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Thread: Government Shutdown 2013

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Government Shutdown 2013

    Frustration mounts over federal government shutdown
    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...nment-shutdown

    Government shutdown forces closure of Hawaii Volcanoes National Park
    http://www.khon2.com/2013/10/01/gove...national-park/

    USS Arizona Memorial closed during shutdown, other historic sites remain open
    http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/USS-...p/-/index.html

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
    Frustration mounts over federal government shutdown
    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...nment-shutdown

    Government shutdown forces closure of Hawaii Volcanoes National Park
    http://www.khon2.com/2013/10/01/gove...national-park/

    USS Arizona Memorial closed during shutdown, other historic sites remain open
    http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/USS-...p/-/index.html

    And which political party can you thank for the economic damage being caused to Hawaii as they play the petulant fool's game?
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Unhappy Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Our government 'servants' have been replaced with government 'leaders.' Now our 'leaders' are being replaced by our 'rulers.'

    It's a sad thing to see a DREAM die.

    Those meant to serve us are now using us.

    Impeach them all - oops, Homeland Security Is knocking, be right back (I hope).
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Angry Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Shut down the Federal Government?

    And we thought Bush II was dumb! I am appalled at the arrogance of our representatives and of our "Chief of State" (aka POTUS).

    My newest moniker for our fearful leader: Odumba.

    Yes, I'm angry. I'll bet THEY don't go without....
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by matapule View Post
    And which political party can you thank for the economic damage being caused to Hawaii as they play the petulant fool's game?
    That should be obvious. The House Republicans, or at least the Tea Party faction, are having a tantrum. To the argument that voters decided on Obamacare, they say: Democracy, Shemocracy! We don't like it, and that's what counts.

    It's hard for me to understand why, in general, the liberal media, insist on blaming "Washington", or "Congress", for the current impasse. It not either of those. It's the damn House Republicans. John Boehner is taking advantage of some archaic features of our government to subvert a democratic resolution of the budget crisis. It's evident that a vote in the House on a "clean CR" would pass it, even though the Republicans are in the majority there, and the government would be opened again. But Boehner can block that vote from happening, and so that's what he's doing.

    Why would he do that? Everybody knows that, too. He does not favor holding the nation hostage to the enemies of Obamacare (he's said so), but to remain Speaker of the House, he needs the Tea Party vote. So that's what it's come down to. The government stays shut down, or Boehner loses the Speakership.

    How is this Obama's fault? How is it Congress's fault? How is it Washington's fault? I get so sick of hearing this.
    Greg

  6. #6

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
    Frustration mounts over federal government shutdown
    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...nment-shutdown
    Government shutdown forces closure of Hawaii Volcanoes National Park
    http://www.khon2.com/2013/10/01/gove...national-park/
    USS Arizona Memorial closed during shutdown, other historic sites remain open
    http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/USS-...p/-/index.html
    It's way worse than State parks closing, PEOPLE ARE DYING and National security is threatened because conjobs are petty partisan Obama/lib haters and can't stand not getting their way all the time. Especially when they keep losing elections and decisions due to relying on little else but public ignorance and hate, it's got to be frustrating.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    The government stays shut down, or Boehner loses the Speakership.

    How is this Obama's fault?
    Well, it is a pretty cush job. I mean, look at the tan on that man, you don't get a fake brown like that for free!

    Because whack-o's say so.

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    It's hard for me to understand why, in general, the liberal media, insist on blaming "Washington", or "Congress", for the current impasse. It not either of those. It's the damn House Republicans.
    Exactly!

    It's evident that a vote in the House on a "clean CR" would pass it, even though the Republicans are in the majority there, and the government would be opened again. But Boehner can block that vote from happening, and so that's what he's doing.

    Why would he do that? Everybody knows that, too. He does not favor holding the nation hostage to the enemies of Obamacare (he's said so), but to remain Speaker of the House, he needs the Tea Party vote. So that's what it's come down to. The government stays shut down, or Boehner loses the Speakership.
    Boner has put his personal interests ahead of the interests of the nation. He should be put on trial for treason.

    The House Republicans are ALL at fault for not standing up to a group of 80 Teathuglican anarchists. If they are not part of the solution, they ARE the problem.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  8. #8

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    We're all in this together as the politicians are not getting paid.
    Wait, what?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Just wait til the US defaults; the citadel of capitalism repudiating capitalism. Maybe it will just be a minor little glitch but anything could happen. Its so insane, so reckless. I feel like a passenger on a jet and the pilots have gone stark raving bonkers.

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    Lightbulb Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    Just wait til the US defaults; the citadel of capitalism repudiating capitalism. Maybe it will just be a minor little glitch but anything could happen. Its so insane, so reckless. I feel like a passenger on a jet and the pilots have gone stark raving bonkers.
    Wow, I actually agree with Kalalau on something. Okay, we’ve agreed in the past, but it is a rare occasion.

    It’s funny to me that the libs on this board cannot see the connection between what the House GOP is doing and the budget impasse. Basically, they’re trying to get Dems to acknowledge for the first time in their life that the buck has to stop somewhere. Where are the feds getting all of this money for these “health connectors”? Why are Medicare co-pays going up for every drug, doctor visit, hospital visit and monthly premiums going up for every “HMSA Akamai Advantage” member in 2014? Oh, but there’s no connection between those two either, right?

    Most people who support Obamacare would struggle mightily to name three things the bill accomplishes. In fact they would shake their fist at you angrily if you told them that the Affordable Care Act actually imposes a monetary fine on anyone who fails to enroll in a medical insurance plan. Or that fine increases every year. Or if you own a small business it will cost you a hell of a lot more to cover your full-timers. Oh, but big business won’t be penalized the same way. Lucky you live in the USA?

    Shutting down the federal government provides at least some savings for a country that is drowning in debt. But not nearly enough to avoid a default if Congress does not raise the debt ceiling by October 17th. So relax. Congress and Barry will hash this out by then. Because no Congress or U.S. President has ever allowed the country to default in American history. They’re not about to start now. And they’ll have to pass a budget before they can take action on that.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    It’s funny to me that the libs on this board cannot see the connection between what the House GOP is doing and the budget impasse.
    It's funny to me that the Tea Baggers, Libertarians, and Republicans can't see the connection to their stated agenda that their only agenda is to repudiate everything that the President does. But I guess that's what TuNnL vision does to you!

    Basically, they’re trying to get Dems to acknowledge for the first time in their life that the buck has to stop somewhere.
    Basically they are saying that they want to repudiate the law of the land. They are saying that they want a minority to dictate to the majority.

    And where were you when Reagan, Bush I and Bush II raised the debt ceiling numerous times? Oh, that's right, Faux Gnus didn't have a problem with that so why should you.

    Where are the feds getting all of this money for these “health connectors”?
    You haven't been paying attention. The money is coming from savings by streamlining the health care system that was enacted three years ago.

    We also need an increase in taxes. Federal taxes have never been lower since the early 50's. Raise taxes and the deficit disappears, like it did under Clinton.

    Why are Medicare co-pays going up for every drug, doctor visit, hospital visit and monthly premiums going up for every “HMSA Akamai Advantage” member in 2014? Oh, but there’s no connection between those two either, right?
    I just got my policy for my 2014 Medicare Senior Advantage program two days ago. Premiums remain the same, doctor visits remain the same, lab work goes up from $30 per visit to $40 per visit (I have blood work done twice a year so I will be paying a total of $20 more a year.......how will I ever survive? the sky is falling! the lab technicians don't deserve a pay increase, their salary should be cut), hospitalization daily cost went down by about 10% (dang, that Barry actually did streamline the system). You are spreading misinformation. You have been watching too much Faux Gnus.

    Most people who support Obamacare would struggle mightily to name three things the bill accomplishes.
    I love it when things are made so easy for me!
    1. Those who currently have no health insurance will now be able to get affordable coverage
    2. "Pre-existing conditions" will now be eliminated as a reason to deny anyone coverage.
    3. This is the first step toward a "single payer" health care system in the US which will take a lot of the exorbitant profits out of the health care insurance industry.

    (Need I continue?)

    In fact they would shake their fist at you angrily if you told them that the Affordable Care Act actually imposes a monetary fine on anyone who fails to enroll in a medical insurance plan. Or that fine increases every year.
    That is all true. The alternative is to have uninsured people get their health care through the more expensive welfare system.........or do you prefer to see sick people dying beside the roadway?

    Or if you own a small business it will cost you a hell of a lot more to cover your full-timers.
    In some States costs will go up and in some States costs will go down. You are only telling half the story, but that is the M.O. for Faux Gnus.

    Oh, but big business won’t be penalized the same way.
    No, they wont be penalized in the same way, they will be penalized in a different way. Get your information from somewhere other than Faux Gnus!

    Shutting down the federal government provides at least some savings for a country that is drowning in debt.
    Actually, shutting down the government INCREASES the debt by eliminating sources of income or defers increased expenses.

    But not nearly enough to avoid a default if Congress does not raise the debt ceiling by October 17th. So relax. Congress and Barry will hash this out by then. Because no Congress or U.S. President has ever allowed the country to default in American history. They’re not about to start now. And they’ll have to pass a budget before they can take action on that.
    The Teathuglicans are anarchists. They are capable of doing anything. Some of them say they want another Revolution.....how quaint!
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    I feel like a passenger on a jet and the pilots have gone stark raving bonkers.
    Lopeti, let me put a little different spin on your analogy.

    400 people get on a plane in San Francisco with a ticket for Honolulu they purchased a year ago. As the plane leaves the ground (the wheels aren't even up yet) 80 terrorists rush the flight cabin and say that they don't want to go to Honolulu, they want to go to Bakersfield! The captain of the plane says he won't negotiate with terrorists. The terrorists say they will set off a bomb and bring the plane down if they aren't taken to the Buck Owens museum in Bakersfield immediately. The captain says that if they put the bomb down and take their seats, he will talk to them about their demands AFTER they arrive in Honolulu. The terrorists say no, they know better than the rest of the passengers on the plane and we're all going to Bakersfield, ALOHA shirts and all. The captain of the plane says that the last time I negotiated with you, once we got to Bakersfield, you demanded that all the passengers had to go to the Buck Owens museum and eat poi. He said the answer is no, I will not negotiate. The terrorists set off the bomb and the plane goes down in flames. Faux Gnus reports the captain of the plane, a man from Kenya, flies jet with 400 passengers aboard into the ground and 80 patriots benevolently put other passengers out of misery before plane hits ground.

    Moral of story: Better kine give stink eye to bully kine than watch another episode of Tea Party Hee-Haw.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    Where are the feds getting all of this money for these “health connectors”?
    You tell us. Government employment has decreased, the budget deficit has decreased, in the current budget negotiations, the Democrats have accepted the lower figure that was proposed by the Republicans.
    Why are Medicare co-pays going up for every drug, doctor visit, hospital visit and monthly premiums going up for every “HMSA Akamai Advantage” member in 2014? Oh, but there’s no connection between those two either, right?
    It's possible that higher premiums are connected with Obamacare, but I see no connection with prices for drugs or doctor visits. Medical costs have been rising faster than the general inflation rate.
    Most people who support Obamacare would struggle mightily to name three things the bill accomplishes. In fact they would shake their fist at you angrily if you told them that the Affordable Care Act actually imposes a monetary fine on anyone who fails to enroll in a medical insurance plan. Or that fine increases every year.
    If everybody is to get health insurance, everyone has to pay premiums, so that healthy people will pay for sick people. That's just how it works. If you're one of the healthy ones, well, sorry about that.
    Greg

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    Medical costs have been rising faster than the general inflation rate.
    Here you go:

    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

  15. #15

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    Shutting down the federal government provides at least some savings for a country that is drowning in debt.
    My choice for the most moronic statement outside of the DC partisan pukes pulling this shit, at least we know who's in favor of having killed this country.

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    I found the following to be an interesting read. It's just one person's take on the situation. I'll let you HTers pick it apart as you see fit.

    "People:

    Before you begin your rant about how terrible everyone in Washington is, make sure you get the facts straight.

    This is NOT about the President, who is asking Congress to pay for expenses they've already approved, including the Affordable Care Act, which was approved by two houses of Congress, signed into law, upheld by the Supreme Court, and, when made into a central issue of the 2012 election, was not overturned by the voters.

    This is NOT about the refusal of Democrats to compromise. Obamacare IS the compromise. It was the Republican counterproposal to the nationalized health care plan from the Clinton administration. That's why Mitt Romney pushed it through in Massachusetts (yes, the economist who wrote the Massachusetts plan said Romneycare is the same as Obamacare). It's a mandate for people to buy PRIVATE health insurance. Nothing could be more Republican. Many Democrats hate/d the Affordable Care Act because it didn't nationalize health care, but they . . . compromised . . . so 40 million more Americans, including people with pre-existing illnesses, could get health care. There's been no Republican counter-proposal because OBAMACARE IS THEIR PLAN. Obama adopted it because he thought they'd support their own plan. How crazy was that?

    This is NOT about "Congress." The Senate -- which has brought the House resolution to the floor multiple times, and amended and approved the amended bill by majority vote -- has approved a "clean" funding resolution, but the Speaker of the House WILL NOT ALLOW THAT RESOLUTION TO COME TO THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE FOR A VOTE. Were it to be voted on in the House, there's a reasonable probability it would pass with support of Democratic members and a significant number of moderate Republicans.

    Why won't the President and the Senate accept the Republican proposal to delay a year? Because it's already been delayed. The Republicans are trying to stall until after the 2014 elections, hoping to win both House and Senate so they can overturn the law. They also are terrified that once people sign up and get healthcare and like it, they'll think -- as they did with Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security -- that it's a pretty good thing. THAT, Senator Cruz, is the real message of "Green Eggs and Ham," which you completely misunderstood.

    This IS about a small group of about 30 legislative terrorists who would rather blow up the government than permit legislation they don't like, even when approved by majority vote, to be enacted. It's also about a Speaker of the House who will not permit a bill to come to the floor for a vote unless the terrorists approve.

    This is really about whether we believe in democracy -- in majority rule -- or not. You don't get to wreck the country every time you don't get your way.

    If all the Border Patrol officers -- who as of this morning are working without pay -- would go home, I wonder how long it would take the Senators from Texas to get the message?"

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    Angry Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    How is this Obama's fault?
    1. He could negotiate with the Ratpublicans.

    2. He could issue an "Executive order," (he's done quite a few of those already).

    3. He could stop acting like a petulant child who won't eat his broccoli.

    4. He could realize "My way or the highway" solves nothing.

    Our representatives represent US. Many people are against "Obamacare" (what an arrogant man! Name a program after yourself), and our reps are protecting our interests.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Question Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
    If everybody is to get health insurance, everyone has to pay premiums, so that healthy people will pay for sick people. That's just how it works. If you're one of the healthy ones, well, sorry about that.
    Gee, that sounds like... Communism!

    MARX: "From those who have, to those that lack." (inexact, but same meaning)

    Wonderful. We have a communist president. Why did we take down the USSR? We should have just joined them.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Talking Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    This is really about whether we believe in democracy -- in majority rule -- or not. You don't get to wreck the country every time you don't get your way.
    Someone just doesn't get it.

    Democracy is not and never has been about "majority rule."

    democracy
    : a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting
    : an organization or situation in which everyone is treated equally and has equal rights
    : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
    : the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority

    NOT "majority rule," the rule of equality of the people.

    Love it or leave it.
    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
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    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    I get it. We let the people who lost the election big time and who lost in the legislative process then lost in the courts go ahead and abolish a law they didn't like. Yes, we must be protected from majority rule. Let the minority rule. The petulant spoiled brat minority, let them decide everything. Who even needs elections. Who needs a congress. Just let Ted Cruz (Canadian) decide everything for us. Lets all cheer: Down With The Constitution! Nobody has to accept reality, go ahead and play a fifth quarter or a tenth inning if your team has lost in regulation.

    So would this absolute BS have been tried on Dec. 8, 1941? Sept. 12, 2001? Or pick any random date when the USSR existed. I think not. Somehow the absence of visible ( ! ) direct threats emboldens the petulant child like spoiled brat minority to shut down the government. And what happens if Al Qaeda happens to chose this time to strike. Oh I can just hear the Republicans blaming Obama & the Democrats for it. So predictable.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Would there have been any problem with a minority using the same tactic to block Social Security (Republicans hated the idea), Medicare (ditto), the Voting Rights Act, on and on and on. When the process plays out according to law you are supposed to accept the result. And lets not forget this whole teapot thing is a creation of the Koch Brothers, of the John Birch Society line, the same group that said Eisenhower was a conscious ( ! ) agent of the international Communist conspiracy. Rational? Is that the kind of rational mind anyone wants dictating the policies and laws of the government. Just let them decide everything, thats obviously how its playing out. Its a coup de etat, without a shot being fired. Inmates running the asylum, indeed.

    It would have been nice if this strategy had been around to keep the US out of Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Unfortunately the legislative process ran its course and people obeyed the law. Pity.

    Thinking it over, its actually a good strategy. Income tax could have been blocked. The Civil War could have been blocked. Appointments to courts, treaties, Head Start, the list of things that could have been blocked is endless. It should be used next time a Republican president wants to do anything. Anything at all.
    Last edited by Kalalau; October 4th, 2013 at 09:47 AM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    It's not even worth caring about any more, this country is a dead man stumbling and all that's left is the final face plant and the wind carrying away the remains. The sooner this country burns to a crisp and goes under the waves the better, it's been a detriment to everything on this planet for a long while now and needs to disappear. But, I gotta say, it's been fun.

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
    Let the minority rule.
    Lopeti, it just shows how dangerous these terrorist traitors are. It is fine to oppose the government on some issue of law or policy. It is quite another thing to attempt to bring down the government when they don't get their way. Never let your guard down.
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    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GregLee
    How is this Obama's fault?
    1. He could negotiate with the Ratpublicans.

    2. He could issue an "Executive order," (he's done quite a few of those already).

    3. He could stop acting like a petulant child who won't eat his broccoli.

    4. He could realize "My way or the highway" solves nothing.
    The "this" in my statement, which you misrepresent by quoting out of context, referred to the squabble among Republicans that leaves Boehner the choice between blocking a clean CR and losing his Speakership. That is obviously none of Obama's doing. Your points 1-4 are completely irrelevant to what I said.
    Greg

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    Default Re: Government Shutdown 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
    Gee, that sounds like... Communism!

    MARX: "From those who have, to those that lack." (inexact, but same meaning)

    Wonderful. We have a communist president. Why did we take down the USSR? We should have just joined them.
    Insurance takes from those who are more fortunate (premiums) and gives to those who are less fortunate (insurance benefits). Are you against all insurance because it's "communist"? Maybe you're just making a joke.
    Greg

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