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Government Shutdown 2013

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  • #16
    Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    I found the following to be an interesting read. It's just one person's take on the situation. I'll let you HTers pick it apart as you see fit.

    "People:

    Before you begin your rant about how terrible everyone in Washington is, make sure you get the facts straight.

    This is NOT about the President, who is asking Congress to pay for expenses they've already approved, including the Affordable Care Act, which was approved by two houses of Congress, signed into law, upheld by the Supreme Court, and, when made into a central issue of the 2012 election, was not overturned by the voters.

    This is NOT about the refusal of Democrats to compromise. Obamacare IS the compromise. It was the Republican counterproposal to the nationalized health care plan from the Clinton administration. That's why Mitt Romney pushed it through in Massachusetts (yes, the economist who wrote the Massachusetts plan said Romneycare is the same as Obamacare). It's a mandate for people to buy PRIVATE health insurance. Nothing could be more Republican. Many Democrats hate/d the Affordable Care Act because it didn't nationalize health care, but they . . . compromised . . . so 40 million more Americans, including people with pre-existing illnesses, could get health care. There's been no Republican counter-proposal because OBAMACARE IS THEIR PLAN. Obama adopted it because he thought they'd support their own plan. How crazy was that?

    This is NOT about "Congress." The Senate -- which has brought the House resolution to the floor multiple times, and amended and approved the amended bill by majority vote -- has approved a "clean" funding resolution, but the Speaker of the House WILL NOT ALLOW THAT RESOLUTION TO COME TO THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE FOR A VOTE. Were it to be voted on in the House, there's a reasonable probability it would pass with support of Democratic members and a significant number of moderate Republicans.

    Why won't the President and the Senate accept the Republican proposal to delay a year? Because it's already been delayed. The Republicans are trying to stall until after the 2014 elections, hoping to win both House and Senate so they can overturn the law. They also are terrified that once people sign up and get healthcare and like it, they'll think -- as they did with Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security -- that it's a pretty good thing. THAT, Senator Cruz, is the real message of "Green Eggs and Ham," which you completely misunderstood.

    This IS about a small group of about 30 legislative terrorists who would rather blow up the government than permit legislation they don't like, even when approved by majority vote, to be enacted. It's also about a Speaker of the House who will not permit a bill to come to the floor for a vote unless the terrorists approve.

    This is really about whether we believe in democracy -- in majority rule -- or not. You don't get to wreck the country every time you don't get your way.

    If all the Border Patrol officers -- who as of this morning are working without pay -- would go home, I wonder how long it would take the Senators from Texas to get the message?"

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Government Shutdown 2013

      Originally posted by GregLee View Post
      How is this Obama's fault?
      1. He could negotiate with the Ratpublicans.

      2. He could issue an "Executive order," (he's done quite a few of those already).

      3. He could stop acting like a petulant child who won't eat his broccoli.

      4. He could realize "My way or the highway" solves nothing.

      Our representatives represent US. Many people are against "Obamacare" (what an arrogant man! Name a program after yourself), and our reps are protecting our interests.
      Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
      ~ ~
      Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
      Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
      Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Government Shutdown 2013

        Originally posted by GregLee View Post
        If everybody is to get health insurance, everyone has to pay premiums, so that healthy people will pay for sick people. That's just how it works. If you're one of the healthy ones, well, sorry about that.
        Gee, that sounds like... Communism!

        MARX: "From those who have, to those that lack." (inexact, but same meaning)

        Wonderful. We have a communist president. Why did we take down the USSR? We should have just joined them.
        Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
        ~ ~
        Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
        Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
        Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Government Shutdown 2013

          Originally posted by tutusue View Post
          This is really about whether we believe in democracy -- in majority rule -- or not. You don't get to wreck the country every time you don't get your way.
          Someone just doesn't get it.

          Democracy is not and never has been about "majority rule."

          democracy
          : a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting
          : an organization or situation in which everyone is treated equally and has equal rights
          : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
          : the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority

          NOT "majority rule," the rule of equality of the people.

          Love it or leave it.
          Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
          ~ ~
          Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
          Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
          Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Government Shutdown 2013

            I get it. We let the people who lost the election big time and who lost in the legislative process then lost in the courts go ahead and abolish a law they didn't like. Yes, we must be protected from majority rule. Let the minority rule. The petulant spoiled brat minority, let them decide everything. Who even needs elections. Who needs a congress. Just let Ted Cruz (Canadian) decide everything for us. Lets all cheer: Down With The Constitution! Nobody has to accept reality, go ahead and play a fifth quarter or a tenth inning if your team has lost in regulation.

            So would this absolute BS have been tried on Dec. 8, 1941? Sept. 12, 2001? Or pick any random date when the USSR existed. I think not. Somehow the absence of visible ( ! ) direct threats emboldens the petulant child like spoiled brat minority to shut down the government. And what happens if Al Qaeda happens to chose this time to strike. Oh I can just hear the Republicans blaming Obama & the Democrats for it. So predictable.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Government Shutdown 2013

              Would there have been any problem with a minority using the same tactic to block Social Security (Republicans hated the idea), Medicare (ditto), the Voting Rights Act, on and on and on. When the process plays out according to law you are supposed to accept the result. And lets not forget this whole teapot thing is a creation of the Koch Brothers, of the John Birch Society line, the same group that said Eisenhower was a conscious ( ! ) agent of the international Communist conspiracy. Rational? Is that the kind of rational mind anyone wants dictating the policies and laws of the government. Just let them decide everything, thats obviously how its playing out. Its a coup de etat, without a shot being fired. Inmates running the asylum, indeed.

              It would have been nice if this strategy had been around to keep the US out of Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Unfortunately the legislative process ran its course and people obeyed the law. Pity.

              Thinking it over, its actually a good strategy. Income tax could have been blocked. The Civil War could have been blocked. Appointments to courts, treaties, Head Start, the list of things that could have been blocked is endless. It should be used next time a Republican president wants to do anything. Anything at all.
              Last edited by Kalalau; October 4, 2013, 08:47 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                It's not even worth caring about any more, this country is a dead man stumbling and all that's left is the final face plant and the wind carrying away the remains. The sooner this country burns to a crisp and goes under the waves the better, it's been a detriment to everything on this planet for a long while now and needs to disappear. But, I gotta say, it's been fun.
                https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                  Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                  Let the minority rule.
                  Lopeti, it just shows how dangerous these terrorist traitors are. It is fine to oppose the government on some issue of law or policy. It is quite another thing to attempt to bring down the government when they don't get their way. Never let your guard down.
                  Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                  People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                    Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                    Originally posted by GregLee
                    How is this Obama's fault?
                    1. He could negotiate with the Ratpublicans.

                    2. He could issue an "Executive order," (he's done quite a few of those already).

                    3. He could stop acting like a petulant child who won't eat his broccoli.

                    4. He could realize "My way or the highway" solves nothing.
                    The "this" in my statement, which you misrepresent by quoting out of context, referred to the squabble among Republicans that leaves Boehner the choice between blocking a clean CR and losing his Speakership. That is obviously none of Obama's doing. Your points 1-4 are completely irrelevant to what I said.
                    Greg

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                      Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                      Gee, that sounds like... Communism!

                      MARX: "From those who have, to those that lack." (inexact, but same meaning)

                      Wonderful. We have a communist president. Why did we take down the USSR? We should have just joined them.
                      Insurance takes from those who are more fortunate (premiums) and gives to those who are less fortunate (insurance benefits). Are you against all insurance because it's "communist"? Maybe you're just making a joke.
                      Greg

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                        When poor people get sick they go to emergency rooms. Emergency rooms are the most expensive form of care. If they can't pay their bills either the tax payers (you) pick it up or if an insurance company does and your rates go up. Sane medical care means you get to see a doctor and get early care when things are easier (and cheaper) to cure or treat. Communism. Hmm. Well it works fine in Canada and England and Germany and Japan and France and all kinds of other places. When people get sick in America if their insurance company drops them they head to Canada or Mexico. Mexico! You hit a lifetime limit on your insurance, voila, you are on your own. You are dead. Its a great system. For the insurance companies. It is astoundingly inefficient.

                        As to America collapsing. Yes. Nothing lasts forever. The teapot districts are protected from competition by gerrymandering, they are safe virtually forever. Combine that with nut cases willing to obliterate the functions of government and yes you do have collapse. Too bad. It had a lot going for it. If only it could have reformed, avoided crucial mistakes like filibustering and gerrymandering and broadcast deregulation and Citizens United and Bush v. Gore. Too late now. I will not be alive when the kukae really hits the fan. It won't be pretty. I guess Hawai'i will finally get to be independent until Russia or China or Japan or somebody else decides to make a move. I just think of all those thousands of nukes sitting around inadequately maintained and guarded. Its a shame really. And there's not a damn thing we can do to stop it from circling down the toilet bowl of history. Thats a great phrase.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                          Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                          When poor people get sick they go to emergency rooms. Emergency rooms are the most expensive form of care. If they can't pay their bills either the tax payers (you) pick it up or if an insurance company does and your rates go up. Sane medical care means you get to see a doctor and get early care when things are easier (and cheaper) to cure or treat.
                          That's another reason why some have such a hard time understanding liberals. The more liberal you are the more truly conservative you are, because we want to help people stay away from higher priced illnesses and care costs by getting them the care they need to prevent it in the first place instead of it costing at least 10 times more when it's bad, and often too late.
                          https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                            Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                            The more liberal you are the more truly conservative you are,
                            This is the most perceptive and sensible thing you have said in ages. I agree.
                            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                              Everything the Republicans Need To Know My Dog Learned in Obedience School

                              Just love that Helen! The previous blog entries are worth a giggle, too. Scroll down.

                              (You won't like this one either, Kaonohi.)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Government Shutdown 2013

                                If we could decide who is truly to blame for the shutdown, would it matter? I don't think so. To the participants in this game, it's all about power and money, and who has it and who doesn't. Who will control Congress after the 2014 midterm elections? Who will win?

                                Being a Democrat, I'm very well pleased with how it's going. Unless the Democrats do something really stupid, like compromise, they'll win. It's not hard to understand why Republicans are so desperate to stop Obamacare -- it will have the consequence that Democrats get a new big electoral constituency. Look at what happens now, when a Republican who is a little stupider than the rest comes out against Social Security or Medicare.

                                One reason it's going so well is the flood of people trying to sign up on the new exchanges. It's becoming increasingly obvious that the Republican attempt to stop Obamacare has failed, and the longer the shutdown continues, the sillier the Republicans look. Because quite aside from principle and who we should blame, nobody admires incompetence, and nobody loves losers.
                                Greg

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