Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 37

Thread: Native Hawaiian independence?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oakland, CA (but I'm from Hilo!)
    Posts
    6

    Default Native Hawaiian independence?

    Aloha!

    I am a third year, native Hawaiian student at the University of San Francisco School of Law, and though I'm living in the Bay Area right now, I hail from the Big Island of Hawaii (Hilo side ) (I'm a Kamehameha grad, if anyone is wondering...).



    I am currently conducting a survey to measure opinions regarding the possible creation of a sovereign government for native Hawaiians. I am hoping that individuals from throughout the Hawaiian community (both native and non-native) may be willing to weigh in on this topic, providing thoughts and suggestions as to the pros and cons of federal recognition, indicating whether there is support for the federal recognition of native Hawaiians, and more.

    To participate in the survey, please visit http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=1gyih87QmmxyZJrLqAJA_2bA_3d_3d
    The survey has been designed so that you can answer anywhere from one to all of the questions.

    My intent is to publish the results of this survey in an article that will be available for consideration by lawyers, judges, legislators and the general public. This article could make a significant contribution in terms of policy making regarding the future recognition of native Hawaiians. I am committed to sharing the results of this survey with Indian country, as well as with the Hawaiian and Native communities at large.

    Thank you, in advance, for your participation.

    Best regards,

    Kahea Pacheco

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    missing the 808 in the 202
    Posts
    1,488

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Sorry, I understand the point, but it seems ironic being that you are in a mainland university...I recognize the irony, because the system I oppose of affords me the luxury to bite the hand that feeds, but that is what makes things open for all interpretation.

    Welcome to HT
    Last edited by TATTRAT; August 7th, 2008 at 05:10 PM.
    flickr

    An email from God:
    To: People of Earth
    From: God
    Date: 9/04/2007
    Subject: stop

    knock it off, all of you

    seriously, what the hell


    --
    God

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oakland, CA (but I'm from Hilo!)
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Thank you for the welcome! With this article, I'm really just trying to provide a forum and an analysis for the opinions of others, and putting those opinions in a format accepted by the legal community. If those opinions largely say that Hawaii should remain a state of the US, and Native Hawaiians should be ecstatic about it, then that's what I'll write about, thereby by-passing the need to bite anyone's hands!

    Besides, if I went to UH Law, it would still be the case that I would be "biting the hand that feeds me" since UH is a state school as well, and is therefore funded by the US gov.

    I will admit, however, that it was only when I was outside of Hawaii that I truly began to appreciate what being Native Hawaiian meant. Now THAT is ironic!

    Please take the survey, I'd love to hear from you!
    Last edited by kahea67; August 7th, 2008 at 05:46 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-Town
    Posts
    2,497

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Separating folks by race is just so 20th century.

    Humility is supposed to be a virtue in Hawaii. And yet, the whole issue of race is spiked with giant egomania.

    We are (insert race here). That is why we are (special, deserving, entitled, cheated, better, et al)

    So you are Hawaiian, and for some reason that makes you special.
    Well, I am a modern American, and am exactly as special for the same reasons.
    FutureNewsNetwork.com
    Energy answers are already here.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kailua
    Posts
    1,285

    Thumbs up Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    heh. I'm surprised by how often I agree with TimKona!

    But I took the survey and liked it. Its short, only 17 questions, some of which are multiple choice, and the questions that ask for a written response are gooooood! Do check it out, at least!

    Actually, no wait, I think that all of us HT'ers SHOULD DO the survey. BE the voice of Hawaii! I can't wait to read about the results from Kahea67. You will share the results with us, right Kahea?
    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-Town
    Posts
    2,497

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    I bet she won't like my answers to that survey.

    Gawd I hate racism.
    FutureNewsNetwork.com
    Energy answers are already here.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kailua
    Posts
    1,285

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    heh, again, as they may be very similar to mine. If I had thought to copy what my answers were, I could PM them to you, and we could have a no holds barred, knokdown, dragged out discussion. And that would be rad.

    I really, really can't wait to find out how this survey's results went!

    Kahea67, Is this a class project or something like that for USF?
    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oakland, CA (but I'm from Hilo!)
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    timkona, I'll love any answers to my survey. Please don't assume you know me, or what I think, or what I believe in. Because simple fact? You don't.

    The survey was made so that everyone, no matter what they feel about race or sovereignty, can answer as they see fit. If you disagree with sovereignty based on ancestry in Hawaii, then by all means, I'd appreciate that input into the survey, and ultimately into my article. And please feel free to have like-minded people like yourself do the survey as well! I'm not trying to get one-sided results, nor am I trying to skew the results with my personal opinion (which, again, you know nothing of).

    Yes, I am Native Hawaiian. I'm sorry that my being proud of it appears to offend you, and if my previous posts implied that I value being Native more than not, again, I'm sorry as that was not my intention. I was just trying to introduce myself, and I see being Native Hawaiian as part of who I am. You'll also notice that I mentioned I was a law student, though before conclusions are jumped to I'll say that being one doesn't mean I don't value people who aren't. I simply chose those as descriptors of who I consider myself to be. It does not, however, mean that I am for or against Native Hawaiian independence.

    Can't I be a Native Hawaiian and Modern American at the same time? Who is anyone to judge?

    And turtlegirl, I will most definitely post my article, once it's finished (which will probably not be for some time, since I'm still in the data collecting stages!), to this discussion forum for people to see! Thanks for taking the survey!
    Last edited by kahea67; August 8th, 2008 at 11:48 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oakland, CA (but I'm from Hilo!)
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    turtlegirl, it's an article i'm working on with a professor that we'll get published in a law journal once it's done.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    kailua, o'ahu
    Posts
    1,005

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    i took the survey yesterday and was not surprised by the questions some of which have been asked by others.

    kahea67, may we assume that you are also portuguese given your last name? or, is it your married name? do you identify more with being hawaiian? or, with both ethnicities?
    not that it really matters as the survey, to me, was not a race issue. but, rather about the sovereignty movement and the akaka bill.
    "chaos reigns within.
    reflect, repent and reboot.
    order shall return."

    microsoft error message with haiku poetry

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oakland, CA (but I'm from Hilo!)
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Hi kani-lehua! Agreed that this is not really that important, but to answer your question, I am also Portuguese, Filipino, Spanish, Chinese and French. I think I identify most with being Hawaiian, mainly because I went to Kamehameha and they kinda drill it home, you know?

    And you're right, the Akaka Bill is what spurred the idea for the article, and my interest in Native Hawaiian sovereignty as a political/racial movement is what helped the survey develop into what it is. I also specialize in tribal law, so the survey is also being sent to Native American orgs/etc. to get their input on federal recognition and what they think of it as it concerns Native Hawaiians.

    Should be interesting though!
    "Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent. That is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and she loves only warriors." - Nietzsche

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    kailua, o'ahu
    Posts
    1,005

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    thanks for answering.

    it will be interesting to read the final result (s).

    mahalo for your post and welcome to ht, kahea67
    "chaos reigns within.
    reflect, repent and reboot.
    order shall return."

    microsoft error message with haiku poetry

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    K-Town
    Posts
    2,497

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Why is Turtlegirl surprised by how often she agrees with me?

    Kahea says Who is anyone to judge?

    KSBE, OHA, DHHL, Kau Inoa, Sen. Akaka, Hitler, Milosevic, Mao, Hussein, the list goes on and on of those who would use race or ethnicity as a criteria to judge.

    In fact, using race as judgement criteria is a very popular notion in many cultures, not just Hawaiian. Think of America just 160 years ago. Or today with Affirmative Action.

    What kind of defeatist mentality does it take to naturally believe that because of who you are you have some need for special treatment or entitlement? Must be hard to have any self-esteem at all.

    It is the most important tenet in basic liberal philosophy to separate and categorize folks in order that some will qualify for your sympathy, while others do not.

    What kind of twisted sick egomania does it take to naturally believe that because of who they are, they cannot compete on an equal playing field?
    Last edited by timkona; August 8th, 2008 at 12:32 PM. Reason: forgot something
    FutureNewsNetwork.com
    Energy answers are already here.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Mō‘ili‘ili
    Posts
    2,456

    Post Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    I enjoyed taking the survey! I hope the data gathered proves useful. I’m looking forward to the results.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  15. #15

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by kahea67 View Post
    My intent is to publish the results of this survey in an article that will be available for consideration by lawyers, judges, legislators and the general public. This article could make a significant contribution in terms of policy making regarding the future recognition of native Hawaiians.
    Good luck with your article, I hope it proves helpful. But, are you sure that using SurveyMonkey will give an accurate, non-biased result? With a survey where people can "call in" or "link to" it, there is the strong possibility that a someone could call forth a movement by like-minded cohorts, and have their associates respond to the survey with certain pre-specifed answers. For example, "hey everyone, respond yes to question #52 and no to question #53". The results would be tainted. I would hate to see you go to all the work trying to write an article that would be considered by "lawyers, judges, legislators", but based on a potentially biased survey. You might find all your work is unusable. Check with your academic advisor on how to perform a survey that will hold up under scrutiny.

    Again, good luck.
    Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Returned to Molokai
    Posts
    3,419

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    Separating folks by race is just so 20th century.
    Started in the 19th century, and so far, it hasn't gone the way of the dodo.

    Besides, until the USA can assimilate the Native American Indian Nations in the US territory, I doubt we can drop the Native Hawaiian Independence issue anytime soon.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Affirmative Action never made any sense to me until an econ class where the prof flat out said it was the easiest way to jack up the economy. If minorities which now don't have the same buying power as whites did, the gnp would leap ahead, the idea is so simple--you actually do want your customers to walk in the door with as much disposable income as possible. If it takes setting aside some spots in colleges and universities to do that, so be it. But why not quit squandering money on (fill in the blank) and just build more colleges & universities? The same prof also posed the question, what was the most profitable investment the fed. gvt. ever made. So many possibilities...TVA, national highway system, WPA projects still in use today. Give up? It was the GI Bill, it raised the employability and skills of millions, put em all in higher tax brackets (which most of us like being in).

    As to Hawaiian Independence. Once I saw an old Zuni indian being interviewed. The question came up, does it bother you that your people have been subjugated to the US. "My people were here thousands of years before the US ever existed and we will be here after its gone". So Hawaiian independence is going to happen, it is just a question of when and how. Our USA will not last forever, nothing ever does, and there have been some very bad decisions made recently that might shorten its life significantly. When it dissolves, Hawai'i will be cut loose. It may or may not find a happier situation than it now enjoys. A friend brought back a photo of some old Soviet monument from the former East Germany that proclaimed the eternal friendship of those two nations, neither of which exists now. The USSR was ended remarkably peacefully, with the stroke of a pen. Thats all it takes to end an empire.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    So Hawaiian independence is going to happen, it is just a question of when and how. Our USA will not last forever, nothing ever does
    Note: Hawaiian independence already happened; it was an independent kingdom for quite a while. It did not last forever, nothing ever does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    The USSR was ended remarkably peacefully, with the stroke of a pen.
    Peacefully? Tell that to the South Ossetians, Chechens & Georgians.
    Last edited by Leo Lakio; August 11th, 2008 at 09:29 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever I am, I'm there
    Posts
    3,198

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by kahea67 View Post
    I am also Portuguese, Filipino, Spanish, Chinese and French. I think I identify most with being Hawaiian, mainly because I went to Kamehameha and they kinda drill it home, you know?!
    I am really confused! Kahea, in your first post, you identified yourself as "native Hawaiian." Yet above you identify yourself with various ethnic backgrounds. Is the only criteria for being "native Hawaiian" attendance at Kamehameha school? I am not being facetious, this is a sincere question. To me "native Hawaiian" means 100% Hawaiian and frankly I don't believe there are very many of those around. I bet you can find a little bit of British sailor in most every native Hawaiian background.

    Another question. Historically, it is reported that the Hawaiian population that emerged prior to British exploration and then domination, came from Tahiti. However, it is reported that those Tahitians subceded people from the Marquesas, who those same Tahitians subjugated, dominated, and eventually eliminated. And who knows who superseded the Marquesans. So the question: who really has the right to be called "native Hawaiian" those Tahitians who were interlopers (just like the Europeans that followed) or some earlier group of people who no longer exist? It is a racial conundrum.

    Native Americans (Indians) also practiced racial genocide on other Native American tribes in order to gain supremacy, which is not too much different than what the Europeans did in the Americas. So who holds the moral high ground with regards to being a "special people" anywhere in the world?

    A bit off-topic, but that is a reason that I am probably not going to vote for Obama (not going to vote for McCain either) since although he is half black and half white, he has chosen to identify himself as "black." I so much wanted Obama to say, "These are my positions. Vote for me because of my positions, not because of my race. America, it is time to go beyond the race issue." In my opinion, Obama is just trying to feather his nest by being the first "black" President and assure himself a place in history. I wanted Obama to be the first president to create a Renaissance in the US and assure his place in history.

    I ask these questions with aloha to further discussion and create a deeper understanding of the issues.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  20. #20

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    The USSR was dissolved with the stroke of a pen on Christmas day 1991.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    The USSR was dissolved with the stroke of a pen on Christmas day 1991.
    But not, as you said, "peacefully." There have been a number of wars amongst several of the former Soviet republics, including the one that flared up again last Thursday.

    Incidentally, for the sake of accuracy, 12/25/91 was the date of Mikhail Gorbachev's resignation as President of the USSR. The Belavezha Accords (declaring the USSR dissolved and replaced with the Commonwealth of Independent States) were signed 12/8/91, starting the process of the Union's final month. The Alma Ata Protocol was when most of the States signed dissolution papers (with the exception of Georgia), on 12/21/91, with all but the Baltic States announcing their intention to join the CIS. The Council of Republics of the Supreme Soviet recognized the dissolution on 12/26/91.

    Your version is a bit too cleanly movie-like, but not fully accurate.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Mō‘ili‘ili
    Posts
    2,456

    Lightbulb Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    A bit off-topic, but that is a reason that I am probably not going to vote for Obama (not going to vote for McCain either) since although he is half black and half white, he has chosen to identify himself as "black." I so much wanted Obama to say, "These are my positions. Vote for me because of my positions, not because of my race. America, it is time to go beyond the race issue." In my opinion, Obama is just trying to feather his nest by being the first "black" President and assure himself a place in history.
    Like you, I will likely not vote for either Barack Obama or John McCain. Both of them are establishment candidates whose hands are already tied to partisan loyalties and special interests (though Obama to a lesser extent). But I must refute your assertion that Obama has chosen to identify himself as “black.” He has told the story countless times quite proudly of his white Kansan mother and black Kenyan father, and has made it part of his campaign biography.

    Yet, it is the mainstream media, particularly through television, radio, newspapers and Internet channels, which have continued to identify him as “black.” Do you ask Harvard University, to tell the New York Times that Obama is not first black president of the Harvard Law Review? As a candidate for a national political office, do you waste your time calling up thousands of media outlets to correct their characterization of your race?

    As long as the messages being relayed to the masses are not complete falsehoods, you learn to live with it, and concentrate on ensuring your campaign message and political priorities get the airtime and page space they deserve.

    That’s one of the unfortunate realities of today’s politics.

    [/offtopic]

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oakland, CA (but I'm from Hilo!)
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    I am really confused! Kahea, in your first post, you identified yourself as "native Hawaiian." Yet above you identify yourself with various ethnic backgrounds. Is the only criteria for being "native Hawaiian" attendance at Kamehameha school? I am not being facetious, this is a sincere question. To me "native Hawaiian" means 100% Hawaiian and frankly I don't believe there are very many of those around. I bet you can find a little bit of British sailor in most every native Hawaiian background.
    Aloha Matapule. Though I hesitate to get into this conversation because it includes discussion of "Hawaiian blood" and some may automatically assume that it makes me racist, I just wanted to quickly try and answer your question. I think a lot of people will have differing definitions of what it is to be "Hawaiian" or "n/Native Hawaiian" particularly since the U.S. has different definitions for us in terms of blood quantum (some entities require one to be "50%" Hawaiian Polynesian blood in order to be considered "n/Native Hawaiian"). But in my opinion, it is the presence of the native ancestry, the native blood, rather than the absence of all others, that makes one "n/Native Hawaiian." When I say that I am Native Hawaiian, I simply mean that I can trace my ancestry back to the Hawaiian Polynesians who lived in Hawaii both through documentation and my family's oral history (though I'll whole-heartedly admit that it does not go so far back as to trace my line to those who sailed from our "mythical" homeland of Hawaiki). Though I don't doubt it as a valid belief, I haven't met anyone yet who believes one needs to be "purely" Hawaiian of Polynesian descent in order to be considered "n/Native Hawaiian.

    You are right, there are, sadly, relatively few left who can claim to be 100% "n/Native Hawaiian." It is the result of both inevitable progress, and tragic circumstance.

    In order to attend Kamehameha, one needs to verify "n/Native Hawaiian" ancestry by documentation (birth certificates tracing Hawaiian blood back several generations) prior to acceptance into the school. Whereas many programs quantify the amount of "n/Native Hawaiian" blood necessary for participation, Kamehameha just requires that all students be [some amount of] "n/Native Hawaiian." In that way, it is inaccurate to say that attending Kamehameha makes you "n/Native Hawaiian," as there are unfortunately many "n/Native Hawaiians" who cannot attend. Rather, you are able to attend Kamehameha because you are "n/Native Hawaiian."

    I know there will most likely be heated disagreements with what I've just said, and I can only say that this is my opinion. Everyone is entitled to take what they will and leave what they won't.
    Last edited by kahea67; August 12th, 2008 at 05:08 PM.
    "Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent. That is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and she loves only warriors." - Nietzsche

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever I am, I'm there
    Posts
    3,198

    Default Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by kahea67 View Post
    since the U.S. has different definitions for us in terms of blood quantum (some entities require one to be "50%" Hawaiian Polynesian blood in order to be considered "n/Native Hawaiian"). But in my opinion, it is the presence of the native ancestry, the native blood, rather than the absence of all others, that makes one "n/Native Hawaiian."
    Whoa! So it is some artificially manipulated number? Let's make it 100% then if we are going to manipulate a number. Oh heck, let's make it 50% and then you would still be excluded. Let's allow everyone to make up their own definition and that is where we are today. In other words, let's make it just enough for me to be included but the heck with everyone else. Hmmmm, what happened to the Aloha spirit?

    I don't think that there is any argument that we all come from the same Homo sapiens gene pool. So that makes us all related, you and I. So, if I am related to you, does that make me one infinitesmally part Hawaiian? Do I have a stake in the "native Hawaiian" claim? What is more important, where my ancestors came from or who I am as a person, today? I don't know, these questions confuse me.

    When I say that I am Native Hawaiian, I simply mean that I can trace my ancestry back to the Hawaiian Polynesians who lived in Hawaii both through documentation and my family's oral history (though I'll whole-heartedly admit that it does not go so far back as to trace my line to those who sailed from our "mythical" homeland of Hawaiki).
    So are you saying that you are part of the migrant Polynesian group that overpowered the earlier inhabitants of what is now called the Hawaiian Islands? Because you were part of the dominant emergent group, that gives you special right to the Islands. Do you see where I'm going with this? How is that different than what the early European Colonists did when they supplanted the previous native occupants?

    Kamehameha just requires that all students be [some amount of] "n/Native Hawaiian." In that way, it is inaccurate to say that attending Kamehameha makes you "n/Native Hawaiian," as there are unfortunately many "n/Native Hawaiians" who cannot attend. Rather, you are able to attend Kamehameha because you are "n/Native Hawaiian."
    According to posters on the Kamehameha thread that is not true. Some 100% Anglos do attend. So does that make them native Hawaiians just because they attend?

    Although I am 100% Anglo (I guess), I was made an official matapule (talking chief) by my noble, Fakatulolo, in an official kava ceremenoy in Tonga, that gives me special rights and priveleges in the Tongan culture. That makes me an official citizen of the Kingdom of Tonga. Does that give me some rights as an honorary Polynesian? Do I have a stake and claim for the mantle of Tongan? Does it make me a "special" person? No, it makes me a LUCKY person. Lucky to be a small part of the Polynesian culture that I so admire and cherish. You see, Kahea, we are proud of the same thing and we both want to see the Polynesian cultures flourish. What is the best way to accomplish that? Hawaiian Independence? I'm not sure.

    I will leave you with this, hoku me'a (my friend). You are a law student. This is good practice for you to learn the art of contructive debate under fire. You are doing fine so far, remaining cool, but there are some gaps in your logic for which you will be skewered by an experienced, practiced attorney on perhaps a different subject in a differenet venue at some time in the future, but that's the way you learn. I am not an experienced, practiced attorney for the record.

    BTW, I have some problems with your survey. If you are interested, send me a PM.

    Monumanumonoia
    Last edited by matapule; August 12th, 2008 at 07:33 PM.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    middle of da ocean
    Posts
    5,500

    Post Re: Native Hawaiian independence?

    Jus' wanted to add link from this morning's newspaper.

    Honolulu Advertiser

    No personal comment at this time.
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •