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  • #61
    Re: Snowden/NSA

    Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
    ... but as a committed idealist brutalizing harmless minorities really ought to make him think some.
    This makes no sense. Since he is an idealist, Snowden should go to jail in the US in order to prevent Russia's persecution of minorities?? You must think idealists are really dumb.
    Greg

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    • #62
      Re: Snowden/NSA

      Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
      The US is not ideal, but at least it is moving in the right direction, away from the violence and authoritarianism of the Dark Ages.
      It may still be moving but it's just death throes, the rattle as the promise succumbs.
      https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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      • #63
        Re: Snowden/NSA

        The US in its death throes? Sadly, that may be true. The economic damage done by Bush & Reagan, the destruction of the middle class, astronomical student loan debts needlessly crushing future generations, all of it, could bring the US down. The sequester. Jeeze. But socially the US & the rest of the western world are moving away from the superstitiously based brutality of the Dark Ages and Russia isn't.

        Amazingly enough we are coming up on the 50th anniversary of the assassination of JFK. Lee Harvey Oswald rejected America, moved to Russia, fell out of love with it, and returned. The world might have been a better place if he had stayed there. The point is, for certain reasons that might have come from unrealistic idealism Snowden broke the law and now resides in Russia. If his idealism has a hint of reality, the reality of gays being deliberately brutalized with the blessing of the Russian gvt should offend or alarm him. Its symptomatic. There is probably a lot that goes on in Russia that would alarm or offend an idealist. Will he come "home"? I wouldn't. But then, I wouldn't have taken a job doing things I didn't believe in doing. If he didn't believe in doing his job he should have quit. People do that all the time. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime"

        It is weird for me to be defending the gvt regarding spying because I don't like spying and I think the gvt usually takes things too far. Remember when drug testing started? It was so reasonable, test airline pilots. I mean, who wouldn't feel safer knowing his pilot hadn't just mainlined some smack or tooted some flake. But before you knew it there was a huge industry testing people and procedures for getting around the tests had been perfected and its mostly a waste of time and everybody knows it. So it is with spying. If it actually prevents Al Qaeda from setting off H bombs across the country, who can really complain about that. If its as limited as the gvt says it is, I can't really object. But knowing how things work I wouldn't be surprised if the gvt comes to use spying to clear all kinds of crimes.
        Last edited by Kalalau; August 11, 2013, 02:16 PM.

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        • #64
          Re: Snowden/NSA

          At this stage it's how do you want Uncle Sam to go out, kicking and screaming in horrific civil bonfires across the country making Mad Max seems idyllic, or worse?

          Assange has it right, as usual... http://news.yahoo.com/assange-calls-...225130357.html
          Last edited by Ron Whitfield; August 11, 2013, 02:52 PM.
          https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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          • #65
            Re: Snowden/NSA

            To me, presumption of innocence means presumption of innocence. If you are presumed innocent the gvt has no right to launch an investigation against you. If there is some evidence you might be doing something wrong they can take it to a judge and get a warrant to investigate you but other than that, I think they should be prohibited from investigating you at all. So to me, blanket phone or computer spying seems on the face of it unwarranted and unwarrantable and unconstitutional. Courts don't agree. Maybe Alberto Gonzalez was actually right when he called the Bill of Rights "quaint". A pleasant memory from a simpler era. Its a world of difference across the border in Mexico where law is not based on English common law like here, I think its based on Napoleonic code and the state has much more power. So its definitely not in character for me to buy the gvt case for blanket spying to prevent terrorism, knowing as I do that it will of course be extended for drugs, porn, tax crimes, etc.

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            • #66
              Re: Snowden/NSA

              That's all mute since Bush made it legal to have any US citizen disappeared/jailed/killed with no questions asked or answered.
              https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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              • #67
                Re: Snowden/NSA

                Another presumption of innocence issue for me is drunk driving check points. Of course if a person is demonstrating impaired driving that is reasonable cause to stop them and check them. But to just blanket check everybody? The theory they sell it on is, driving is not a right, its only a privilege. Oh. Where in the Constitution or in English common law does it say the presumption of innocence only applies if you are not driving. But people don't care. Its sold on safety and people eat it up. We have internal border checkpoints just like they had in East Germany here, on all the highways out of SD County. No probable cause. Everybody just stops, the internal border guards come and briefly check you or have a drug dog sniff your car if they have reports on you. Its an inconvenience any time you drive north or east. Theoretically, its to catch those brown people everybody hates so much. So everybody gives up the presumption of innocence and they are perfectly happy with it as long as it keeps those awful brown people out of the country as it has so successfully these many years.

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                • #68
                  Re: Snowden/NSA

                  To me, the war against Manning/a free press/Edward Snowden and his endless escapades of pissing off his detractors has been the story of the year. News room water-cooler guesstimates of how much more devestating info does he have and how does he know just when to drop these real bombshells are heating up, yet the networks won't talk about it on air. The Obama admin. is dancing on eggshells fearing every war room thot could haunt them and how their campaign against Snowden/whistleblowers isn't going as hoped.
                  https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                  • #69
                    Re: Snowden/NSA

                    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9850RU20130906

                    On another note, it make's one wonder how much $$$ has been stolen/made by Gmt. personel via insider trading info gleaned from reading everybody's emails...
                    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                    • #70
                      Re: Snowden/NSA

                      Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                      http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9850RU20130906

                      On another note, it make's one wonder how much $$$ has been stolen/made by Gmt. personel via insider trading info gleaned from reading everybody's emails...
                      BTW, pretty funny that these SO VERY BAD citizens are being lauded as they should be, with Manning having over 100,000 signatures worldwide sent to the Noble Peace Prize committee for his nomination, and Snowden's nominated for human rights distinction in Europe to sit along side the likes of Mandela, Mother Theresa, and San Suu Kyi.
                      https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                      • #71
                        Re: Snowden/NSA

                        Whooops!
                        The human factor raises it ugly head again as petty and unprofessional NSA employees used surveilience to spy on family and friends. Awesome!
                        http://news.yahoo.com/u-internal-wat...140630189.html

                        But true American's like Snowden are the bad guys?
                        https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                        • #72
                          Re: Snowden/NSA

                          I wonder if the DoJ will persecute journalists in general like they have Snowden & Co.?
                          http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/us...anted=all&_r=0
                          https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                          • #73
                            Re: Snowden/NSA

                            http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/moz...ry?id=20684699

                            I always feel like somebody's watching me.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Snowden/NSA

                              I just love how the steady drip keeps rightfully informing the US public and exposing the Gmt. perps, it must have them all freaking out!
                              https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                              • #75
                                Re: Snowden/NSA

                                I spy with my little eye.....

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