Comments on the Akaka Bill?

[timkona]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Miulang, your logic reminds me of a moebius strip. In the same sentence you say that I am in the majority, AND not in the majority. You are so fun. So if I'm not the majority in Hawaii, do I qualify for some special program based on my freckled skin color?

Racism exists in YOUR life a lot more than mine. Racism exists a lot more in Hawaii than in SF Bay Area. Racism is slowly dying as the races interbreed in our modern age of jet travel. Racism is a tool that the ignorant use to deflect criticism. Racism is imaginary, and intentionally taught to children, so as to pass it on from generation to generation. Teaching children to be racists is child abuse, and should be dealt with by CPS. Racism is rooted in ego-mania. Strom Thurmond used the same arguments 50 years ago against black folks that some people use today to justify entitlement.

Times change. Some people don't. At least Thurmond softened in his old age.

As far as school goes, my daughter is doing better than many of her classmates. It's a testament to the long hours spent reading, and playing math games with her over the last 4 years. I do teach my daughter to have high self esteem, rooted in accomplishment and merit. She has no sense of entitlement, and certainly none of the negative energy associated with racism.

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Miulang, your logic reminds me of a moebius strip. In the same sentence you say that I am in the majority, AND not in the majority. You are so fun. So if I'm not the majority in Hawaii, do I qualify for some special program based on my freckled skin color?

Racism exists in YOUR life a lot more than mine. Racism exists a lot more in Hawaii than in SF Bay Area. Racism is slowly dying as the races interbreed in our modern age of jet travel. Racism is a tool that the ignorant use to deflect criticism. Racism is imaginary, and intentionally taught to children, so as to pass it on from generation to generation. Teaching children to be racists is child abuse, and should be dealt with by CPS. Racism is rooted in ego-mania. Strom Thurmond used the same arguments 50 years ago against black folks that some people use today to justify entitlement.

Times change. Some people don't. At least Thurmond softened in his old age.

So are you teaching your beautiful daughter that she's no better than the poorest kid in her class? And racism is not worse in Hawai'i then anywhere on CONUS. Tell that to the 20+ people in LA who got mowed down by the cops just for attending a march on May 1 for immigration rights. Tell that to the NBA players who studies have shown are penalized more for fouls than their white teammates.

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Even if the Akaka Bill passes,...I think the original Akaka Bill would have given parity to the kanaka maoli more than this current version does; right now if this bill passed, it would give the kanaka maoli fewer rights than the ones the Native American tribes have via their treaties, so the kanaka maoli would only preserve what they currently have but get no more, and they do deserve more than what they are getting now.

Miulang

It is hotly contested that "Native Hawaiian preservation opportunities" would be protected, promoted, etc under *any* form of US federal legislation. As it stands now, those federally-funded programs are NOT based on ethnic or quantum requirements. (NHHA, NHEA). The organizations who apply for such funding do not have to be NH to apply, and the beneficiaries of their programs do NOT have to be NH. The impetus upon them is to track the results and progress of such programs and must include advancement of NH culture, language, and health--not ethnicity.

The question begs: how would an 800-watts line to DC for a "kanaka office" if you will, save "Hawaiian programs"? Navajos are federally recognized, lobbied hard, and yet lost Head Start funding (and have you been to Navajo territory recently? Talk about, well, let's not go there) which is a shame, considering their stats.

And I am not the only one who believes that becoming like the Native Americans is a helluva step backwards, on a logistical level.

I think the original Akaka Bill would have given parity to the kanaka maoli

I have asked before, and I will ask again....

What is IT that naturally prevents kanaka maoli from attaining parity??

nothing does. Let's be honest: the public assumes that the majority of funding is driven by the assumption of the "deficit model"-- first they gotta suck, so the government is obliging itself to help them. But legislated funding does not follow this model, as I mentioned above about the funding cycle. The public doesn't seem to understand that they (we) are out of touch with what the reality is.

[Jonah K]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Racism exists in YOUR life a lot more than mine. Racism exists a lot more in Hawaii than in SF Bay Area. Racism is slowly dying as the races interbreed in our modern age of jet travel. Racism is a tool that the ignorant use to deflect criticism. Racism is imaginary, and intentionally taught to children, so as to pass it on from generation to generation. Teaching children to be racists is child abuse, and should be dealt with by CPS. Racism is rooted in ego-mania. Strom Thurmond used the same arguments 50 years ago against black folks that some people use today to justify entitlement.

Times change. Some people don't. At least Thurmond softened in his old age.

Strom Thurmond's daughter, Essie Mae Washington-Williams, probably had something to do with his "softening" and she was born before the "modern age of jet travel."

[timkona]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

It is truly refreshing, Pua'i, to hear somebody else agree that nothing prevents Hawaiians from attaining parity. Your positive view of Hawaiians and their ability to achieve anything in their lives is the kind of motivation that we need more of in this state. The entitlement mentality, and its' 'defecit model' is a joke when you presume that an entire race of people "gotta suck".

I spend a lot of my life telling children that they can be awesome at everything. Especially football.

[Konaguy]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

You can bet the bank on this one, I would fight tooth and nail if there wasany attempt to break Hawaii from the United States. I really strongly believe
it would be selfish on the part of Hawaiians to do such a thing. What about all the other racial groups that live here ? Are we expected to pack up and
leave if/when this happens ?

In my case it would be very hard to do the latter. Especially since I was born and raised here in Kona. I have no connection to the mainland whatsoever.
Except just visiting over there a handful of times. In short, the mainland is not for me. Even though, I'm a haole I have a deep physical/spiritual connection to Hawaii.

Yes the Hawaiians have been wronged. During my life living here, I have seen that up close and personal. But like I said, I don't believe breaking away from
the United States is the answer, nor is the Akaka bill.

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

You can bet the bank on this one, I would fight tooth and nail if there wasany attempt to break Hawaii from the United States. I really strongly believe
it would be selfish on the part of Hawaiians to do such a thing. What about all the other racial groups that live here ? Are we expected to pack up and
leave if/when this happens ?

In my case it would be very hard to do the latter. Especially since I was born and raised here in Kona. I have no connection to the mainland whatsoever.
Except just visiting over there a handful of times. In short, the mainland is not for me. Even though, I'm a haole I have a deep physical/spiritual connection to Hawaii.

Yes the Hawaiians have been wronged. During my life living here, I have seen that up close and personal. But like I said, I don't believe breaking away from
the United States is the answer, nor is the Akaka bill.

As far as I know, none of the proposals I've seen from the sovereignty groups says anything about expelling non-Hawaiians or taking away land that they own. They would become citizens of the country and could choose dual citizenship if they wanted, so don't pack your bags yet, Aaron.

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

As far as I know, none of the proposals I've seen from the sovereignty groups says anything about expelling non-Hawaiians or taking away land that they own. They would become citizens of the country and could choose dual citizenship if they wanted, so don't pack your bags yet, Aaron.

Miulang

Well one of the many things I've learned in my life, there is no guarantees.In other words, no one knows what will happen for sure if/when it happens.Just imagine if one of the hardline sovereignty groups gain control

I've listened and read many people talk about breaking away from the United States. Frankly the thought really frightens the living daylights out me. As I believe it would be a huge step backwards for Hawaii.

Like what Sen. Inouye said in regards to breaking away from the United States, he said "the Civil War has resolved the issue." . It would not be a very positive thing to Hawaii turn into another Fiji.

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Like what Sen. Inouye said in regards to breaking away from the United States, he said "the Civil War has resolved the issue." . It would not be a very positive thing to Hawaii turn into another Fiji.

As some sovereignty proponents would say, Hawai'i technically could secede because in 1893, the monarchy was overthrown by the US government. It did not willingly become a territory of its own accord. To back that up, the US Congress officially apologized in 1993 for the overthrow and acknowledged that the federal government was wrong to annex Hawai'i.

So even though the majority of Territorial residents voted for statehood in 1959, the sovereignty people claim that they couldn't really have voted to become part of the Union because they never willingly joined the Union in the first place; in other words, you can't secede if you never were a part of it in the first place.

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

As some sovereignty proponents would say, Hawai'i technically could secede because in 1893, the monarchy was overthrown by the US government. It did not willingly become a territory of its own accord. To back that up, the US Congress officially apologized in 1993 for the overthrow and acknowledged that the federal government was wrong to annex Hawai'i.

So even though the majority of Territorial residents voted for statehood in 1959, the sovereignty people claim that they couldn't really have voted to become part of the Union because they never willingly joined the Union in the first place; in other words, you can't secede if you never were a part of it in the first place.

I believe too many people are living in the past is the real problem here. Yes the monarchy was overthrown in 1893. But really what does that have to do with anything in present day ?

I think the real question here is are we better off being a part of the United States or being independent ? I think we are better off being a part of the US. As far as I recall in mid to late 1800's other countries tried to make a play for Hawaii . If Hawaii became independent again history will repeat itself.

[waioli kai]

capitalUSt$' expropriating then overthrowing Hawai'i and subjugating Hawai'ians

.

-- "I've listened and read many people talk about breaking away from the United States. Frankly the thought really frightens the living daylights out me. As I believe it would be a huge step backwards for Hawaii." --kguy

"...a huge step backwards" ... that would be funny, but coming from white guys of CONUS it's nauseatingly expected since that mindset is of the belief that capitalUSt$' expropriating then overthrowing Hawai'i and subjugating Hawai'ians was a huge step forward for the archipeligo and its indigenous inhabitants.

Why don't these CONUS white guys (the most recent sample of ten Republican presidential candidates "debating" is a perfect show of such mentality) in Hawaii ever pick up on the fact that in Hawaii, wherein is the greatest racial diversity of any U.S. state, it is only the white men (and usually only the well off white men at that) who complain about their being picked on and unfairly discriminated against by other racial groups in Hawaii?

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

I think the real question here is are we better off being a part of the United States or being independent ? I think we are better off being a part of the US. As far as I recall in mid to late 1800's other countries tried to make a play for Hawaii . If Hawaii became independent again history will repeat itself.

No one who is alive can answer that question, Aaron, because all of us have been born since 1893, so we only know for sure what we have lived. But I would hope that if Hawai'i did become a sovereign nation again that its leaders would be akamai enough NOT to let the same things happen again this time, not from the US, or Japan, or Russia, or Portugal or Spain.

Miulang

[Keanu]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

So even though the majority of Territorial residents voted for statehood in 1959, the sovereignty people claim that they couldn't really have voted to become part of the Union because they never willingly joined the Union in the first place.

Miulang

Exactly!

To expand a bit on the Statehood vote, any U.S. citizen who had resided in the islands for a year was allowed to vote, which included large numbers of American military servicemen and their families, who were essentially the occupation force that had illegally held Hawaii since the unlawful annexation in 1898.

Native Hawaiians would not have been allowed to vote if they refused to become American citizens. Immigrants from other countries who were not American citizens were not allowed to vote. It is foolish to think that the outcome of the vote would be anything other than what is was.

[Keanu]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

I believe too many people are living in the past is the real problem here.

I'll have to disagree. The real problem is ignorance.

[Konaguy]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

But I would hope that if Hawai'i did become a sovereign nation again that its leaders would be akamai enough NOT to let the same things happen again this time, not from the US, or Japan, or Russia, or Portugal or Spain.

That is the million dollar question. Queen Liliuokalani 's monarchy could not prevent the overthrow. I highly doubt an independent Hawaii would have the military might to prevent a Russia, Japan, etc from scooping us up. Unless the independent Hawaiian government had self defense agreement with the US.