FlyHawaii Airlines?

[pzarquon]

Re: FlyHawaii Airlines?

I'm not claiming any rational reason for my preference. It's purely emotional, and of course groundless. (No pun intended.) I know I take my life into my own hands and put myself in much greater risk just driving down the H-1 freeway. Statistics alone don't stop anxiety, though.

I used to be terrified of all air travel, but had to get over it quickly when a job required me to fly all over the place.

FWIW, jets are generally less prone to crashes than propeller planes, but that can be attributed to a number of reasons (i.e. average flight hours of pilots), and further, propeller planes tend to fly at "survivable altitudes," whereas with a mid-air disaster on a 747, you might as well be in space.

[30,20,10,retard]

Re: FlyHawaii Airlines?

and further, propeller planes tend to fly at "survivable altitudes," whereas with a mid-air disaster on a 747, you might as well be in space.

The average airspeed of a turbo prop in cruise is 300KTS or about 350 MPH. IF you hit anything at that speed you are toast...

The average speed of a 747 at cruise is about 500 MPH..

what makes a mid air collision at 350 mph any different that one at 500 mph?

The only difference between the two aircraft is passenger comfort... NOT SAFETY!!!!!

[Miulang]

Re: FlyHawaii Airlines?

The average airspeed of a turbo prop in cruise is 300KTS or about 350 MPH. IF you hit anything at that speed you are toast...

The average speed of a 747 at cruise is about 500 MPH..

what makes a mid air collision at 350 mph any different that one at 500 mph?

The only difference between the two aircraft is passenger comfort... NOT SAFETY!!!!!

Not to mention the number of "toastees": <100 in a turboprop v. 2-300 in a jet!

Miulang

[mel]

Re: FlyHawaii Airlines?

Prospective Interisland Carrier Shuts Down

FlyHawaii Airlines, the startup interisland carrier that had planned to begin service next year, has laid off most of its 20-member work force and closed its office in Topa Tower in downtown Honolulu.

The move was made a week ago, leaving only about three employees to wrap up operations, according to a source familiar with the situation.

FlyHawaii, the brainchild of Lion Coffee founder James Delano, lost its primary investors last month when a group that included America Online founder Steve Case decided against buying into the carrier shortly after Phoenix-based regional carrier Mesa Air Group Inc. announced plans to enter the Hawaii interisland market early next year.

[Composite 2992]

Re: FlyHawaii Airlines?

I'm not claiming any rational reason for my preference. It's purely emotional, and of course groundless. (No pun intended.) I know I take my life into my own hands and put myself in much greater risk just driving down the H-1 freeway. Statistics alone don't stop anxiety, though.

I used to be terrified of all air travel, but had to get over it quickly when a job required me to fly all over the place.

FWIW, jets are generally less prone to crashes than propeller planes, but that can be attributed to a number of reasons (i.e. average flight hours of pilots), and further, propeller planes tend to fly at "survivable altitudes," whereas with a mid-air disaster on a 747, you might as well be in space.

Well, if this is any consolation, almost all crashes are the end result of a series of human errors (known as an error chain), most of which would be avoided if everyone followed existing regulations and established procedures. Mechanical malfunctions are almost never entirely to blame. And even when there is a mechanical cause, the mechanical problem is linked to some oversight or maintenance failure. Also contributing to the actual crash is the flight crew's failure to take appropriate action in the event of an emergency.

The reverse is also true where dozens of lives are saved due to a flight crew's heroic ability to maintain control and fly the plane despite adverse circumstances: Aloha Flight 243 where the top half of the forward fuselage suddenly blew out.

While both jets and prop planes cruise at speeds which translate into fatal impacts, should both have to ditch or get into a forced landing, the prop plane generally travels slower at touchdown.

A 737 approach speed is about 140 knots. A small turboprop's approach speed is about half that. And a Cessna 172 final approach is somewhere between 50 to 60 knots. Speed on actual touchdown is a lot lower.

And another myth to bust: When jets lose engine power, they don't drop like bricks. They glide better than most paper airplanes and cover great distances. However, they have to glide REAL FAST. Every interisland flight is like this. On your next flight listen to the engines when you're within several miles of the destination. You'll hear them spool down and get quiet. At that point the engines are at idle power and the plane is mostly gliding to its destination to save fuel.

[aloha-anon]

Re: FlyHawaii Airlines?

A 737 approach speed is about 140 knots. A small turboprop's approach speed is about half that.

Approach speed of a turboprop, lets say the most popular turboprop in the world, a Beech King Air, is still in the 120-140 range, depending on weight. A larger Dash8 is actually a little slower with that huge wing.

On your next flight listen to the engines when you're within several miles of the destination. You'll hear them spool down and get quiet. At that point the engines are at idle power and the plane is mostly gliding to its destination to save fuel.

Not "mostly" either, they are gliding. On a nice parabolic profile, thrust levers will go to idle about half way to Maui or Lihue. If planned properly, the airplane will glide very nicely all the way to final approach, jet's dont go down and slow down very well, its usually one or the other. Idle thrust and sometimes added drag in the way of gear, flaps, speedbrakes etc will all be used to adjust a descent profile. We hardly ever use power unless ATC asks us to level off before reaching final. 3 miles per 1000 ft is a nice rule, add 5 miles to slow down. Adjust for strong trades or kona winds and weight.

Power is added on short final only to stabilize the profile. Drag is added in the way of flaps & gear which also help make the contact with pavement a bit smoother.

Landing with power is also standard procedure in the event of a go-around. Go arounds happen because of runway incursions by other aircraft and animals etc... Sometimes a strong wind shear or mechanical malfunction will also set off a go around. Go arounds are much easier if the engines are already spinning. Turbines take so long to spool up.

[mel]

Re: FlyHawaii Airlines?

Landing with power is also standard procedure in the event of a go-around. Go arounds happen because of runway incursions by other aircraft and animals etc... Sometimes a strong wind shear or mechanical malfunction will also set off a go around. Go arounds are much easier if the engines are already spinning. Turbines take so long to spool up.

This is good to know that the power is applied just before touchdown. I usually am always aware of the different sounds the aircraft makes on both takeoff and landing.

Last year I was in an aborted landing situation on approach to HNL. Was a bit nerve wrecking, but I am glad we aborted because before the plane made the turn to align it with the runway, I did see a jet just sitting at the end to where we were supposed to land.

BTW, when do airliners start their glide approach to Hilo airport?

[aloha-anon]

Re: FlyHawaii Airlines?

This is good to know that the power is applied just before touchdown. I usually am always aware of the different sounds the aircraft makes on both takeoff and landing.

Last year I was in an aborted landing situation on approach to HNL. Was a bit nerve wrecking, but I am glad we aborted because before the plane made the turn to align it with the runway, I did see a jet just sitting at the end to where we were supposed to land.

BTW, when do airliners start their glide approach to Hilo airport?

I read your account of the "near miss" and it would not be considered a near miss. The FAA describes a "near miss" by breaking it down to "potential" and "critical" a potential near miss would be within 500 ft, a critical is less than 100 ft. I have never had a critical near miss. I dont know anybody that has. These are very rare as there are too far many cross checks in the system to prevent near misses.

If Aloha was indeed clear to land and there was another airplane cleared onto the runway at the same time then that is either controller error or a bona-fide runway incursion (pilot error, he failed to obey a hold short command). Airplanes are usually clear to land well before reaching the Pearl Channel. Your story says the 717 was already on the runway while Aloha was still out over the ocean so this is nothing more than poor timing probably, things happen fast in turbine powered equipment. A simple 5 second delay by the 717 or mis-judgement in timing of a previous departure, possibly off one of the 4's, will cause a go-around. Hawaii has harldy any go-arounds compared to many busy mainland airports where they routinely "push tin" very hard. Much ado about nothing. Sorry.

Top of descent to Hilo is about 80 miles out. Simple math, 25K feet high, need to descend to sea level, times 25,000 by three, divide by 1000, then add 5 miles to slow down. Add another 5 miles if the weather is bad to slow earlier. (geographical answer is somewhere close to abeam Upolu Point)

Since I can tell you are a fan of aviation, & now that you know the math, tell me when (how many miles out) you would start your descent into Reno if you are coming from Vegas say at 34,000 feet? The weather is severe clear, & you are the only airplane in the sky, but fuel is very expensive these days so you want to start down at exactly the right time so you won't need any power until final approach. Lets see how you do. Here's the math again...

Altitude you need to lose X 3
________________________ + 5 miles to slow down = top of descent
1000