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Thread: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 2

  1. #1
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

    One thing about Young Brothers versus the Superferry is that you have to schedule to deliver your car to YB's at least a week in advance and that your car could sit at the departing dock for sometimes three to four days with your car keys in the ignition of your unlocked unattended car.

    When I shipped my Minivan over to Hilo via YB it cost just over $200 and it took a total of one and a half weeks from drop off to pick up. The Superferry is pretty much the same day at a significant cost savings.

    By the way I chose a minivan when I went to Honolulu recently because a sedan wouldn't fit me, my wife and five of my children and luggage okay? And yes I had to go for the "extras" as you implied because of my family. Your thoughtful pricing also tells me I would have saved money with the superferry so thanks for that report, it adds even more justification for the success of the superferry.

    Regarding Helen's post and your rebuttal, if you've seen the condition of some of the cars coming off of YB's barges, I'd want to babysit my car to ensure it's safety. That's why when I shipped my BMW to Hilo from Honolulu I opted to pay the hefty charges and had my car palletized so it wouldn't be "driven" onto the barge and parked shoulder to shoulder to another car and get all dinged up in the process. And since the three or four hour trek on the superferry isn't like riding a YB barge, it's very comfortable and it gives a lot of islanders a different perspective on interisland travel by boat instead of in the air. You can get out on the upper deck and get some fresh air while walking around it's spaceous multi-deck, or check out the bar and have a comfortable drink instead of that drop down table in front of you.

    Yes the superferry won't come to Hilo making my use of it infrequent however the thought of being able to take my car to Honolulu as another option other than YB is quite reassuring especially if your car is on the docks and YB dock workers decide to go on strike.

    Mike McKenna was just an example of how you can fly to Honolulu and pick up a new or used car and drive it back to the neighbor islands. Car dealers on Oahu could use that in their advertising. Over here on the Big Island you pretty much got Orchard Isle Ford as the Ford dealer. You got a problem with the service manager there, then you got a problem with Ford service period. With the superferry you have another option available.

    Regarding pricing, your price observations pretty much indicates the cost savings by using the superferry, even with YB's discount on a Net 30 return it still cost as much if not more compared to the superferry. The difference is that you travel with your car. You drive on and you drive off. Your luggage is still in the trunk of your car. That's convenient and by your observations, you save money. I'm beginning to think you are a supporter of the superferry and not so much of a critic. Your arguements seem to support the financial gains of riding the superferry instead of flying and barging an automobile.

    With YB you drive your car to the dock, you catch a cab to the airport and you fly to the neighbor island. When you arrive at your new destination, you have to catch another cab to the Dollar Rentals to rent a car for the duration you have to wait for your car to arrive.

    You mention fumes, well have you ever had to wait in line at YB's receiving dock to drop off or pick up your car? I had my infant with me when I had to pick up my BMW and YB's dock is no place for infants with the noise, and exhausts belching from those big rigs and forklifts. I'll take the exhaust from cars waiting to leave the superferry anyday over standing in an easy-corner canopy in the open air lot of any of the docks on any island.

    If you are so concerned about the ecological impact of private vehicles being transported to another island, then why aren't you concerned about the simple fact that YB doesn't need an EIS when it transports private vehicles interisland? When I shipped both of my cars to Hilo via YB, no one checked for bugs or mold spores on or in my car or my minivan. When I picked both vehicles up in Hilo, there weren't any State Ag officers to inspect my cars, as a matter of fact you mention terrorist implications with the superferry? There were no TSA agents at YB's there either.

    The fact is this, picking up my car will be far easier and less stressful after a leisurely four hour ride on a wave hopping vessel enjoying the scenery to boot rather than making my way to YB and having to deal with the dock the way it is.

    You can be critical of the superferry and for all I care you can ship your car anyway you want but don't make your way the way for the rest of us who want an alternative. I hope the superferry succeeds, you don't, I want to use it, you don't. We do agree however that the superferry will save the consumer money albeit not a whole lot, but if you feel a few bucks isn't worth saving, I'll take those extra dollars from you so I can buy a plate lunch for that homeless guy less fortunate than I who does value a few dollars.

    You think there will be a problem with the environment? I don't. Am I an expert? No, are you? If Young Brothers, the State of Hawaii and you don't feel it's a problem to ship a car with it's (YB) barges then I see no problem with another vessel doing the same. Pollution? 500 automobiles leaving the dock at the same time? Impact on local traffic? Okay I'll agree there will be a problem there and I'm not blind to that negative impact, however if you want to save the earth, then don't drive, don't fly and for heaven's sake, live off the grid.

    To me common sense is if I have a car, then I'll use it rather than park it and drive somebody elses car and pay for it too! That's pretty logical to me, why have two when one will do. And when it comes to flying myself and barging my car, why hurry up and wait when you can leisurely get from point A to point b and have your car get there at the same time.

    I had an experience while in Maui: I was departing Kahului for Honolulu on Hawaiian Airlines. My luggage went on my scheduled flight but the ticket agent told me I could go on an earlier flight. I told her that I'd rather wait here on Maui in an air-conditioned lobby for my scheduled flight rather than (at the time the open air location) baggage claim in Honolulu where there were no comfortable seats to sit on.

    So big deal you get from Hilo to Honolulu three hours faster by jet than by superferry. What would you rather do, spend four hours relaxing in a spaceous cabin where you can walk around and get some fresh air or spend one hour in a cramped jet breathing recirculated air while the passenger reclines his seat onto your kneecaps, then having to drag your luggage off the baggage claim conveyor into a waiting shuttle bus to get to the rental car and drag it off again and into your rental. And oh by the way there's no guarantee that your luggage will be on the same flight as you so you may have to wait another hour before spending another hour getting your rental car. Hmmm that could pretty much eat up the time savings right there and I'll save a few dollars too!

    Yep drive on, relax for four hours, drive off and all without touching your luggage or having to endure the airport hassle or Young Brothers! Do what you want, I'll take the superferry!
    Last edited by craigwatanabe; March 27th, 2005 at 10:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Super Ferry financing in trouble

    http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacif...4/daily25.html

    Senate unlikely to OK $40 Mil for Superferry

    The Senate Committee on Ways and Means will not pass the $40 million budget allocation that would pay for harbor improvements to accommodate the Hawaii Superferry.

    Shan Tsutsui, the committee vice chairman, announced the news in a press release titled "Superferry Sinking."

    "One of my main concerns is that the state Department of Transportation has provided senators including myself limited information about infrastructure, parking, and other logistics relevant to the implementation of the Superferry."
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  3. #3
    waioli kai Guest

    Default Superferry Sinking

    Aaron "....Superferry Sinking..."

    That won't stop "Superferry Chapter 2" from being born from the ashes the initial superferry thread in Route 808. A phantom ship perhaps?
    Last edited by waioli kai; April 5th, 2005 at 06:11 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Super Ferry financing in trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron S
    http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacif...4/daily25.html

    Senate unlikely to OK $40 Mil for Superferry

    The Senate Committee on Ways and Means will not pass the $40 million budget allocation that would pay for harbor improvements to accommodate the Hawaii Superferry.

    Shan Tsutsui, the committee vice chairman, announced the news in a press release titled "Superferry Sinking."
    I hope all of you liberal minded, environmental windbags are jumping for joy at this news. Yes, you narrow minded folks are pretty much on track in killing another economic option that business could have offered Hawaii's people.

    Killing the Superferry like raising taxes only cements Hawaii's dismal reputation as being a totally anti-business state. Pathetic.

    Rejoice SuperFerry haters. Your dreams are coming true...
    ________________________________

    Caution: This is a liberal inundation zone.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Super Ferry financing in trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by mel
    I hope all of you liberal minded, environmental windbags are jumping for joy at this news.
    Speaking as one liberal-minded environmental windbag, I'm pretty bummed. But as I said before when the whole EIS thing started bubbling, the fact that neither the company nor, now, the state seem to have a very good idea of what they're doing, the problems are not surprising. I want the Hawaii Superferry more than just about everyone I know, and I'm incredibly annoyed that the planners are doing a half-assed job beyond good marketing.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 2

    <sigh> I guess you can blame the politicians on Maui and Kauai for sinking the ferry, then. Since Shari Tsutsui is from Maui, and the county council there still is insisting on an EIS, Maui is to blame.

    Funny thing, though. About 6 weeks ago, the DOT had come up with an alternative (parking a barge at the end of the pier that could be used as a pier extension) that they said wouldn't require an EIS because it wasn't a permanent facility, and wouldn't impact anyone else's access to the facilities...what happened to that proposal?

    I can understand the local Maui people's concern about the impact of the large volumes of extra traffic in the pier area of Kahului. It's bad enough now with just regular traffic, period. Having another 2-300 cars disembarking at the same time and putting an additional load on the Hana Hwy would be pretty disagreeable. The road leading to the pier they want to use has a stoplight at the Hana Hwy entrance (across from Maui Mall), but it's a short road, so that light would have to stay green for quite awhile to let all the ferry traffic off. That would piss off the hundreds of other drivers who are trying to get from upcountry or Paia to Wailuku on Hana Hwy.

    I suppose over time, Maui locals would learn to avoid that area when the ferry was scheduled to arrive; that's kind of what we do up here now, when those Alaska cruise boats disembark on Alaska Way and create a humungous traffic problem. We just avoid that area completely. So the businesses in Maui Mall might benefit from the "tourist" traffic, but the residents would stay away.


    Miulang

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    Funny thing, though. About 6 weeks ago, the DOT had come up with an alternative (parking a barge at the end of the pier that could be used as a pier extension) that they said wouldn't require an EIS because it wasn't a permanent facility, and wouldn't impact anyone else's access to the facilities...what happened to that proposal?
    I have no idea, and I really didn't know much about it, but I remember thinking at the time that it sounded like a stretch to squeeze through a loophole somewhere. "Rather than doing it right and building {x}, let's just drive right over a vessel that's already parked there!" It sounded like a bad idea, if only because it adds yet another fallible part to the already iffy infrastructure.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 2

    If Maui has a problem with the Super Ferry, then for now why not just bypass that island? Once the Maui sees the viable economic impact it's missing out on I'm sure they (the people of Maui) will weigh that in at the next election.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 2

    Sen. Tsutsui raises a good point that should be addressed, although I sure hope it's not a deal-breaker. The Hawaii Business News article said:

    This time, the lack of information from the state, especially in divulging the details of an operating plan between Hawaii Superferry and the state seems to have prompted the reaction. The DOT expected to have finalized a plan April 1, but hasn't made public its plans yet.
    In order for the ferry to operate, the harbors have got to put in a bunch of capital improvements, to be paid for with our tax dollars (any objections there Mel? ). It's a little unsettling that DOT is asking for $40 million without details on exactly what the money's going to be used for. Like pzarquon said, it seems kind of half-assed for DOT not to have argued a better case to the Legislature.
    Last edited by Glen Miyashiro; April 6th, 2005 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Oops! It's Senator, not Representative.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Miyashiro
    Sen. Tsutsui raises a good point that should be addressed, although I sure hope it's not a deal-breaker. The Hawaii Business News article said:

    In order for the ferry to operate, the harbors have got to put in a bunch of capital improvements, to be paid for with our tax dollars (any objections there Mel? ). It's a little unsettling that DOT is asking for $40 million without details on exactly what the money's going to be used for. Like pzarquon said, it seems kind of half-assed for DOT not to have argued a better case to the Legislature.
    I think the bulk of the money would have to go to upgrading Maui's infrastructure, though, because I think that's the pier that will be impacted most by the Superferry, other than that H-4 thingie they're building on Oahu.

    Miulang

  11. #11
    waioli kai Guest

    Default $40 million for a military transport

    Miulang,

    Following is a letter to the editor at Maui News. How much do you think the US Military is a driving force behind Hawaii Superferry, Inc. ? After H-3, the multi-billion$ highway from one US military base to another, what are neighbor islanders to expect, in reality, from the proposed "H-4" ? While Big Island US Military ops have recently been substancially enhanced, the DLNR and County of Kauai have recently granted US Military a 6000 acre so-called "buffer zone" dedicated to US Military adjacent to Pacific Missile Range Facility. Seems that, as usual, when it comes to US Military no pretext, no costs, for ever greater militarization of Hawaii is out of bounds.

    - - - - - - - - - - -
    - - - - - -

    Maui News, Letters to Editor, Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:57 PM

    Hawaii Superferry plan has other customers in mind for transport

    Why are the taxpayers of Hawaii paying $40 million for a military transport? Oh, you all thought that the Superferry was going to take “us” to other islands? No, we can only go to Oahu. To go to the Big Island, we have to pay double and spend the night on Oahu. Only the people on Oahu can go to all the islands directly.

    The new investor in the Superferry is a military specialist tasked with coordinating the military use of the Superferry for convoys. Think regular people will be able to be on the ferry when the military uses it?

    We’re paying our tax dollars so Maui Land & Pineapple Co. can have a subsidy shipping their pineapple, and so the military won’t have to show their transport cost in the armed forces budget.

    The Superferry isn’t for us, but we’re paying, and not only in dollars.

    Jodi Taylor

    Wailuku

    - - - - - - - - - - -
    - - - - - -

    Hopefully our Hawaii legislators have the wisdom, courage and ability to do what is best for the longterm civilian benefit of Hawaii.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: $40 million for a military transport

    Quote Originally Posted by waioli kai
    How much do you think the US Military is a driving force behind Hawaii Superferry, Inc. ? After H-3, the multi-billion$ highway from one US military base to another, what are neighbor islanders to expect, in reality, from the proposed "H-4" ?
    Waioli, are you suggesting that having the military use the ferry would be detrimental to the civilian public using it as well? Yes, the routes of H-1 through H-3 were planned all for military purposes too:

    H-1 connects Fort Ruger, Pearl Harbor, Hickam AFB, and (the former) Barbers Point NAS.
    H-2 connects Pearl/Hickam and Schofield Barracks.
    H-3 connects Pearl/Hickam and MCBH Hawai'i.

    And yet, I haven't heard anyone complain about the military's use of these roads.

    What's your point?
    Last edited by Glen Miyashiro; April 8th, 2005 at 09:59 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: $40 million for a military transport

    Quote Originally Posted by waioli kai
    Miulang,

    Following is a letter to the editor at Maui News. How much do you think the US Military is a driving force behind Hawaii Superferry, Inc. ? After H-3, the multi-billion$ highway from one US military base to another, what are neighbor islanders to expect, in reality, from the proposed "H-4" ? While Big Island US Military ops have recently been substancially enhanced, the DLNR and County of Kauai have recently granted US Military a 6000 acre so-called "buffer zone" dedicated to US Military adjacent to Pacific Missile Range Facility. Seems that, as usual, when it comes to US Military no pretext, no costs, for ever greater militarization of Hawaii is out of bounds.
    ...

    Hopefully our Hawaii legislators have the wisdom, courage and ability to do what is best for the longterm civilian benefit of Hawaii.
    Hmm...good question, Waioli. Maui doesn't have much of a "military presence" in the way that Oahu has Pearl Harbor and Kauai has Barking Sands and the Big Isle will have those Stryker training areas. At least none that I know of. We have the government outposts on top of Haleakala, but nothing recently has been mentioned about beefing up military presence on Maui. If Garibaldi's expertise was in military transportation, then what the letter writer was implying might make sense everywhere except on Maui (hell, the Navy gave back Kahoolawe to the County, unexploded munitions and all!).

    Heh. Maui is too busy courting "high end tourists" to want to pursue additional military buildup!

    Miulang

  14. #14
    waioli kai Guest

    Default military buildup

    "Maui is too busy courting 'high end tourists' to want to pursue additional military buildup!" --Miulang

    I'm not aware that any Hawaii island (either residents or their county and state legislators) is pursuing additional military buildup. US Military is an entity unto itself; it is doing the pursuing. Similarly, Superferry, Inc. is doing the pursuing, not Hawaii residents or legislators.
    Last edited by waioli kai; April 8th, 2005 at 10:33 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: military buildup

    Quote Originally Posted by waioli kai
    "Maui is too busy courting 'high end tourists' to want to pursue additional military buildup!" --Miulang

    I'm not aware that any Hawaii island (either residents or their county and state legislators) is pursuing additional military buildup. US Military is an entity unto itself; it is doing the pursuing. Similarly, Superferry, Inc. is doing the pursuing, not Hawaii residents or legislators.
    Put it this way: the available land that the military might want to annex would not be given up without a big fight; and most of the terrain they might want to use for training is jungle (like over on the East side), so unless we go back to SE Asia, Maui won't be seeing any military training camps, either.

    Besides, according to a story about the sinking of the Superferry in the Maui News yesterday, Sen. Tsutsui seemed to indicate that even though the Garibaldi boat might sail away, there are other companies interested in pursuing the idea. What Garibaldi may be doing with his threat that without State assistance, his financing wouldn't work out, is just trying to use blackmail on an emotional topic for local people. And the Maui County Council is one of a very few bodies that decided to slow the process down with an EIS.

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; April 8th, 2005 at 01:24 PM.

  16. #16
    waioli kai Guest

    Default on clicking 'preview' , all is gone, too often

    For what ever reason, and certainly for not the first time in these threads an entire writing session on clicking 'preview' turns into an 'error-report' deletion sequence, all is gone.

  17. #17
    waioli kai Guest

    Default connect military bases... just in case

    Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii?
    Author: Ryan

    This question is a classic, a staple of joke lists, and most recently the ponderable punch line of a national Volkswagen television ad. Unfortunately, the answer isn't nearly as funny as the question.

    There are three major interstate highways in Hawaii, creatively named H-1, H-2, and H-3, and a little-known fourth, H-201. They are called "interstates" because they are all part of the national network of interstate highways — technically the The Dwight D. Eisenhower System of Interstate and National Defense Highways — and were built with the same funds and built to generally the same specifications.

    H-1 is 27.1 miles long and runs from Makakilo at Farrington Highway (Hawaii State Route 93) to Kahala at Kalanianaole Highway (Hawaii State Route 72).

    H-2 is 8.3 miles long and runs from Pearl City to Wahiawa at Wilikina Drive (Hawaii State Route 99) — near Schofield Barracks and Wheeler Army Airfield.

    H-3 is 15.3 miles long and runs from Pearl Harbor to the main gate for Marine Corps Base Hawaii in Kaneohe.

    H-201 is 4.1 miles long and runs from H-1 near Aiea to H-1 entering urban Honolulu. Often described as Hawaii's "secret interstate," a great deal of information on this loop can be found here at roadgeek site Kurumi.com.

    As you might have inferred from the official name of this highway network, the prevalence of military facilities located at the ends is no coincidence. While these roads are used primarily by civilians, the idea was to have a uniform, efficient network of high-speed roads to connect military bases... just in case. So, for example, hills and dips along most interstate highways aren't supposed to get too steep, curves aren't supposed to get too sharp, onramps and offramps are usually above or below the highway (allowing easier control of access), and so on.

    It bears noting that H-3 is the most expensive interstate highway ever built, at a cost of over $1.5 billion ($100 million per mile). It had many critics, and quite of few of them pointed out how little it was needed by island residents. Of course, it wasn't being built for them: as noted above, it was built to connect the Marine Corps base to the U.S. Navy port at Pearl Harbor.

    There is a great deal of trivia associated with the interstate highway system, and not surprisingly, Hawaii's entries are oddities. Interstate H-201, the "secret interstate," broke all sorts of rules. Other examples? In the national freeway system, even numbers (I-4 in Florida) are for highways which are primarily east-west routes, and odd numbers (I-97 in Maryland) are for highways which are primarily north-south. All Hawaii interstates run counter to this "rule." Other exceptions include the fact that H-1 has many at-grade (not raised or lowered) onramps and offramps, has ramps that do interfere with the flow of through traffic, and has ramps closer than one mile apart, all much to the chagrin of daily communters.

    (all above from) www.hawaiianswers.com/index.php?page=index_v2&id=26&c=19

    *****

    Two things that define US Military above most all else: to provide a sense of securUSy through redundancy, and, to provide such a sense of securUSy what ever the cost$, especially when others are paying.

    H-4 would be just another layer of redundancy for US Military... a "just in case" some speedier interisland delivery of munitions, personnel, missile fuels or any militarUSt thing is requested for empire maintenance activities that Young Brothers, Matson or available militarUSt forcUS cannot perform in a time frame mandated by unexpected events, paranoias and/or just militarUSt whims and passions.
    Last edited by waioli kai; April 9th, 2005 at 12:39 AM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 2

    Residents want superferry,survey says
    Allison Schaefers, Honolulu Star-Bulletin, Tuesday, April 26, 2005
    Most state residents support an interisland ferry service and the use of state funding for harbor improvements, according to a new survey commissioned by Hawaii Superferry Inc. The telephone survey, conducted this month by Honolulu firm Market Trends Pacific, found that 86 percent of participants said they want high-speed ferry service. As many as 87 percent also approve the use of state funds for harbor improvements to accommodate the planned Hawaii Superferry.
    I got called for this survey! Sadly, it was another "push poll," like the one I got for Dalton Tanonaka. Which is to say, it started off sounding like a poll, but by the middle of it the pollster was reading, literally, paragraphsof text written by Hawaii SuperFerry, extolling its virtues and specifically countering the criticisms its received.

    Mind you, I was very pro ferry, anyway, but when the pollster asked for a degree of concern for the environment, I made the mistake of saying "some concern" (since I was, after all, a Sierra Club and Nature Conservancy member). That was a trigger, and she proceeded to hard sell me on it. I put the phone down, went to get a drink, came back, and she was still telling me about how the environment would not be adversely impacted.

    "Given this new information, do you stillhave concerns about the ferry's impact on the island environment?"

    "Er, no."

    Mission accomplished, I guess, and another "pro" vote for their skewed survey statistics.

    A pity this company is bumbling along like this. The ferry should sell itself, but poor planning and iffy marketing practices are really rubbing some folks the wrong way.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 2

    http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=3429

    Lawmakers have $40M for ferry in budget
    The $8.9 billion state budget is finalized
    Associated Press



    State lawmakers completed work late last night finalizing figures in the state’s two-year budget — including $40 million to help fund an interisland ferry system.

    Conference committee members passed the budget after going through the massive document line by line.

    The finished $8.9 billion budget is key to figuring out what else can be done this session. Pushing toward the final few weeks of the session, lawmakers have held off decision making on a number of bills, awaiting word on the amount of money they will have to work with.
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