You talk pidgin?

[kimo55]

Re: you talk pidgin?

"Creole"...
Louisianians don't have exclusive use of the word.

I would never " insist that creole is only about white people"
nope. never.

Here is the etymology of the word:
French créole, from Spanish criollo, from Portuguese crioulo = white person born in the colonies.

How it became a generic term for a type of pidgin lately i dunno. It will always sound strange to have the originally Louisiana term applied to Hawaii.

[Karen]

Re: you talk pidgin?

Hey Kimo!

Oh man I wish the lawn was mowed, Nope lots being with family and friends, and not working outside. Shame on me! We did harvest some avocadoes, pass some along, and even vacuum sealed and froze some. Dunno how that's gonna taste in a few weeks, but gotta try, cuz some claim it works.

They say heavy rain is probably coming, so I now have an excuse to not mow till Wed. or so, besides, I want the trades to cool me when I do yardwork, and I luv doing it. honest...really(G)

[fvck3k]

Re: you talk pidgin?

Here at the office we "Hawaii Transplants" email each other in pidgin. It's difficult at times to decipher what we're trying to say to each other but during lunch we clear everything up and end up having a good 'ol time making fun of what we were trying to say.

[hikiee]

Re: you talk pidgin?

Even if pidgin flows easily from one's keyboard, reading pidgin is another matter entirely. For good reason, there's no Pidgin Manual of Style or anything, so there's no rules or conventions as to how pidgin looks (since it is, after all, an oral tradition). Is it li'dat, or la'dat? Stay or stey or steh? Some folks use apostrophes to mark omitted letters in English words (he wen' go), some don't.

The differences we see in top selling "pidgin literature" are excellent examples. Depending on your own personal style, Lee Tonouchi's stuff may be hard to process but Lois Ann Yamanaka's stuff might flow naturally... or the other way around. There's no right way or wrong way, and that's both good and bad.

Whether by design or not, reading written pidgin aloud is one way to stay on track. As long as coworkers don't think you're being strange.

I suppose. Of course, this might be an argument against speaking strictly pidgin. Interesting how a pidgin/creole language that developed to be more inclusive to different types of people can also be invoked in a way that is exclusionary...

I can't speak Pidgin but can pretty much understand. On the contrary to your post, I find that when I read "pidgin literature" it's much easier to understand. But maybe it's just because sometimes the people I hear speaking pidgin go so fast it's kind of hard to keep up.

[AuntieNellieKulolo]

Re: you talk pidgin?

I can talk pidgin pretty good fo' one haole from Punahou currently living in NYC...


I use certain words no matter who I'm with as a matter of habit and as a reminder of where I'm from. If somebody doesn't know what 'cockaroach'(as a verb) or 'puka' means, they will learn from me. My boss now knows the meaning of 'kuleana' and 'pilikia', just like I learned 'agita'(roughly the NYC equivalent of 'pilikia') and just because somebody is 'on line' doesn't mean they're using a computer... I also find I use 'yeah?' a lot more than the average NYer.


When I'm back home with my local friends I jus' go buckaloose...

[craigwatanabe]

Re: you talk pidgin?

In true pidgin the syntax pretty much follows the Hawaiian language so if you were to say: Where is the remote? The proper pidgin syntax should be: Eh da remote, wea stay? Not Wea stay da remote? That's how you can tell someone who speaks Hawaiian fluently trying to speak broken English vs someone who tries to assimilate into Hawaii's local culture without understanding it. You have to use the rules of Hawaiian syntax and insert English words to make it sound totally local.

Here on the Big Island, the Hawaiian language is spoken quite a bit so the keiki that must attend public schools suffer as a result when they try to cross the bridge from family to school and must use pidgin english to do so.

They understand how to communicate in Hawaiian and not in English but thru school and their friends they learn English words. They put those words into the syntax they're used to (Hawaiian) and it comes out Pidgin.

What some try to do is the opposite: They use English syntax and insert Pidgin words. That's why Big Island pidgin from the rural areas like Kapoho cannot be fully understood by people who speak urban pidgin from Honolulu because the syntax is all backwards.

One of the Beamer brothers (I think it was Keoala Beamer) once said on a radio interview that many of today's contemporary Hawaiian singers who translate Hawaiian lyrics into English ones mess up the meaning of those lyrics to the point where the singer is meaning something entirely different.

That's very important especially if you're singing about sovereignty and you want it but the translation tells the Haole that you don't. Translation of Hawaiian chants should be taboo as the essence of the message won't be entirely understood if translated and could be dangerously misinterpreted.

So to answer the question: Where is the remote? The answer in Pidgin is: Eh Stupid...da TV on top, what you stay blind!

True Hawaiian pidgin English follows the syntax of the Hawaiian language.

[kimo55]

Re: you talk pidgin?

Translation of Hawaiian chants should be taboo as the essence of the message won't be entirely understood if translated and could be dangerously misinterpreted.

many kamaaina believe chants should not be transcribed or even recorded and disseminated. too sacred fo dat.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: you talk pidgin?

Craig, do you know whether the syntax of other Polynesian languages is the same as Hawaiian syntax? Here in Honolulu, most Hawaiians are fluent in English but I'm much more likely to meet a Samoan or a Tongan who's not. From the times I've talked to folks like that, it sounds like the syntax is probably similar. Just wondering.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: you talk pidgin?

Actually Hawaiian syntax is similar to many languages around the world. Internationally, it's the English language that's all F@#ked up. I don't know about other polynesian languages but I do know Japanese language syntax is similar to Hawaiian. It makes more logical sense to put together words in that sentence structure than the way we do it in English.

[Sherry]

Re: you talk pidgin?

I took me so long to learn to speak English that no, I try not to speak pidgin. But I can. After being here so long, you cannot help but pick it up I guess.
So orally, yes sometimes. But written, never.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: you talk pidgin?

It's almost impossible to write in Pidgin because there is no written format to follow. To me that's how you can determine if a language is an official one if you can write it down. Some proponents of Hawaiian Creole (Pidgen English) consider it to be an official language. I don't think so.

But if you like try write um down goin look la dis jus ask Miulang cuz we stay write back to each odda all da time dis way. Yeah Miulang? We get um!

[Albert]

Re: you talk pidgin?

Most people I hear actually talking pidgin can't seem to speak without using that f***ing word in every sentence.

It does, I admit, make me somewhat prejudiced against pidgin.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: you talk pidgin?

you're right about that one and I think that's why pidgin english has been given a bad rap because of the F@#king insertion. I used to hear a couple of my co-workers (before I retired) always using the "f" word like inhaling: Oh wow you F@#ka you going F@#king kau kau today at that F@#king lunch wagon today? Eh dey get some F@#king ono kine grinds."

EH you F@#ka watch your F@#kin language my kids stay right hea you F@#kin brokedick.

Oh pardon me.

Yeah that four-letter word pretty much is getting old.

[adrian]

Re: you talk pidgin?

you're right about that one and I think that's why pidgin english has been given a bad rap because of the F@#king insertion. I used to hear a couple of my co-workers (before I retired) always using the "f" word like inhaling: Oh wow you F@#ka you going F@#king kau kau today at that F@#king lunch wagon today? Eh dey get some F@#king ono kine grinds."

EH you F@#ka watch your F@#kin language my kids stay right hea you F@#kin brokedick.

Oh pardon me.

Yeah that four-letter word pretty much is getting old.

Yes, that may be the most versitile word.

[AuntieNellieKulolo]

Re: you talk pidgin?

Does anybody remember the Pritchett(I think) cartoon that came out a few years ago that showed a bunch of kids waiting at a bus stop? It came out in either Midweek or the Weekly as I recall. I went to the Pritchett website but it wasn't there. Every other word that came out of their mouths was a variation on 'f!@#in'... I remember some folks made stink over it, but come on, it's the truth...