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Thread: REAL ID Confusion

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005

    Default REAL ID Confusion

    This is a 3rd draft of a story I'm working on about the conflicts and confusion in government agencies concerning REAL ID Law. Don't mind the disjointed composition, I'm working on it. Plus, its a LOT to wrap your head around, and put together in understandable language without putting the reader to sleep.

    Here Goes...…

    The confusing, conflicting, and convoluted truth about ID regulations under the REAL ID Act.
    AKA The Left Hand has no idea what the Right Hand is doing.

    In Hawaii County, the DMV does not accept a MMC as id or proof of legal status for the REAL ID Drivers License. If your Birth Certificate is folded, or mutilated, that's no good either. I could not find the law or reference in the REAL ID references that prohibits folded birth certificate. At the Social Security Administration, they accept a folded B/C but not the MMC. The MMC is proof of Identity AND Citizenship according to DHS, USCG. CPB says valid for entry at borders . Section 7209 of IRTPA says MMC sufficient for Cit. and ID. WHTI rules also say MMC is valid ID and Cit. TWIC office accepts my MMC to renew my TWIC Card. Then SSA says my TWIC is valid ID to get SSC. A = B = C but A not equal to C. USCIS says MMC is proof of ID for I-9 form. But not for Citizenship. All these departments work for the same Department of Homeland Security except SSA. Basically, The DHS issues an ID that they do not accept.

    While traveling last month, at the Sonoma County Airport, TSA screeners stopped me because they had never seen the MMC before. I showed them by briefcase of research, but that didnt matter. (Speaking Truth to Power) The WHTI clearly states that MMC is valid for travel by US Citizens in the Western Hemisphere. Plus, MMC is listed on the list of REAL ID's as item (n). 30 minutes later I nearly was late for my plane. Clearly TSA does not know the rules, or train their people.

    HOW COME THE RULES ARE ALL DIFFERENT FOR THE MMC????? Whats the real answer?

    Been to TWIC office twice. MMC accepted for ID and Citizenship. Got my TWIC Card August 28.

    Been to SSA twice. 1st time – MMC only. No go. 2nd Time – MMC + B/C. No again. Showed the clerk and the supervisor the law in 20CFR422.107. They gave me a circular about citizenship for a child? Speaking Truth to Power. 3rd Trip I had my TWIC and B/C that I got in California. Finally, Victory on August 28. Clerk actually said “We don't do it that way in this office” when I started showing him proof of various rules and regulations. Neither the TWIC nor the B/C is proof of citizenship per Fed Register. SSA has a series of procedural rules, called POMS, they must adhere to and its notable that publication RM 10210.560 is nowhere to be found on the internet. I asked the clerk about it, and he said they dont publish that particular RM. Whats the secret?

    Been to DMV twice. MMC +B/C (mutilated). No good. Showed CSA my research and all the rules and regs for REAL ID. Still no. TWIC card listed on State of HI list of documents even though CSA knew TWIC was no longer acceptable. TWIC not listed on County Website. I have made literally hundreds of phonecalls all the way up the hill to Honolulu, and spoken with everyone from DOT to Lorraine Inouye and Josh Green to try to resolve the inconsistency. The DMV in Hawaii will not issue a REAL ID drivers license to someone who is showing a REAL ID issued by the Federal Department of Homeland Security.

    Been to Post Office to apply for Passport. They must take the original B/C. I was not about to part with at the time due to all the difficulty I was having. I figured out how to send for a new BC. Went back to Post Office in Captain Cook a few weeks later, after I knew that I would be able to get my B/C in Sonoma County. Passport arrived August 29. Original B/C (folded) was in envelope with Passport. So you gotta wonder if the DMV would reject your B/C because it has a fold in it that was put there by the State Department.

    DHS issues an ID that, in their words, proves Identity and Citizenship that they do not accept as proof of both Identity and Citizenship. Across the board, from agency to agency, and top to bottom, everybody is playing by different rules, and NOBODY wants to follow the law as written in 46 CFR, 6 CFR, 8 CFR, 20 CFR and 71FR68411. There are many other references I could cite but why bother.

    Still cannot figure out who the ultimate authority is at the highest government level for determining which ID's prove what? I have filed a formal complaint with the Office of the Inspector General, and received a case number. I will write this whole story, eventually, with step by step clarity, and airtight logic. Then I will send it off to Gabbard or Hirono, or someone, in the hopes that they can write legislation that will end this confusing, conflicting, inconsistency in the REAL ID Law.


    71FR68411, Part IV. Conclusion “An MMD is a document sufficient to denote identity and citizenship for United States citizens.

    6CFR37.11(c)(x) “other document DHS may designate by notice in Fed Register”. Then go to 71FR68411 where DHS designates MMC as both, and further states that TWIC AND B/C are NOT proof of citizenship.


    HI State DMV Website list of Acceptable Documents, TWIC is listed though not allowed. MMC is not listed.

    REAL ID Act of 2005 Implementation: An Interagency Security Committee Guide, Item (n) is MMC. So MMC is listed as a REAL ID.

    46CFR10.221(c)(1)(v), USCG says MMC is proof of Identity and Citizenship

    8CFR274a.2(B)(1)(viii), Aliens and Nationality. USCIS says the MMC is proof of identity


    8CFR235.1(b)(2), MMC instead of Passport for entry

    20 CFR422.107, “(6) other verification from DHS”
    Energy answers are already here.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005

    Lightbulb Re: REAL ID Confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by timkona View Post
    In Hawaii County, the DMV does not accept a MMC as id or proof of legal status for the REAL ID Drivers License. If your Birth Certificate is folded, or mutilated, that's no good either.
    I must have missed something, Tim. Did you let your driver's license expire after they converted to the new, strict Real ID standards?

    These are fairly new requirements that have bogged down Satellite City Halls for more than a year now. It's to the point where they have installed "self-service kiosks" at Safeway.
    Last edited by TuNnL; September 1st, 2019 at 04:52 PM.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Waipahu area

    Default Re: REAL ID Confusion

    i'm so confused and HI drivers license expires September 2020. I will have to ready more so as to calm myself down...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005

    Default Re: REAL ID Confusion

    TuNnL.....way fkn worse than your imagination is willing to go there. I been doing this for 3 years. And yes my license is expired. But that don't really matter too much in the age REAL ID. Still gotta jump through serious hoops before October 20, 2020. \\

    $#!+ gonna hit the fan for Hawaii. And about 5 other states, on top of the states already not in compliance. But not because the States aren't trying. Its the US CFR, USC, and Federal Register that all don't jive. So many contradictions. So many Conundrums. Tons of bad logic, or Catch-22's. No conformity. No PURE Authority on the subject. Everybody passing the buck, and NOT following law, regulations, or procedures.

    Believe me, I been researching, and writing about this, for 3 years. Its been very difficult to re-establish my identity in the wake of my HDL expiring. All my fault. No excuses.

    But if you cannot us a REAL ID to obtain a REAL ID, then the system is broken.

    As for ALL OF YOU, Birth Certificate with no mutilations, SS Card, Passport, etc etc etc. You will need everyone of them to make your case. ITs very hard to get any of them using any of them as your proof. The rules change depending on who your window Customer Service Representive is. If they having a bad day, or you make ass...….NEXTTTTTT!!!!!!!!

    And when you try to call GUMMINT about it, half the phone numbers are disconnected, or just a robot, multiple choice, circle jerk, that NEVER solves anything.


    Because they know if they win, they will be disbarred. Get it?

    The REVOLUTION has started with Trump, Brexit, Gen Z's disgust with Political Correctness, and the complete horse manure implosion of the Democratic Party due to their extremists who show no guilt or remorse for their terrible antics. The 60's are finally coming to a close.

    Energy answers are already here.


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