements/flops, I remember many of those and they were a stopgap for many, but there were always those few that fell thru the cracks and onto the streets. There's not much to catch people on their way down now or to help them back up, that equals a weak community and ultimately a weak nation, of which we certainly are at this point.
Now, if you're asking if I'm homeless, in my current line of work I am bound to be between residences on occassion as it's usually impossible to know when the end of a term is approaching since people can die or things can and do change unexpectantly, just as when I've been boat/housesitting. I like to live rent-free, and have gloriously for 80% of my nearly 40 years here, Oahu is a goldmine for that. But you never know what's around the next corner when you live like that, or even as a renter, so I quickly learned to do homeless exceedingly well and it's no problem for me, especially since I'll probably be unhomeless again in short order. I consider myself homeless since leaving home at 16, usually with a roof of varying quailties over my head (sometimes I really score, like now and with my previous sitch), but other times I'm lazy and go wild if that's where life's road winds. It's way better for me than considering the available disgusting shelters, and the same attitude prevails amongst many whom I talk to and otherwise hear from. I'm familiar with the good, bad, and ugly, I know intimately what will work in solving these issues and what won't. In a few years I'll be retirement age and applicable for the bennies that comes with that, but meanwhile I want things to be better for those worse off which means bettering things for those well off too, they (like most, it seems) all too often don't see the benefits of helping those under them.

[Ron Whitfield]

Whack-a-mole! http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...y&id=195209521
They just traded one ugly blight for another if they leave the barriers up after trimming while the squatters take up at another nearby site, it'd be hilarious if it were even funny.
So Mayor Photo-op ramps up the harrassments, displacements, confiscations, and basic nastiness towards those encamped on the sidewalks, while they generally contain themselves and abide by the laws... but even a single word or action from him towards a sensible solution for the homeless? Ummm... cricket, cricket, cricket, yes, the silence is deafening.

[Frankie's Market]

Occupy protestors reveal their hypocrisy.

"If there's someone on a wheelchair and says it's a little inconvenient, what do you say to that person?" said KITV4 News anchor Kenny Choi.

"Sorry for the inconvenience. We're trying to change the world. How can I make it better?" said Russell.

Ha! For a group of so-called protestors who are fighting against injustice, here they are perpetrating an injustice of their own. Blocking off wheelchair access on the sidewalk for handicapped people.

"Sorry for the inconvenience" is all that witch has to say to handicapped people who are simply trying to pass through that sidewalk? So much for having any trace of the Aloha spirit and compassion for others.

When the relevant pieces of legislation comes up for a public hearing at Honolulu Hale, Mayor Caldwell can count on my support to sweep out the worthless garbage that litters our public sidewalks, once and for all.

[Kaonohi]

? So much for having any trace of the Aloha spirit and compassion for others.

Agreed. Our aloha spirit has been fading away under neighborhood criminals, (daily, 3 or more crimes occur within a mile of my house, and I live in the country), people who think they are entitled to a free ride, rude drivers, etc.

I do my part. I help people when I can, offer rides to walkers going uphill, let people cut into slow traffic. I get beautiful smiles, sincere shakas, and I hope it is contagious.

Spreading the virus of aloha.

[Ron Whitfield]

Was any revolution pretty?
C'mon, there were a few minor moments that seem to have been blown out of proportion against the squatters, maybe purposely...(?). And besides, looky how few tents there are on King St. now, the singleminded boohooer's are winning, where's the hoorahs? Not that those other campers suddenly found a safe comfy pad to crash at, no they're still upshitzcreek somewhere's else. Feel better?
Playing the Aloha card is absurd here, especially when the preponderance of it's lacking stems from those with the abilities to do the most help.

Councilman Stanley Chang introduced Resolution 13-41 that might explore alt solutions, but merely doing tent cities and boozing areas ain't cutting it.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...y&id=195478531

In today's SA 'Off The News' opinion, McNameless opines at the end the "We're not feeling too brotherly about the Occupy group here in the Aloha State" ...well, NO KIDDING! Maybe those with such attitude should've been working on that shortcoming a long tome ago and avoided this ridiculous mess.

And sorry ol' Ann James in Waikiki goes off on an ill-informed tangent concerning costs of hassling the homeless, no shortage of it's type to be found http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...y&id=195478571

[Kaonohi]

Perhaps it is time for tent cities, or for concrete-block housing, free of charge. Maybe we will see how fast people decide to live in tents on public parkland!

Frankly I do not know the actual degree of homelessness/poverty these people endure. I am unsurprised that the minions demand more. It is always thus.

Are they there by choice or chance? Probably mostly chance. I came to HI in 1975, or so, and found it hard to get affordable housing. It's much more difficult now. I think these are people living on the edge between survival and death. We owe them an alternative, even if it is a concrete-block building with minimal facilities.

What do they have now? Give them more than that and I think they will be grateful.

[Ron Whitfield]

I think these are people living on the edge between survival and death. We owe them an alternative, even if it is a concrete-block building with minimal facilities. What do they have now? Give them more than that and I think they will be grateful.

Most are nowhere near surviving just above death, the body can handle lots of abuse and we've developed an ever-growing culture that knows it can survive living wild in the community, they'll eek by. But there are thousands that would appreciate and maybe thrive in prison cell style free housing w/24 hr. access, even with hard core rules. And again, tents cities are DOA. Helping those floundering only strengthens the community and saves $ in the long run, it's a no brainer, but sometimes the easiest to solve problems are somehow the hardest to even start.

[Frankie's Market]

Helping those floundering only strengthens the community and saves $ in the long run, it's a no brainer, but sometimes the easiest to solve problems are somehow the hardest to even start.

Once again, it's hard to sympathize with folks who, themselves, shown no compassion and consideration for the disabled who are simply trying to access the sidewalk to get past Thomas Square. These Occupy squatters who are demanding that others help them, can't even find it in their heart to help others who are physically challenged. Damn hypocrites.

But they'll eventually get what's coming to them, just as the greedy T-shirt vendors and their bulky tables got swept off the sidewalks in Waikiki. It's just a matter of time. Looking at the bright side, it would be entertaining to see the ACLU be emasculated as far as helping the Occupy squatters. I know their lawyers would be wary of rolling back the rights of the disabled, which just might happen if they start filing lawsuits against the city as a response to the mayor citing ADA laws as justification to clear out the sidewalk encampments, once and for all.

[Ron Whitfield]

Once again, it's hard to sympathize with folks who, themselves, shown no compassion and consideration for the disabled who are simply trying to access the sidewalk to get past Thomas Square. These Occupy squatters who are demanding that others help them, can't even find it in their heart to help others who are physically challenged. Damn hypocrites.

But they'll eventually get what's coming to them, just as the greedy T-shirt vendors and their bulky tables got swept off the sidewalks in Waikiki. It's just a matter of time. Looking at the bright side, it would be entertaining to see the ACLU be emasculated as far as helping the Occupy squatters. I know their lawyers would be wary of rolling back the rights of the disabled, which just might happen if they start filing lawsuits against the city as a response to the mayor citing ADA laws as justification to clear out the sidewalk encampments, once and for all.

I keep an eye on what's happening at Thomas Square and there's no overt lack of compassion/consideration like what you describe, FM, the squatters know to keep everything legal and kosher so there aren't legit squabbles and from all I've seen are generally not demanding or being hypocritical. I know they welcome any/all interested in learning what actually is going on with the encampmenters by talking with them, and they have set days/times for discussions. Those who want to be informed better on the issues might give it a shot.

Your 2nd paragraph was an even sillier, and pointlessly meaner rant. Please try and elevate your postings.

[Kaonohi]

I passed Thomas Square this afternoon.

Everything and everyone was cleared out.'

The sidewalks were covered with Orange mesh citing "refurbishment" or "repair" or something.

All in all it's just another brick, in the wall.

I am torn.

When will the evacuators have black and red uniforms?
Where will the homeless go?

What happened to ALOHA? (my virus isn't working?!)

[Ron Whitfield]

I passed Thomas Square this afternoon. Everything and everyone was cleared out.' The sidewalks were covered with Orange mesh. Where will the homeless go?

The encampment merely moved to the King St. side while The City continues trimming trees along Beretania St.

One thing that impressed me about the unsightliness of the current dwellers, was how much better they are than those whom they displaced from two years ago when there were some real nasty critters habitating miserably, way worse than what's been there recently. Where were all the crybaby wails then?

[Ron Whitfield]

In today's SA op-eds we hear from Sherry Pollack (Kahaluu) who's urges those who spite the homeless to instead "use their intelligence and resources to fight the root causes of homelessness, not the victims" And that "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats it's weakest members. Let's be great!". I couldn't agree more, and it sounds like she was aiming it straight at the FM's of this world.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...y&id=198387031

[Ron Whitfield]

$77 mil for the homeless? http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...y&id=198667271
I'd bet that if all this money is allocated that the vast majority will be wasted, at best.
It's sadly amazing that in the entire artcle there is 0 mentioned towards ideas that will actually make a difference in favor of the homeless. At least I see that those in charge at the disgusting IHS are not in favor of the dead end tent city that so often is mentioned, but what do they have as an alternative, just funneling more bodies into their system? No thanx! I've seen nothing yet from the rare air crowd about workable solutions, just pathetic.
And on Cox's show this morning he mentioned how the essentially stolen possesions of the homeless by The City and then held for $200 ransom and contained at City facilities are rummaged thru by City workers and if something of interest is found it's usually stolen. How fucking sweet!

[Ron Whitfield]

Today the City Council will hear from the public concerning recent bills, one (bill 7) of which will allow immediate conficastion of personal property in which maybe some would be ransomed back to the owner in uncertain physical condition. Another, (bill 8) would effectively eliminate ALL free speech in all public parks, areas historically reserved for just such rights.
Our political (so called) leaders have already become Nationally rated as one of the top 10 meanest States and now seem determined to take the #1 spot.

[Ron Whitfield]

It was interesting listening to public testimony in Council chambers yesterday, in that there was some extremely well worded and meaningful thots against The City's goal of becoming the Nation's #1 meanest state in regards to the homeless with their bills, and there were a few in favor who were obviously running on emotion rather than information. One, whom described how she recently brought out her Mom's very large/wide walker at Thomas Square's makai sidewalk where the encampment currently is to see if she could get passed any/all of the tents without problems, and... she admitted she could. Yet, she was still opposed to them being there, simply because they were there.
The Council yawned and passed 7, thus further representing themselves as quite possibly the all-time worst Council in my 40 years here.

Look's like The City will be leaving the truly beautiful orange fencing and road signs up along the Beretania St. sidewalk that keeps it from any/all public use well into March, even tho the tree trimming seems all pau. What a great improvement!

BTW, our new Mayor was in chambers on another matter and certainly didn't have the happy campaign face on when having to be amongst those unhappy with him. He seems like a nasty person.