Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

[1stwahine]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

aloha everyone! i took my mama to update and finalize all her last wishes in the event of her death. it's not something that can be done without crying, that's for sure! the realization of a love one dying and never to be with you again is a wake-up call to what reality is. being the youngest and the one taking care of her is especially hard. last week she almost fell. this past sunday she didn't grumble bout being put into a wheelchair. can you imagine a mentally ill aunty pushing mama in a wheelchair around? i sing and dance and do all sorts of moves...it's fun for her and fun for everybody else around too. yeah, i'm ventilating to you all, cause you are my ohana.

please prepare for the inevitable no matter how morbid it may seem to be. once done, one can enjoy life without worrying bout it.

love and aloha,
aunty lynn aka aunty pupule!

[Karen]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

Pzarquon,
as for character assassination, why in the world is there a nurse that cared for her for two years, that has SWORN in affidavit, under danger of perjury & jail time, that Terry's hubby wanted her dead, has a temper that he couldn't control with some of the nurses, ordered her to have no therapy, not even a damn jacuzzi like other patients get/got, etc...why is this nurse not afraid of lawsuits from the hubby?! She's on radio and tv, speaking out today, is not personal friends with the parents, etc, just doing what she thinks right. WHY are there three docs that aren't personally associated, that after seeing Terry on video, one that's not allowed to be showed anymore, the three individually signed sworn affidavits that she's not veggie state? Could it be true?

You said "Besides, even if her husband is a total ass, he was and is her husband. My point was, if you're going to fight for marital privileges, you're going to have to accept all marriages, from true love to Vegas spontenaity. Her husband's standing as Terri's guardian has rightfully been upheld in several courts." to this, I say....

No, in matters of life and death, we do not have to fight for marital privelege in a marriage where the man is living with another woman, that being common-law marriage, even having kids with her! Your point remains askew.

What is the divorce rate now, over fifty percent? We know the horrors of what brings people to divorce, and it is common sense that with a matter of life and death, we can trust those that brought one into the world, over a mate. In this case...

Michael, Schiavo has another "wife" and family, he has actively prevented trying to help his wife healing, ordering nurses to NOT do any therapy, he has been offered MONEY to hand his wife over to his parents, even by a total stranger, her mom asks him to divorce her instead of cheating on her with his other family, and hand her to them to take care of, being totally free of her, but he won't. HMMMM...very strange, why won't he? With the deterioration of human race, so many hubbies having been proven to kill their wives in modern times, it is not an exaggeration to say that he may have caused her condition just as her parents say, and be working so hard for her to die so she can't TALK, telling on him.

[pzarquon]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

why is this nurse not afraid of lawsuits from the hubby?! She's on radio and tv, speaking out today, is not personal friends with the parents, etc, just doing what she thinks right.

Because the glow of the media lights is pretty hard to resist? Not sure. I haven't heard this, though. Got a link?

WHY are there three docs that aren't personally associated, that after seeing Terry on video, one that's not allowed to be showed anymore, the three individually signed sworn affidavits that she's not veggie state?

Because they haven't thoroughly evaluated Terri's condition, unlike the many medical professionals consulted and put on the stand by both the husband and the parents, and think a video clip qualifies as a medically sound examination? C'mon, Karen, this one's ridiculous. There is in fact very little dispute about Terri's specific condition. The fight the parents are waging are for the miniscule chance of a miraculous recovery.

No, in matters of life and death, we do not have to fight for marital privelege in a marriage where the man is living with another woman, that being common-law marriage, even having kids with her! Your point remains askew.

Well, Tom DeLay has expressly stated over the weekend that "right to life" trumps "marital sanctity." Even without bickering over the quality of a marriage, at least this lays right out there the hierarchy of priorities.

he has been offered MONEY to hand his wife over to his parents, even by a total stranger, her mom asks him to divorce her instead of cheating on her with his other family, and hand her to them to take care of, being totally free of her, but he won't.

This is a point clear to both sides of the debate. As I noted above, it sounds to me that Michael Schiavo is therefore demonstrably notin it for the money or other nefarious purpose -- he is simply fighting for what he and Terri's close friends have said were her express wishes in the case of requiring life support.

it is not an exaggeration to say that he may have caused her condition just as her parents say, and be working so hard for her to die so she can't TALK, telling on him.

It is an exaggeration. Trust me, there have been few specific cases more exhaustively litigated than this one, and the fact that Terri's condition stemmed from an eating disorder is clear as day. In fact, liability was determined for her doctors' failure to appropriately treat that condition.

In any case, Karen, I am curious what your thoughts might be about the legal precedentswe're seeing in this case. Federal intervention in an issue normally left to state courts.

I thought it was interesting that in denying the temporary restraining order (to reinsert the feeding tube) the judge did note that there are serious constitutional problems in what Congress and Bush did. It just so happens that the futility of Terri's case was more clear.

Are we saying, then, that when push comes to shove, depending on your connections or media savvy, you can invoke politics at the highest level of government to undo the work of dozens of judges and experts if the case isn't going your way? For a party that decries big, invasive government, this is pretty problematic.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

For a party that decries big, invasive government, this is pretty problematic.

Oh, it's beyond just hypocrisy on the part of the Republicans. It strikes at the very heart of separation of powers at the federal level, as well as federalism itself. By ordering a federal court to take this case and rule on it, Congress has demonstrated that it thinks it's superior to the judiciary branch.

As to federalism, Congress has blatantly taken a case away from the state courts because some of its members didn't like the results that had been handed down over and over again.

There's a good exposition of the constitutional flaws in this case here and further links here .

Addendum: The New England Journal of Medicine just weighed in. I have links to its two articles at my place.

[pzarquon]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

The appeals panel went 2-1 against the parents. It's off to the Supreme Court! Since they've already said no, I'm hoping the response this time is quick and clear.

If Terri can finally be at peace, I'm really curious what the fallout will be. Michael Schiavo will probably be hounded by zealots for the rest of his life. But I wonder if DeLay, Bush, and other high-rollers will begin to regret getting involved. To them, the Schiavo case was new and a hot coattail to ride into the headlines... but to the family and courts, it was a decade-old battle, and I think even Terri's parents - after the camera trucks pull away - will feel just a little bit used.

[Miulang]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

We'll see what happens to both sides of the issue when the elections happen in 2006. Florida will be the most interesting case, because I believe there is one Democractic Congressman up for re-election who the Republicans (according to a memo they sent to their fellow Republicans to ensure high attendance at the vote) believe could lose the election because of this issue.

In the State of Washington, we had a Republican congressman voting against the Congressional bill for reconsideration and one Democrat voting for the measure.

Since the majority of people polled in recent weeks clearly favor the discontinuation of the feeding tube, were the Congresspeople who voted for the measure really representing their constituents, or were they voting their conscience, or even more sinisterly, voting to appease the right-to-lifers upon whom they're counting to keep them in office?

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

Since the majority of people polled in recent weeks clearly favor the discontinuation of the feeding tube, were the Congresspeople who voted for the measure really representing their constituents, or were they voting their conscience, or even more sinisterly, voting to appease the right-to-lifers upon whom they're counting to keep them in office?

That's really the thing confusing me. I'm really making an effort not to immediately presume the most evil of motives. I mean, it was clear from very early on that public sentiment was against federal intervention, or at least, against the continued prolonging of Terri's life. A mixed poll could be seen as a green light, I suppose, but as polling goes, this one was pretty clear: stay out of it, let her husband make the call.

I've listened to several of the speeches on the floor of the House (the Senate side was pathetic, plain and simple), and I earnestly think that a lot of these politicans were going with their gut, their principles, and not their political strategy. It annoys too large a percentage of their constituency to be anything but. So, while I disagree, I can certainly appreciate their convictions. For once, a politician doesn't decide by polls alone.

That said, there are definitely political motives at work in several corners in this issue, and with Bush and DeLay specifically, it's hard to see anything else.

Pandering to the further-right reaches of their base, though, seems to be a pretty big gamble compared to the majority who disagree. Except... well, we thought the further-right reaches were irrelevant in the presidential election, too, and boy were we proven wrong.

[Karen]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

Well well, look what miraculously happened Today! Terrywas evaluated/examined by a renowned Mayo Clinic neurologist for NINETY minutes! Hallelujah, look what he found! He was brought in by their childb protective agency, he isn't some "in the bush pocket" dude. Will type think html link, as I learned to not put an entire article here. (proud of me? lol)

darn my html didn't work here! well, it is at this time, the front page story at www.worldnetdaily.com, and should be news everywhere, soon. He found she has been misdiagnosed, and I recall I am allowed to put a paragraph or so from an article, so here is a tiny bit.

"He found her facial expression brightens and she smiles in response to the voice of familiar people such as her parents or her nurse. Her agitation subsides and her facial demeanor softens when quiet music is played. "When jubilant piano music is played, her face brightens, she lifts her eyebrows, smiles, and even laughs." Cheshire said several times he witnessed Schiavo laugh when someone in the room made a humorous comment.

She fixates her gaze on colorful objects and human faces for up to 15 seconds at a time and occasionally follows with her eyes as objects move from side to side. "When I first walked into the room, she immediately turned her head toward me and looked directly at my face. There was a look of curiosity or expectation in her expression, and she maintained eye contact for about half a minute." Cheshire said she also appeared to attempt to speak to him."

Much more at the link.

[pzarquon]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

Well, while Terri's parents and the forces mobilized behind them have become experts at last ditch efforts, it shoud still be noted as significant that the Supreme Court has declined to intercede, again. Again as in the fifth time Terri's case has been offered up to them.

In a way, I'm disappointed the appeal was simply denied without comment, as again the ridiculous manner in which the case was revived and wrenched from the state courts will give constitutional scholars fits for years to come. Though, perhaps, no comment was the best comment - the matter doesn't even warrant debate, enough is enough.

Terri's parents are still beseeching the Florida state legislature to pass another emergency law... but this time, their goodwill has clearly been exhausted. Lawmakers there are reporting severe blowback from their much-cherished older constituents who are rightfully concerned over government muddling in their end-of-life affairs.

The "surprise witness" in this made for TV drama, the neurologist Karen notes, is all over the place now. And with Pres. Bush suddenly rendered ineffectual, it's clear that the new new strategy is to again attack the Florida state courts and a judge they say is "on a crusade" to kill Terri.

Yes, of course, the twenty or so courtrooms in this majority pro-life, Christian-dominated state (plus higher courts elsewhere) that have exhaustively mulled over this case are clearly part of a vast, evil conspiracy. Sheesh.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

Yup. They're all activist judges, thus to be reviled. It matters not that what the Republicans wanted when they passed the Saturday legislation was an activist Federal judge who'd override all the previous court decisions.

[Miulang]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

You know what's curious, too? Conservatives stand for personal freedom and freedom from needless intervention from the government and unnecessary laws.

Now they're talking more like---heaven forfend---LIBERALS...you know, the ones who believe in more laws rather than less!

I think the conservatives, rather than helping their cause, have actually hurt their cause and caused a huge rift within the Republican Party between the strict Constitutionalists and federalists (let the laws define what happens) v. the "culture of life" people who think it's OK for the legislative and executive branches of our US government to try to change what has clearly been defined as a state's right.

I'm sorry for the Schindler family and for Michael and Terri Schiavo that they have been dragged through the mud the way they have. But in this case, what would have been good for one (Terri Schiavo) would have been bad for all (as in, this would set all kinds of horrible precedents that no one wants to have to deal with down the road).

The Supreme Court of the US has now ruled x3 that this is not something they want to adjudicate. The Schindler family should just start saying their goodbyes to Terri now before she expires. Whenever that happens, that WILL
be determined by her God. And she will most certainly be in a better place then.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

The political fallout from this sad chapter of American life is starting to surface already.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

Here is a report from the Christian Science Monitor on what other countries would do if they had to grapple with the nuances of the Schiavo case.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Re: Terri Schiavo: Life, Death, Politics and Living Wills

Yup. They're all activist judges, thus to be reviled. It matters not that what the Republicans wanted when they passed the Saturday legislation was an activist Federal judge who'd override all the previous court decisions.

That's a really succinct way of putting it. "We don't want judges using their, you know, judgement... unless it favors us." And the David Espo/AP article Miulang linked was a good one. Just give 'em enough rope to hang themselves with. And I hadn't thought about the fallout this would have on the ongoing push to rewrite Senate rules to push Bush nominees through expected fillibuster attempts. Dare they abuse their power to get their way, again, so publicly?

Interesting times. Methinks Bush might have just squandered a bit too much of that "political capital" he so proudly bragged about not so long ago.

[Miulang]

Why is Terri Schiavo more important than Sun Hudson?

Who was Sun Hudson? A nobody. A poor little black, deformed baby whose mother only wanted to try to give her son a little time to mature. From the moment he was born, he was on life support. After a few months, thanks to the "Right to Die" bill the President signed in 1999, the hospital committee decided to pull the plug on the baby over the protests of his mother. Sun Hudson died within seconds of his ventilator being turned off.

The hospital also prevented the press from interviewing her, citing patient confidentiality, as she desperately tried to get anyone to listen to her pleas.

I strongly believe that when the President signed that 1999 Texas bill, he was acting as a conservative, wanting to spare the government from needless expense in what doctors deem a hopeless situation.

I don't think he was acting as a conservative in signing the House bill to step into the Schiavo case. I think in this case, he and all his "culture of life" cronies (including brother Jebbie, who has aspirations to running for President in 2008) were stepping into caca they will live to regret in 2006 and 2008. The moderate Republicans should seize this opportunity to bring reason back into their party, because their radical right wing is really doing them no favors with their delusional fervor. In the current political environment, you have to be white, well off (or at least middle class) and have connections in order to become a poster child for the right wingnuts.

If the "culture of life" proponents don't want to be called hypocrites, they'd better start advocating for saving ALL lives (not just the not-yet-born and white folk).

Miulang