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Thread: Hawaii Superferry

  1. #51
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    Thumbs down Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron S
    I was just stating fact that you don't care if alien species get transported
    to other islands. I disagree that other modes of transport can do the same
    damage. It seems you don't get it. I'll be telling you "I told you so" when
    my prognoscations come true.

    You do realize you are not the only person living on this planet. I hope you
    do as your me, me,me,me attitude is very annoying. I would like to have
    the Super Ferry happen, but not at the expense of the environment or
    the people living on each island.

    You know if you don't want to have anything to do with me you can always do the following:

    1. Add me to your IGNORE list (I think I and all of my posts are forever blocked from your view as you activate this option).

    2. Do not send me any more private messages.

    3. Do not send me anymore emails.

    That will solve your problem with me.

    As for the alien spieces, it did not take a Superferry to introduce fire ants to the big island. It did not take a Superferry to introduce the Koki Frog to the islands. It did not take the Superferry to introduce miconia to the islands. It did not take the Superferry to introduce dengue fever carrying mosquitoes to the islands. It did not take the Superferry to introduce mongoose to the islands. All of these came in by different modes of transport. Superferry or not, these will still come in.... boat, barge, planes, mail, containers, whatever. Doesn't take a Superferry to bring em in or transport em to other islands.

    For you death to the Superferry is all you want given your whacko agenda and thinking. Sorry the majority of the people want the superferry but the environmentalists who have the most zeal to defeat it will definitely do so if they have their way.

    I guess its tough crap for Hawaii again.

    Another nail in Hawaii's ongoing reputation of one of the worst places in the United States to do business.

    __________________________________


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  2. #52
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    By the way, I have nothing personally to gain from having a superferry around. All it does is offer people another choice of transport between the islands.

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  3. #53
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Better yet, I won't post here anymore. How does that suit you.
    You win...I lose just what you wanted.

    Besides that I tried to put you on ignore, I cannot since your
    a moderator.
    Last edited by Aaron S; March 1st, 2005 at 01:47 PM.
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  4. #54
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Aaron, as I mentioned above, if you know what you're going to get, why bother attempting responding at all? Besides, Mel might consistently blast any dissenting view as that of a brick-lobbing liberal, but you've called him out, too. Whether or not you can make his views vanish, you control whether or not to reply.

    I want the superferry. I also think a decent EIS should be conducted, and I remain baffled over why one wasn't even undertaken before the process got this far. This view doesn't make me a capitalist or a liberal, just a reasonable person with an opinion.

    I think "cross contamination" - be it human and vehicle traffic, or fire ants - is an important concern. But even you posted early on in this very thread about the precautions the superferry program plans to enact, and - somewhere in his tunnel-visioned ramblings - Mel makes a decent point that a ferry is the least of our worries when it comes to foreign pests. All sorts of bugs come over in containers, hiding in couches and beds from Arizona. Snakes probably fall out of jumbo jet wheel-wells on a weekly basis. Is it something to ignore with the superferry project? No. Is it a looming disaster? No.

    See? Thoughtful, non-tunnelvisioned discussion is possible. Don't leave the whole board. Just be more selective in who you bother to discuss things with.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    I sent in testimony to the Senate Transportation Committee in opposition to SB 1785 and in support of the Hawaii Superferry.


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  6. #56
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon
    See? Thoughtful, non-tunnelvisioned discussion is possible. Don't leave the whole board. Just be more selective in who you bother to discuss things with.

    Unless I can block Mel, I'm going to ask to be removed from here. I have bit my tongue long enough.
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  7. #57
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron S
    Unless I can block Mel, I'm going to ask to be removed from here. I have bit my tongue long enough.

    why dontcha block him with yer own will and selective powers of control?
    You see his posts: just ignore them.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Quote Originally Posted by kimo55
    why dontcha block him with yer own will and selective powers of control?
    You see his posts: just ignore them.

    I wish it was that easy.....like I said I bit my tongue long enough.

    Edit: Issue has been resolved, I'm staying put..
    Last edited by Aaron S; March 2nd, 2005 at 04:25 PM.
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  9. #59
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    The bill in question that would've required an EIS for the Super Ferry was killed in the legislature today.
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  10. #60
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry


  11. #61

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Did Young Brothers ever file an EIS? Did Navatek? For that matter, did Aloha, Hawaiian, or Island Air, or any of the other airlines? Suppose a barge carrying gas over to one of the outer islands sank? Or a newly-refueled plane crashed off the reef runway?

    This one looked like obstructionism to me from the git-go. Same like those folks on Molokai or wherever who just hate the thought of cruise ships.

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    It isn't question of like Aloha or Hawaiian, Matson etc never filing a EIS.
    It is question your going to have eons of people and vehicles being transported at the same time between the islands. Aloha and Hawaiian cannot transport cars and Matson and Young Brothers cannot transport large quantities of people.

    But withe Super Ferry you get a double helping of cars and people at the same
    time. Am I the only one that sees a problem here. The traffic situation here
    on the Big Island is horrible. Since the government is unwilling the expediate
    infrastructure inprovements to like Queen Kaahumanu. Which if you have not
    seen has become a death trap lately. The additional vehicles will exacerbate
    the situation.

    I hope I'm wrong, but its like no one cares.Lets let the capitalistic machine
    steamroll us.
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  13. #63
    waioli kai Guest

    Default No more private cars

    Quote Originally Posted by mel
    It's still about 2 years away, but many people in Hawaii are excited about the new Hawaii Superferrry that is supposed to be put into interisland service in 2006. The Hawaii Superferry will allow passengers to travel over the ocean and offer the option of them bringing their vehicles along.

    In March I got the opportunity to visit a prototype of the kind of ship Hawaii Superferry Inc. will sail in Hawaii waters. The ship called the Spirit of Ontario passed through Hawaii on its way to its service destination
    So everyone packs up their coolers in their cars, catch the ferry to a neighbor island, and what? Rent a room? No, camp in (move into) the already overused, overwhelmed public parks !!

    I went on Spirit of Ontario ferry also, but at the time was oblivious to what the impact of inter-island transport of private cars might be.

    If such transport of private vehicles is to occur I'm opposed to the ferry.
    Last edited by waioli kai; March 3rd, 2005 at 08:08 PM.

  14. #64

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Wait a minute. All the passengers presumably have to (or want to) go to the other islands anyway, and many of them would rent a car once they got there. So I'm not entirely convinced that they'd add a whole lot to the existing traffic. Some, sure; maybe an additional 10%? But not zillions.

    I can see bottlenecks coming out of the harbors, but once they're on the roads I don't think (and I haven't been off Oahu since 1993) it would make as much difference as some think.

  15. #65
    waioli kai Guest

    Default Visitors' public park use, ferry-effect

    Visitors' public park use, ferry-effect

    So you think the effects of Hawaii state residents' hopping on the ferry with their vehicles (vehicles loaded with good and bad "goodies"; insects, other vermine, as well as cargo; the latter of which practice is not permitted by Matson or Young Brothers) is okay? When these state residents arrive on an island not of their own residence, the reidents of the county on whose island the visitor arrives will be sharing their county parks with resident visitors in degrees which such parks are not widely shared with visitors not resident of the state of Hawaii ---such as camping, fishing, hanging out. Visitors not resident to Hawaii are not inclined to home-base themselves in public parks.

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Visitors' public park use, ferry-effect

    Quote Originally Posted by waioli kai
    When these state residents arrive on an island not of their own residence, the reidents of the county on whose island the visitor arrives will be sharing their county parks with resident visitors in degrees which such parks are not widely shared with visitors not resident of the state of Hawaii
    Say what?!??
    I nominate that for the single most confusing sentence ever posted in HawaiiThreads!

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Clearly, you haven't been reading waioli kai's other posts then.

  18. #68
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Miyashiro
    Clearly, you haven't been reading waioli kai's other posts then.
    Well, if that sentence I quoted was a typical example, then you know why I haven't been reading them!

  19. #69
    waioli kai Guest

    Default Visitors' pocket$

    When these state residents arrive on an island not of their own residence,

    the residents of the county on whose island the visitor arrives will be sharing their county parks with resident visitors,

    sharing in degrees (ie, overnight camping, restrooms, parking) which such parks are not widely shared with visitors who are not resident of the state of Hawaii, visitors who can afford $1000/3day packages for shelter, bathing arrangements, and the like.

    Does that help?

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    I suppose the question is, do you think the overall volume of interisland traffic - here referring to both people and vehicles - will change drastically once the Superferry is running.

    On the vehicle side, I think it might be a noticable change, since current interisland travelers don't take their cars with them. But, said travelers will also not be renting cars, so the net increase in the number of cars traversing roads might not jump that much (though the number of cars period might).

    On the people side, I don't know. I think the number of visits will increase per traveler, which I suppose is the same thing, but I think much of the people coming over on the ferry are people that would just not be coming by plane.

    As for the use of public spaces, I suppose they'll see more use (since your average tourist from Nebraska won't be going to a neighborhood park). So a concern is definitely how increased use of both parks and roads will be handled, since it's not like Maui County's own vehicle registration, weight, or road tax will be assessed on visiting cars (which will, of course, most likely eventually leave).

    As for cargo and bugs and other agricultural risks... these exist in other modes of travel as well. Not everything living transported by air rides in the freezing luggage compartment, and even if other shippers don't technically allow you to sneak stuff into your cars for the ride, I assure you it happens most regularly.

    Another technical note: Unlike cruise ships, and I imagine most industrial tankers, these Superferries won't dump human and other waste at sea, instead storing it and pumping it into municipal systems when docked (as they should).

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon
    As for cargo and bugs and other agricultural risks... these exist in other modes of travel as well. Not everything living transported by air rides in the freezing luggage compartment, and even if other shippers don't technically allow you to sneak stuff into your cars for the ride, I assure you it happens most regularly.
    I am wondering what's the current regulations in transporting dogs and cats between the islands?

  22. #72
    waioli kai Guest

    Default Empty pocket$

    Empty pockets
    *** *** *** ***

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon
    I suppose the question is, do you think the overall volume of interisland traffic - here referring to both people and vehicles - will change drastically once the Superferry is running?
    Will the overall volume of interisland traffic - here referring to both people and vehicles - change drastically once the Superferry is running ?**

    "...once the Superferry is running..." ? You have reason to be so confident?
    ... ... ... ... ...
    ... ... ... ... ...
    ** Interisland traffic then compared to now, then and now with just air transit?
    Ask any resident what "drastically change" means to them when it comes to introducing more humanity onto their right-of-ways (air , land and sea), onto their roads and streets, into their countys' public parks and their countys' state and federal parks.... ask any year round resident, especially those who have been here some decades.... ....the response would near universally be: "Are you kidding?" Of course there are those too who would eagerly entertain "drastic change" in the context of the demands made upon them by an ever deeper inundation of humanity (mostly the things that are "needed" by, that accompany the human mass) on these pinpricks in the Pacific they call home, a'ina.
    Drastic change like making each island democracy more accountable to the peoples who are of that a'ina. not "democracy" accountable to US and foreign corporations and their facilitators in county, state and federal politics. Drastic , radical change like voting districtly, changing the way we transit, and...
    In other words, everybody I know thinks drastic change is overdue, allowing more humanity (their vehicles, coolers, families,,,why not pets as well!!) on the rock under existing conditions would be criminal.
    ... ... ... ... ...
    **Interisland traffic (possibly) later compared to now; now with just air,
    then with both ferry and air transit?
    The preceeding question's response taken into account yields only one reply to this question: Yes, of course, how could it not?
    ... ... ... ... ...
    On the vehicle side, I think it might be a noticable change, since current interisland travelers don't take their cars with them. But, said travelers will also not be renting cars, so the net increase in the number of cars traversing roads might not jump that much (though the number of cars period might).
    Current travelers using leased vehicles, if they need them, on the island they're flying to, will on the whole be of much of the same make-up and numbers regardless their being able to island-hop with (for a price of course) their vehicles under their seats. The (alleged to be) money saved on a cargo round trip for the island-hopping vehicle compared to leasing a vehicle on the traveler's visited island is more signifigant the longer the stay of the traveler. Young Brothers already ships private vehicles for those travelers on longish 'visits'; visits where there could be a signfigant difference between costs of leasing a vehicle on a visit and owning a vehicle on a visit.
    ... ... ... ... ...
    On the people side, I think the number of visits will increase per traveler, but I think much of the people coming over on the ferry are people that would just not be coming by plane.
    The difference in costs of tickets for personal transit , air vs. ferry, is not going to be a significantly great factor in travelers' determining which means of transportation they want to use to island-hop. Overnight stays for most current island-hopping travelers entail some sort of living arrangements being made for the occassions. However, every surfer and others know very well how inexpensive it can be to live out of one's vehicle.
    ... ... ... ... ...
    As for the use of public spaces, I suppose they'll see more use (since your average tourist from Nebraska won't be going to a neighborhood park). So a concern is definitely how increased use of both parks and roads will be handled...
    Yes, handled preemptively. Not overlooked.
    ... ... ... ... ...
    As for cargo and bugs and other agricultural risks... these exist in other modes of travel as well. Not everything living transported by air rides in the freezing luggage compartment, and even if other shippers don't technically allow you to sneak stuff into your cars for the ride, I assure you it happens most regularly.
    For the typical traveler in Hawaii, in terms of air space and that which is in it, nothing compares to the traveler's vehicles. Regarding the possibility, indeed, reality of being able to "sneak stuff into your cars for the ride" I am re-assured that such conduct is not that uncommon by your "I assure you it happens most regularly."
    ... ... ... ... ...
    Unlike cruise ships, and I imagine most industrial tankers, these Superferries won't dump human and other waste at sea, instead storing it and pumping it into municipal systems when docked (as they should).
    How sure are you about cruise ships that ply Hawaiian waters dumping human and other waste into the ocean? Industrial tankers? Having served a spell in the Coast Guard, though not in Hawaii, I am very dubious with regard to such practices being allowed to occur with the commonness which you seem to infer.

  23. #73

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    Well, even though the State Legislature last week voted against requiring the proposed Superferry owners to undergo an EIS, the mayors of both Kauai and Maui County (and the County Council also sided with the Mayor on this one) still insist on an EIS, but there is apparently a compromise in the works, at least on Maui.

    The DOT yesterday proposed using a barge that will be permanently moored at the end of the Kahului Pier 2 for use by the Superferry. Apparently since it is not a "permanent" structure per se, there is very little environmental impact, and this should not require an EIS like a more permanent pier would need. It also should not impede the Young Bros barges and the canoe club use.

    If Kauai can come up with a similar solution as Maui, I think the Superferry will become another viable alternative for interisland travel by 2006.

    Miulang

  24. #74
    waioli kai Guest

    Default genuine aloha, sense of community: imperiled

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    If Kauai can come up with a similar solution as Maui, I think the Superferry will become another viable alternative for interisland travel by 2006.
    Miulang
    Airlines transport to Kauai new pathogens daily, at times hourly. Soon, if things go as Superferry, Inc. proposes, another avenue of transport will be available for travelers and their intended and unintended cargoes of every description...from viruses to humans, and conceivably anything in between.

    Among other claims, Hawaii Superferry, Inc. CEO John Garibaldi writes this to newspaper editors: " We (of Hawaii Superferry, Inc.) hope the people of Kaua‘i will help support our efforts to bring this service to this island so that connecting with friends and families is easier and more affordable for all members of our community."

    Superferry, Inc. CEO, directors and enthusiasts may indeed believe that Superferry, Inc. will make " connecting with friends and families easier and more affordable". Yet, for the traveler, just as there is nothing easier about being transported on the ocean's surface verses being transported in a jet high above the ocean, the costs of the means of transport (water ferry vs. air ferry) is not the major expenditure which creates inter-island traveling restraints on "friends and families" in Hawaii; nor is it most common that inter-island visits' major expenditures are the extra price of an insured rental vehicle (verses, paying for a one's own vehicle to ride Superferry ) at one's destination. The major costs is overwhelmingly more likely than not to be costs related to securing shelter overnight away from one's island of residence.

    According to Superferry promotions there is this pent up demand of friends and families who would, but for prohibitively high costs of air ferry, go to other islands to visit with, pay regards to kin and/or friends. To a significantly large degree, I believe that presumption is not true.

    Who will be paying Superferry for a round trip of a personal vehicle for a day visit? A three day visit? A week? A month visit? Of those who may travel inter-island on a budget unable to afford air transit, yet able to afford Superferry transit, how many would stay a day, three days, a week , a month? with "friends and families"? with motel, hotel staffs and cashiers? in or on County and State parks, parking lots, public right-of-ways, minimally policed and supervised beaches?

    In numbers, how many Oahu, Maui and Hawaii residents and transients (borderline and for real) does Superferry expect to be rotating through Kauai ? Passengers with their vehicles, whatever can be crammed and/or hidden inside them, whatever state of insurance, legality or other condition of the vehicle? For a round trip, of both passenger and vehicle? In numbers, how many similar travelers and their vehicles originating in neighboring islands would be equally needing to go to Oahu by Superferry?

    As of Feb 2005, Hawaii Superferry, Inc. is represented on paper as $73 million in shares with 0.001 share par value. Attempting to come into existence on a shoestring of financing, Superferry gives little reason to expect that it will not of necessity be operating likewise, that is, on a shoestring budget: not significantly unlike the financial nature of those toward whom Superferry, Inc. has stated to be focusing its market expectations.

    With agricultural inspections and passenger identification security procedures no less effective than those of the airline industry, as a means of transport for passengers only, a six to eight hour round trip channel-crossing ferry could possibly be an enduring, desirable option for some Hawaii residents and tourists. However, given that Superferry, Inc.'s CEO Garibaldi admits "it must be remembered that if the demand for an EIS is passed into law, the Superferry's carefully crafted financing package will fall apart...EIS requirement will sink the Superferry", there is little doubt that Superferry, Inc. has either the financial resources or the will to make the overall consequences of Superferry inter-island operations be more than a socially, culturally disruptive, intrusive and destabilizing speculative commercial adventure putting the last spike into the cause for, the life of what little genuine aloha and sense of community remains on Oahu's neighbor islands.

  25. #75
    waioli kai Guest

    Default genuine aloha, sense of community: imperiled

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    If Kauai can come up with a similar solution as Maui, I think the Superferry will become another viable alternative for interisland travel by 2006.
    Miulang
    Airlines transport pathogens daily, at times hourly. Soon, if things go as Superferry, Inc. proposes, another avenue of transport will be available for travelers and their intended and unintended cargoes of every description...from viruses to humans, and conceivably anything in between.

    Among other claims, Hawaii Superferry, Inc. CEO John Garibaldi writes this to newspaper editors: " We (of Hawaii Superferry, Inc.) hope the people will help support our efforts to bring this service to this island so that connecting with friends and families is easier and more affordable for all members of our community."

    Superferry, Inc. CEO, directors and enthusiasts may indeed believe that Superferry, Inc. will make " connecting with friends and families easier and more affordable". Yet, for the traveler, just as there is nothing easier about being transported on the ocean's surface verses being transported in a jet high above the ocean, the costs of the means of transport (water ferry vs. air ferry) is not the major expenditure which creates inter-island traveling restraints on "friends and families" in Hawaii; nor is it most common that inter-island visits' major expenditures are the extra price of an insured rental vehicle (verses, paying for a one's own vehicle to ride Superferry ) at one's destination. The major costs is overwhelmingly more likely than not to be costs related to securing shelter overnight away from one's island of residence.

    According to Superferry promotions there is this pent up demand of friends and families who would, but for prohibitively high costs of air ferry, go to other islands to visit with, pay regards to kin and/or friends. To a significantly large degree, I believe that presumption is not true.

    Who will be paying Superferry for a round trip of a personal vehicle for a day visit? A three day visit? A week? A month visit? Of those who may travel inter-island on a budget unable to afford air transit, yet able to afford Superferry transit, how many would stay a day, three days, a week , a month? with "friends and families"? with motel, hotel staffs and cashiers? in or on County and State parks, parking lots, public right-of-ways, minimally policed and supervised beaches?

    In numbers, how many Oahu residents and transients (borderline and for real) does Superferry expect to be rotating through the islands? Passengers with their vehicles, whatever can be crammed and/or hidden inside them, whatever state of insurance, legality or other condition of the vehicle? For a round trip, of both passenger and vehicle? In numbers, how many similar travelers and their vehicles originating in neighboring islands would be equally needing to go to Oahu by Superferry?

    As of Feb 2005, Hawaii Superferry, Inc. is represented on paper as $73 million in shares with 0.001 share par value. Attempting to come into existence on a shoestring of financing, Superferry gives little reason to expect that it will not of necessity be operating likewise, that is, on a shoestring budget: not significantly unlike the financial nature of those toward whom Superferry, Inc. has stated to be focusing its market expectations.

    With agricultural inspections and passenger identification security procedures no less effective than those of the airline industry, as a means of transport for passengers only, a six to eight hour round trip channel-crossing ferry could possibly be an enduring, desirable option for some Hawaii residents and tourists. However, given that Superferry, Inc.'s CEO Garibaldi admits "it must be remembered that if the demand for an EIS is passed into law, the Superferry's carefully crafted financing package will fall apart...EIS requirement will sink the Superferry", there is little doubt that Superferry, Inc. has either the financial resources or the will to make the overall consequences of Superferry inter-island operations be more than a socially, culturally disruptive, intrusive and destabilizing speculative commercial adventure putting the last spike into the cause for, the life of what little genuine aloha and sense of community remains on Oahu's neighbor islands.
    Last edited by waioli kai; March 22nd, 2005 at 08:59 PM.

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