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  • #16
    Re: Flying Interisland

    Originally posted by Miulang
    When I was a little kid, I used to fly interisland with my parents in Convairs, which were propeller-driven. Now it looks like we're coming full circle. If it means cheaper interisland fares, I'm all for them! But why only charters? That will only benefit the touristas on package vacations. And if it's a freight aircarrier, does that mean that the passengers will be herded aboard the planes like cargo a la Southwest Airlines?
    Yes, I used to fly with my parents on Hawaiian Airlines' old Convairs as well as other prop planes of the times. And if the price is right I too will give the new airline a try.

    According to the article I cited, the charter service is only the beginning for TransAir. They probably only have 1 passenger plane for now and will eventually ease their way slowly into the airline market. Who knows.

    As TransAir they normally fly a Shorts 360 cargo plane. I seen those planes here in Honolulu as well as on Kona on the Big Island.

    I have never flown on Southwest, but to me most airlines seem to all herd their passengers onto the aircraft like cattle.
    I'm still here. Are you?

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    • #17
      Re: Flying Interisland

      Originally posted by mel
      I have never flown on Southwest, but to me most airlines seem to all herd their passengers onto the aircraft like cattle.
      IIRC, the Southwest model is still slightly different, as their planes are boarded like buses - every man, woman, and child for him or herself. That is, there are no assigned seats like there are on conventional airlines. You just show up at the gate, get on the plane, and sit anywhere you can.

      Perhaps it seemed silly at the time to make a change like that for minor savings, but seeing as how some airlines are now charging you to eat their awful food just to cut a couple of bucks per passenger, the "quick and dirty" travel model Southwest is using seems positively progressive.

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      • #18
        Re: Flying Interisland

        Originally posted by pzarquon
        IIRC, the Southwest model is still slightly different, as their planes are boarded like buses - every man, woman, and child for him or herself. That is, there are no assigned seats like there are on conventional airlines. You just show up at the gate, get on the plane, and sit anywhere you can.
        This is kind of what the interisland carriers do now, except with our interisland carriers they have those Ali'i Club and Premier Club things for people who want to pay more. So they get to go in the plane first and get first dibs at the seats they want before the rest of us dreks pile on at the "general boarding" cattle call.

        I liked it better in the 60s and 70s where everyone was "general boarding" and there were none of these high falutin people ahead of those faithful who stood at the head of the line before the plane even shows up at the gate.

        Aloha Airlines is kind of returning to this in a small way in the fact they eliminated their first class seats on all interisland flights. Hooray for Aloha!

        So in this respect I could well live with a SouthWest Airlines policy. Good for them.

        BTW, someone had earlier asked about what would have it been like if Hawaiian and Aloha had merged. If that awful thing would have happened the combined airline would have bled more red ink due to the sudden growth, not to mention that many jobs would have been eliminated since the interisland and even mainland routes are duplicated. A merged airline would also have been bad for the consumers since a monopoly would only encourage even higher prices than what we have now.

        Of course I think an airline like SouthWest or JetBlue would have tried to enter the local market should that merger have gone through.

        It is a good thing for consumers that we now have an independent 3rd airline, though unlike its predecessors Mid Pacific Airlines and Mahalo, Island Air is not playing the fare game by being the price slasher airline. That I am still waiting for.


        Perhaps it seemed silly at the time to make a change like that for minor savings, but seeing as how some airlines are now charging you to eat their awful food just to cut a couple of bucks per passenger, the "quick and dirty" travel model Southwest is using seems positively progressive.
        I'll agree. Most air travelers are very price sensitive. That is why when a major airline announces a $5 to $10 fare hike, if the other majors don't go along, that airline usually backs down and continues to absorb the losses.

        Tough being in the airline business.
        I'm still here. Are you?

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        • #19
          Re: Flying Interisland

          Originally posted by pzarquon
          IIRC, the Southwest model is still slightly different, as their planes are boarded like buses - every man, woman, and child for him or herself. That is, there are no assigned seats like there are on conventional airlines. You just show up at the gate, get on the plane, and sit anywhere you can.

          Perhaps it seemed silly at the time to make a change like that for minor savings, but seeing as how some airlines are now charging you to eat their awful food just to cut a couple of bucks per passenger, the "quick and dirty" travel model Southwest is using seems positively progressive.
          Yup. While most of the other carriers are crying red tears, there are only 2 more or less national scheduled carriers that are in the black: Southwest and Jet Blue. One of the ways they cut their costs is to only allow passengers to book flights through them (either via the Internet or on the phone); you can't book a Southwest or Jet Blue flight through a travel agent or through Cheaptickets or any of those alternative booking sites. Both airlines also are nonunion and yet the employees are pretty content. If you have cable TV, check the listings to see if your area gets "Airplane" (the A&E channel). They are filming episodes in LAX, Chicago and some other SWA hubs. It's a hoot sometimes to watch people willingly look like fools for the series! Guess they figure this is their only way to get their 15 minutes of fame, even though their neighbors are probably thinking, "I knew that person was a little odd, but I never could put my finger on why..."

          Did you hear that United wants to start charging $15 to people who want to cash in their mileage for trips if they use the phone to do that? No charge if you use their website. They claim it is a "cost cutting" measure. Wonder if any of the other carriers will start doing the same? Sites like Cheaptickets also have started charging if you want "paper" tickets; no charge--yet--for etickets.

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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          • #20
            Re: Flying Interisland

            I've seen several episodes of Airline on A&E. They have it here in Honolulu on Oceanic cable. The entire series until recently focused on the everyday things at various SouthWest Airlines terminals. I recently saw a couple of episodes that were focused on a European discount airline whose name escapes me right now. In one of those episodes they showed that airline's CEO going to the Boeing plant in Washington state to pick up a brand new Boeing 737 jet.

            As for the extra fees tacked on to paper tickets, they are doing it here for the 2 major interisland carriers as well (I think) as for Island Air and Pacific Wings. The airlines want everyone to buy their tickets from them, via their websites and by credit cards only.

            Aloha's $58 coupon special charges a $3 fee per book if you buy the coupons through the regular mail using their forms printed on the newspaper ads. If you want your coupon book right away there is a $22 fee for FedExing, otherwise snail mail will get them to you in about 3 weeks.

            I know some local travel agents who have either gone out of business or concentrate only on tours now because of how tickets are sold.

            The consumers that suffer the most are the elderly and others who don't have ready computer access. They usually have to rely on friends or relatives or succumb to the $25 fee if they buy paper tickets through the phone or one of the few remaining airline ticket offices located in Honolulu and elsewhere.

            The worst thing about th recent change in airline fares (besides the high prices) are the $25 change fees for interisland travel. This was something that was never implemented until the 2 major interisland airlines discontinued their coupon books in 2003. They have made travel inflexible for the budget minded.
            I'm still here. Are you?

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            • #21
              Re: Flying Interisland

              Originally posted by mel
              I recently saw a couple of episodes that were focused on a European discount airline whose name escapes me right now.
              I believe the name of that airline is RyanAir.They are the European version of Southwest.
              Check out my blog on Kona issues :
              The Kona Blog

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              • #22
                Re: Flying Interisland

                >>>This is kind of what the interisland carriers do now, except with our interisland carriers they have those Ali'i Club and Premier Club things for people who want to pay more. So they get to go in the plane first and get first dibs at the seats they want before the rest of us dreks pile on at the "general boarding" cattle call.

                >>>I liked it better in the 60s and 70s where everyone was "general boarding" and there were none of these high falutin people ahead of those faithful who stood at the head of the line before the plane even shows up at the gate.

                I fly interisland quite often (and to the West Coast a few times a year), and am one of those "high falutin (sic)" people with a Premier Club "thing." Since I fly so much, I trade in miles for the membership rather than pay cash. Anyone can get one of these cards if they pony up the cash (or miles) so I don't really see the problem. If I flew infrequently I probably wouldn't bother, it's really not that big a thing on the grand scheme.

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                • #23
                  Re: Flying Interisland

                  The latest on this topic...

                  Charter Flights Are Taking Off as Customers Tire of Airline Hassles

                  OK, so charter planes are small and propeller driven. The demand for such interisland flights are attractive to many interisland travellers who are tired of the regular airline waits, security hassles and continuing higher prices.

                  From the Star Bulletin Article today, price comparison of interisland flights:

                  >> Aloha Airlines: $279.20
                  >> Hawaiian Airlines: $222.20
                  >> Pacific Wings: $159.20
                  >> Charter plane: $200 (for full eight-seater)
                  >> Self-piloting: $60 (for full four-seater)
                  What the article fails to take into account though is that many residents have Hawaiian and Aloha Airlines frequent flyer cards (though many like me don't fly that frequently because of escalating costs) who can get round trip flights booked at a somewhat lesser price point than those posted above. As I mentioned before my last Aloha Airlines trip was $79 each way (not including fees).

                  Of course those who bought Aloha's $58 coupons have a good fare and a little more flexibility until at least June 15 of next year. The coupon offer is now expired.

                  The second headline of the day:

                  Fewer Hawaii Residents Travel Interisland

                  That is kind of obvious. High prices for interisland travel and fare restrictions (which were not reported in the article) have forced residents to cut back on neighbor island travel.

                  From the article:

                  The annual study by SMS Research and Marketing Inc. indicates that the number of Hawaii residents traveling interisland has shrunk by 22 percent since 2000.

                  However, travel to the mainland grew 19 percent in the same period, possibly a sign that local travelers are trying to squeeze more mileage out of their travel dollar in a time of rising interisland air fares.
                  The article went on to say that more tourists used to fly interisland than locals, but direct flights to neighbor island airports have decreased the demand for interisland travel. Duh? Yes, I guess so. Still residents need to travel interisland at times and it is a real hassle with higher fares, change fees and restrictions and the longer waits at airport terminals because of security. Of course both Hawaiian and Aloha now emphasize Hawaii to mainland travel more often than not over their interisland routes.

                  Hawaiian Airlines are also offering their travel club members discount fares from Maui to Portland, Maui to Seattle and HNL to LAX during the off season. From an email I received from HAL:


                  Honolulu and Los Angeles
                  Travel: Sep 1 - Dec 16, 2004

                  Days of the Week
                  Mon - Thu $122*
                  Fri - Sat $142*
                  * Taxes, fees & other restrictions apply
                  Is there a tabbing /table function or html we can use on this board?

                  Compare this to the last minute, interisland one way each trip fare of $115 and you are looking at only a $7 difference between destinations, but a distance of thousands of miles between the 2 types of trips. Ouch!

                  So in most cases, flying interisland sucks as far as your wallets go.
                  Last edited by mel; September 5, 2004, 04:16 PM.
                  I'm still here. Are you?

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                  • #24
                    Re: Flying Interisland

                    OK, so we flew from OGG to MKK last Sunday on Island Air. Total cost for 2 roundtrip tickets: $348+ change. Lots of empty seats both coming and going.

                    With a hotel/car package: the car was about $32/day ($10 less than if booked directly through Dollar---can you say rip off?)

                    We watched passengers boarding the Molokai Princess on its afternoon run from Kaukanakai Harbor to Lahaina: round trip fare: $80. Boat was full, everyone lugging everything from big coolers to huge cardboard boxes on board.

                    At Kaunakakai Airport getting ready to leave for Kahului, we sat there and watched at least 4 Paragon Air flights and another smaller commuter airline take off and land, all appeared to be full. I think I read a roundtrip fare on one of the "nonscheduled" commuter lines was about $100.

                    Security: At the Kahului commuter terminal (which is what Island Air uses): no security check whatsoever. At Hoolehua, full security check (including the bomb detecting swipe of the checked luggage) and the metal detector. I guess they trust people flying to Molokai more than they do the ones leaving Molokai! What? They think Molokai people are all revolutionaries and carrying bombs or what???

                    Anyway, I don't know how Island Air can expect to stay in business flying to either Molokai or Lanai charging the kind of fares they do unless they cater strictly to tourists who don't know about alternatives. Because I know for sure that if I was really akamai and had the time, I would look at one of the alternatives to the scheduled carriers because only humbug now to fly with the scheduled carriers!

                    Miulang
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                    • #25
                      Re: Flying Interisland

                      Looks like Island Air is capitulating little on the fares between HNL and MKK. Effective immediately, the fare (based on a round trip ticket) to either Molokai or Lanai goes down to $65 (or $130 RT) as opposed to the regular $105 OW tickets they've been selling. Wonder what they plan to do about their larcenous fares between OGG and MKK? We paid almost $90 OW/ticket last month and the planes were half empty both ways...

                      Miulang

                      Maui News story: http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=2016
                      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                      • #26
                        Re: Flying Interisland

                        I live in Molokai and have to get to Maui this afternoon. I checked Island Air-website : $165.10 for a one way ticket. Is this a joke or what ?

                        Next. I called Interisland Airways. I got a round trip ticket for $100. (one way = $60).
                        Shame on you, Island Air !
                        Last edited by marc_saenen; December 5, 2004, 10:55 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Flying Interisland

                          Originally posted by marc_saenen
                          I live in Molokai and have to get to Maui this afternoon. I checked Island Air-website : $165.10 for a one way ticket. Is this a joke or what ?

                          Next. I called Interisland Airways. I got a round trip ticket for $100. (one way = $60).
                          Shame on you, Island Air !
                          Eh Marc, anybody who is local and who chooses to fly Island Air is NUTS! Most locals who have to fly from MKK to OGG would probably use one of the charter flights because it's way cheaper. I was a tourist who flew to MKK from OGG and of course I chose to fly Island Air, but the planes were only half full coming and going and the Moloka'i Princess was full, as were most of the charter flights. I think Island Air caters to the tourists who don't know any better, which is why their fares are so ridiculous!

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Flying Interisland

                            I flew one of the last Hawaiian flights R/T to Lanai from Honolulu and I think it was $178 total. Going there is easy as it was a direct flight to Lanai. However, coming back we had to land in Molokai, then Maui and finally Honolulu. At least I could brag I was on 4 islands in one day.

                            I flew from Honolulu to the West Maui Airport in Kapalua (no hassles there whatsoever with security) and came home via Kahalui, bought them via Oahu Travel and they cost about the same.

                            OGG security lines were ridiculous last week, it took us 90 minutes to get through all the lines and guess what we missed our plane, we had to then wait for 3 hours on a stand-by flight before we finally made it home. Granted I might miss the IHOP and Krispy Kremes near OGG but that West Maui Airport is awesome and I really like flying there.

                            You HAVE to fly Island Air if you want to fly to the West Maui Airport, which is very convenient and close to Lahaina if that is where you are staying and you dont even need to rent a car if your staying in Lahaina then. A taxi ride to most hotels from West Maui Airport is about $10-15 tops. Whereas, if you fly to OGG, then you have to rent a car or get a shuttle for the 25 miles or so to Lahaina.

                            You can book flights on Island Air on either Hawaiian or Aloha's websites now I believe.

                            KalihiBoy

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                            • #29
                              Re: Flying Interisland

                              eh, kala ma`i .... dis my 1 time on dis space so go easy.....
                              but any way I remember wen da aloha 737 use to fly in to Molokai
                              back in da 70`s. I wen take one flight from HNL to MAUI but had one stop
                              on Molokai. Braddah fo see how dat bird wen huki into the Hoolehua airport
                              wuz unreaaaalllllll..... The airport stay in one mountain area wet plenty good
                              size wind. But wen da big bird wen touch down. Talk about hold on to your
                              OKOLE....
                              So okay we drop off and reload whatevas... time fo we go......
                              The bird go all the way to almost I think the plane goin fall off on cliff
                              den do one 360...turn b-4 we wen do one full choke burn rubba...
                              But some good fun wuz dem days...
                              OH WELL DOSE WUZ DEM DAYS........
                              bin dea-dunn dat.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Flying Interisland

                                Originally posted by oggboy
                                eh, kala ma`i .... dis my 1 time on dis space so go easy.....
                                but any way I remember wen da aloha 737 use to fly in to Molokai
                                back in da 70`s. I wen take one flight from HNL to MAUI but had one stop
                                on Molokai. Braddah fo see how dat bird wen huki into the Hoolehua airport
                                wuz unreaaaalllllll..... The airport stay in one mountain area wet plenty good
                                size wind. But wen da big bird wen touch down. Talk about hold on to your
                                OKOLE....
                                So okay we drop off and reload whatevas... time fo we go......
                                The bird go all the way to almost I think the plane goin fall off on cliff
                                den do one 360...turn b-4 we wen do one full choke burn rubba...
                                But some good fun wuz dem days...
                                OH WELL DOSE WUZ DEM DAYS........
                                Hui Kahului Boy! No be scaid. Nobody going bite your head off. Not so scaid now land Hoolehua because oni small kine prop jets fly ova dere. Wen holoholo ova dere las year. K'kai one nani place. Neva even notice da mountains wen we wen go land. Nice place foa kick back, though.

                                Miulang
                                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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