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Thread: Government Shutdown 2013

  1. #26

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    When poor people get sick they go to emergency rooms. Emergency rooms are the most expensive form of care. If they can't pay their bills either the tax payers (you) pick it up or if an insurance company does and your rates go up. Sane medical care means you get to see a doctor and get early care when things are easier (and cheaper) to cure or treat. Communism. Hmm. Well it works fine in Canada and England and Germany and Japan and France and all kinds of other places. When people get sick in America if their insurance company drops them they head to Canada or Mexico. Mexico! You hit a lifetime limit on your insurance, voila, you are on your own. You are dead. Its a great system. For the insurance companies. It is astoundingly inefficient.

    As to America collapsing. Yes. Nothing lasts forever. The teapot districts are protected from competition by gerrymandering, they are safe virtually forever. Combine that with nut cases willing to obliterate the functions of government and yes you do have collapse. Too bad. It had a lot going for it. If only it could have reformed, avoided crucial mistakes like filibustering and gerrymandering and broadcast deregulation and Citizens United and Bush v. Gore. Too late now. I will not be alive when the kukae really hits the fan. It won't be pretty. I guess Hawai'i will finally get to be independent until Russia or China or Japan or somebody else decides to make a move. I just think of all those thousands of nukes sitting around inadequately maintained and guarded. Its a shame really. And there's not a damn thing we can do to stop it from circling down the toilet bowl of history. Thats a great phrase.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    When poor people get sick they go to emergency rooms. Emergency rooms are the most expensive form of care. If they can't pay their bills either the tax payers (you) pick it up or if an insurance company does and your rates go up. Sane medical care means you get to see a doctor and get early care when things are easier (and cheaper) to cure or treat.
    That's another reason why some have such a hard time understanding liberals. The more liberal you are the more truly conservative you are, because we want to help people stay away from higher priced illnesses and care costs by getting them the care they need to prevent it in the first place instead of it costing at least 10 times more when it's bad, and often too late.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
    The more liberal you are the more truly conservative you are,
    This is the most perceptive and sensible thing you have said in ages. I agree.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

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  4. #29
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Everything the Republicans Need To Know My Dog Learned in Obedience School

    Just love that Helen! The previous blog entries are worth a giggle, too. Scroll down.

    (You won't like this one either, Kaonohi.)

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    If we could decide who is truly to blame for the shutdown, would it matter? I don't think so. To the participants in this game, it's all about power and money, and who has it and who doesn't. Who will control Congress after the 2014 midterm elections? Who will win?

    Being a Democrat, I'm very well pleased with how it's going. Unless the Democrats do something really stupid, like compromise, they'll win. It's not hard to understand why Republicans are so desperate to stop Obamacare -- it will have the consequence that Democrats get a new big electoral constituency. Look at what happens now, when a Republican who is a little stupider than the rest comes out against Social Security or Medicare.

    One reason it's going so well is the flood of people trying to sign up on the new exchanges. It's becoming increasingly obvious that the Republican attempt to stop Obamacare has failed, and the longer the shutdown continues, the sillier the Republicans look. Because quite aside from principle and who we should blame, nobody admires incompetence, and nobody loves losers.
    Greg

  6. #31

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Sen. King, New York Republican, lit into Ted Cruz big time, essentially called him a fraud. I get the idea Republicans would love to jump from this ship, if given a face saving out I think they'd take it gladly.

    In '96 I did some phone bank calling for the local Democratic Party, our target was Republican women. Almost all of them were so furious at the Republican Party for its impeachment nonsense and just general nonsense that they had no intention of voting Republican, in some cases, ever again. People do like substance. They understand it, they understand the difference between substance and fluff. Too many Republicans rely on Fox and talk radio to form their opinions. They need to start appreciating substance; reality, again and knock off empty rhetoric and empty show. There was nothing wrong with Eisenhower. He was human and like any human made some mistakes, but he was no nut case, no ideologue. Unlike the Koch Bros, funders & creators of the Tea potty ( ha ha ), of John Birch Society roots, believers that Eisenhower was a conscious agent of Communism. That is nuts, pure nuts. Almost everybody understands that. They much more value having a functioning government than making some kind of empty gesture, making some weird point. Its too bad the Citizens United case will make it possible for the Koch boys, each worth about $20 billion, to flood the airwaves with enough nonsense to get tea party people elected to congress where they can continue doing their damage. If I were Obama I would have the Justice Department see if there's any excuse at all to arrest the Koch boys, seize their assets. The country has a right to continue to exist. A duty. The oath is to fight all enemies foreign AND domestic. To me, the tea potty qualifies as a domestic enemy. It isn't "free speech", its subversion, deliberately torpedoing the legitimate necessary functions of government and if they cause default the cost could be astronomical. Strong coffee this morning...
    Last edited by Kalalau; October 5th, 2013 at 09:25 AM.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.) had some choice words for Republicans on Thursday, hurling an expletive to describe the government shutdown stalemate.
    In an interview with Slate, McDermott said the GOP "can't figure out how to admit" that they've lost the battle on Obamacare.
    "Why would House Democrats give away what the Supreme Court and the 2012 electorate didn’t?,...........So we sit here until they figure out they f*ck*n’ lost.”



    Amen brother, amen.


    The good news in all of this is that the Republicans have hurt their brand for years to come. Boner will go down in history, but not in a good way. He put himself ahead of his country. Traitor.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  8. #33
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    Question Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    Insurance takes from those who are more fortunate (premiums) and gives to those who are less fortunate (insurance benefits). Are you against all insurance because it's "communist"? Maybe you're just making a joke.
    Shared liability by choice is a bit different than forced leveling by fiat.

    Or don't you get the difference?
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  9. #34
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    Wink Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Everything the Republicans Need To Know My Dog Learned in Obedience School

    Just love that Helen! The previous blog entries are worth a giggle, too. Scroll down.

    (You won't like this one either, Kaonohi.)
    Good guess, but I'm against both parties; I'm a libertarian. Generally I always take the opposite side because everyone is following the PC line. I dumped PCs, now I'm a MAC.

    Like Margaret and Helen said:
    "Just once I would like to see a politician with an a$$ too small to fit his own head."
    I think they mean all politicians.... If so, I agree.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  10. #35
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    Exclamation Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    If we could decide who is truly to blame for the shutdown, would it matter? I don't think so. To the participants in this game, it's all about power and money, and who has it and who doesn't. Who will control Congress after the 2014 midterm elections? Who will win?
    ...
    Because quite aside from principle and who we should blame, nobody admires incompetence, and nobody loves losers.
    If there were not two opposing sides, there would be no argument. It takes two.

    Maybe Obama could launch some missiles at Ratpublicans in a targeted, limited strike, if Putin will let him.

    Ratpublicans, Dumbocrats, they're all alike to me.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  11. #36
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    Talking Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    Oh I can just hear the Republicans blaming Obama & the Democrats for it. So predictable.
    Exactly. Washington is just one big blame fest. BOTH sides will blame the other. It's like 3rd-grade level government.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  12. #37

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    I watched a little Fox, their take is that 87 % of the gvt is working and the shut down is no big deal. Minimizing the problem and, who knows, maybe lying, too. That would sure be a big surprise. Hegel has brought back 400,000 civilian Pentagon workers under a provision for paying the military. Its an interesting take, like I didn't dent your bumper that badly and the crunched fender will buff right out and your sore neck will probably go away in a few weeks, nothing really to worry about so don't bother calling the cops. An exercise in that favorite concept, accountability.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    I watched a little Fox, their take is that 87 % of the gvt is working and the shut down is no big deal. Minimizing the problem and, who knows, maybe lying, too.
    Faux Gnus? Shirley you jest!

    Its an interesting take, like I didn't dent your bumper that badly
    Yeah, like the people at Faux Gnus are still getting paid during the sutdown........by the Krock Bros.

    What those pundits at Faux Gnus are paid to ignore is the damage this shutdown is causing to the US status in world affairs.

    Time to put redistricting into the hands of non-partisan panels and eliminate this Republican madness.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  14. #39

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Obama really overstepped his bounds with the anti terrorist raids in Libya and Somalia. The government is shut down. Shut down is supposed to mean shut down! He clearly violated the intent of Congress and it is especially heinous considering it was only done to deflect attention from the paramount issue of our age, criticizing his birth certificate some more again.

  15. #40

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013: The Shutdown in 10 Sentences

    (from Kevin Drum, Mother Jones magazine)

    At its core, the dispute over the budget and the debt ceiling isn't complicated at all. But it is full of misconceptions and urban myths. Here are the 10 facts worth remembering past all the obfuscation:


    1. Democrats have already agreed to fund the government at Republican levels.

    2. Despite what you might have heard, there have only been two serious government shutdowns in recent history, and both were the result of Republican ultimatums.

    3. Democrats in the Senate have been begging the House to negotiate over the budget for the past six months, but Republicans have refused.

    4. That's because Republicans wanted to wait until they had either a government shutdown or a debt ceiling breach as leverage, something they've been very clear about all along.

    5. Republicans keep talking about compromise, but they've offered nothing in return for agreeing to their demands—except to keep the government intact if they get their way.

    6. The public is very strongly opposed to using a government shutdown to stop Obamacare.

    7. Contrary to Republican claims, the deficit is not increasing—it peaked in 2009 and has been dropping ever since, declining by $200 billion last year with another $450 billion drop projected this year.

    8. A long government shutdown is likely to seriously hurt economic growth, with a monthlong shutdown projected to slash GDP in the fourth quarter by 1 percentage point and reduce employment by over a million jobs.

    9. No, Democrats have not used debt ceiling hostage taking in the past to force presidents to accept their political agenda.

    10. This whole dispute is about the Republican Party fighting to make sure the working poor don't have access to affordable health care.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013: The Shutdown in 10 Sentences

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    (from Kevin Drum, Mother Jones magazine)
    ...
    10. This whole dispute is about the Republican Party fighting to make sure the working poor don't have access to affordable health care.
    This is going a bit too far. Why think Republicans want to deny the working poor the opportunity to buy health care? Why think Republicans are even aware that there are working poor? In the Republican mind (to the extent it exists), the poor are all leaches, out only to get Republicans' hard earned and richly deserved money.
    Greg

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013: The Shutdown in 10 Sentences

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    Why think Republicans want to deny the working poor the opportunity to buy health care?
    Because they incorrectly think that some people are getting something for nothing. Because they incorrectly think they are the only ones who deserve socialized payments (Social Security and Medicare). Because they incorrectly think it is a "dog eat dog" world and only the strongest should survive. Because they are self centered and unchristian. I am generalizing but it applies to the majority.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  18. #43

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    I think their real opposition is because they are afraid people will like it and Obama & Democrats will get credit for it. Its not that different from their strategy of opposing everything Obama has tried to do to help the economy, they don't want him to get 'credit'. This is playground logic. If they are worried about 'credit' their best strategy is to support Obamacare and offer constructive advice to make it better. The idea of hurting the country and hurting people just to deny 'credit' to a president of another party is, well, playground.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013: The Shutdown in 10 Sentences

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    ... the poor are all leaches, ...
    "Leeches", I meant.
    Greg

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    Lightbulb Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    It's funny to me that the Tea Baggers
    Here we go with the name-calling, again. You can always count on matapule to play that card when he feels threatened.

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    And where were you when Reagan, Bush I and Bush II raised the debt ceiling numerous times?
    I was in elementary school, but regardless, who cares whether Reagan, Bush, Clinton or Obama is president when they Congress does it? It’s wrong whatever your political affiliation is. It’s wrong to keep charging a trillion-dollar credit card, period! Is everything partisan to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    You haven't been paying attention. The money is coming from savings by streamlining the health care system that was enacted three years ago.
    Completely absurd assessment as usual there matapule, but I highly doubt it. Much more likely the money came from the billion$$$ we saved through the sequester. Too bad we continue to negate it by racking up more "stimulus" spending.


    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    This is the first step toward a "single payer" health care system in the US which will take a lot of the exorbitant profits out of the health care insurance industry.
    Hahahaha! Really?! Exactly how is the Affordable Care Act the “first step” towards a single-payer system? If Congress had included a single-payer system in the Obamacare bill, it wouldn’t be such a disaster!

    As it stands now, Obamacare will bankrupt all medical insurance companies well before a single-payer system is put in place. At that point, the “single-payer system” will be the ONLY system, and therefore, they can charge whatever price they want for premiums. You need look no further than the explicit action taken by President Obama on July 2. Barry used an executive order (wow, he does that a lot, doesn’t he? Kind of like a totalitarian dictator) to delay the employer mandate provision which as you so ignorantly deny, prevents big business from being penalized for noncompliance with Obamacare in 2014. What a gift! Too bad Barry failed to give small businesses a break.

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  21. #46
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    Here we go with the name-calling, again.
    That's what TeaBaggers call themselves.

    I was in elementary school, but regardless, who cares whether Reagan, Bush, Clinton or Obama is president when they Congress does it?
    You were in elementary school when Bush II was President? Okay, that explains a lot. Regardless, you did not speak up then when Bush II was President. Everything is partisan to you.

    It’s wrong to keep charging a trillion-dollar credit card, period
    I agree, that is why we need a Federal tax increase to pay for Bush II's war in Iraq. I have been critical of the Dumbocrats here on HT for not insisting on a tax increase as part of the Federal budget. Federal taxes have never been lower than since the 1950's.

    but I highly doubt it.
    What, no facts to back up your OPINION? You keep making these outrageous, "drive by opinions" on HT and when you are proven wrong, you hunker down someplace in hiding.

    Much more likely the money came from the billion$$$ we saved through the sequester. Too bad we continue to negate it by racking up more "stimulus" spending.
    Actually the Federal debt is decreasing, but the sequester is only part of the reason. Obama has actually cut waste from the budget separate from the sequester.


    If Congress had included a single-payer system in the Obamacare bill, it wouldn’t be such a disaster!
    Because Boner and the Republican House opposed a single payer system which is what the Dumbocrats wanted. Barry did compromise. Where were you then? Oh, that's right in grammar school!

    As it stands now, Obamacare will bankrupt all medical insurance companies well before a single-payer system is put in place. At that point, the “single-payer system” will be the ONLY system, and therefore, they can charge whatever price they want for premiums. You need look no further than the explicit action taken by President Obama on July 2. Barry used an executive order (wow, he does that a lot, doesn’t he? Kind of like a totalitarian dictator) to delay the employer mandate provision which as you so ignorantly deny, prevents big business from being penalized for noncompliance with Obamacare in 2014.
    Exemptions for big business was a compromise that Boner and the Republicans in Congress demanded at the time. You are right IT IS Barry's fault for compromising with the TeaBaggers on anything.

    Why not let the ACA proceed as designed and then when it bankrupts all the insurance companies, you can say "I told you so!"?

    Obama has signed fewer Executive Orders than Bush II did but I guess he was not a "black totalitarian dictator". But how could you know that since you were in grammar school at the time and never learned how to go back and research history! Doesn't say much for the Hawaiian grammar school system. Now you need to be schooled by your elders.
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    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  22. #47

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Stevie let loose on republicans as soon as he got their full attention just 3 songs into the set, forcefully calling them out with "republicans, knock off the crap!" and then integrating the phrase into the song's refrain. He got some applause from the tonies but you know there had to be some frowns that refused to turn upside down the rest of the nite. It was really fun.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Hawai'i is one of the ten States most effected by the Federal government shutdown. Congratulations.........I guess. Hawai'i should be more "blue" than ever in the future.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  24. #49

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    http://screen.yahoo.com/salmonella-o...40267-cbs.html

    Thanks for keeping our food safe.

  25. #50

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    I've long believed that there is hope for the thinking members of the Republican Party; they are finally grasping the damage being done to their party by the Tea Party faction, according to this Associated Press story out of Des Moines, Iowa (excerpted).
    From county chairmen to national party luminaries, veteran Republicans across the country are accusing tea party lawmakers of staining the GOP with their refusal to bend in the budget impasse in Washington.

    The Republican establishment also is signaling a willingness to strike back at the tea party in next fall's elections.

    "It's time for someone to act like a grown-up in this process," former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu argues, faulting Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and tea party Republicans in the House as much as President Barack Obama for taking an uncompromising stance.

    Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour is just as pointed, saying this about the tea party-fueled refusal to support spending measures that include money for Obama's health care law: "It never had a chance."

    The anger emanating from Republicans like Sununu and Barbour comes just three years after the GOP embraced the insurgent political group and rode its wave of new energy to return to power in the House.

    Now, they're lashing out with polls showing Republicans bearing most of the blame for the federal shutdown, which entered its 11th day Friday. In some places, they're laying the groundwork to take action against the tea party in the 2014 congressional elections.

    Iowa Republicans are recruiting a pro-business Republican to challenge six-term conservative Rep. Steve King, a leader in the push to defund the health care law. Disgruntled Republicans are further ahead in Michigan, where second-term, tea party-backed Rep. Justin Amash is facing a Republican primary challenger who is more in line with — and being encouraged by — the party establishment. And business interest groups, long aligned with the Republican Party, also are threatening to recruit and fund strong challengers to tea party House members.

    ---------

    An Associated Press-GfK poll released Wednesday showed why these party loyalists are so concerned: More Republicans told pollsters that the GOP is mishandling the shutdown than is handling it well. And among those who say it's being poorly handled, twice as many Republicans say the party is not doing enough to negotiate with Obama than those who say the party is doing too much.

    Party leaders interviewed said the tea party's demands to defund the health care law — and the House leadership's willingness to follow suit — were distracting from what they said is the GOP's best strategy to recover from its 2012 losses: a focus on reducing long-term spending. They said defunding the health care law would not achieve that goal because the money was already flowing to the law.

    "At the end of the day, you're fighting legislation that's already passed," said former South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson, describing the fight to defund the health care law as a lost cause.
    Entire story:http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/...GOP-Tea-Party/

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