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Thread: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

  1. #1

    Default i would like some comments on the Akaka bill please

    Hello i am a Native Hawaiian College student in Chico, California. I am currently writting a thesis paper on the akaka bill i have done lots of research on this bill as well as the history of dispossesion my people have experienced what i do not have is other Hawaiians thoughts and opinons on the Akaka bill and i am putting this out there with out the predjudice of my own opinion. so i am asking everyone to reply and let me know "What do YOU think of the Akaka bill?"

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    I say pass it. And move on.

    We have more to lose without it than we have to gain with it. The one thing it squelches is full and complete independence -- but it's hard to lose something you couldn't realistically ever have.

    But what the hell do I know? Here are arguments for, and arguments against.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    Here is more against the Akaka Bill http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansovereignty/
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

  4. #4

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    Thank you for the pro and con argument websites but i have already seen these websites and have read nearly everything online pertaining to this bill. what i want to know is how do you think it will effect Native Hawaiians and do you think it will acheive the formation of a Hawaiian Nation? or is this another ploy by the U.S. government?


    Thank you to those who have replyed please continue to do so your comments are much appreciated!!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    I'm not sure, but it sounds as if you have a position in mind already ("the history of dispossesion my people have experienced"), and hence probably a clear idea of what you want to hear. I'm certain you can find it if you make it more clear. In other words, are you looking for people to bolster/reinforce that position or to provide "counterpoints" that you can then address and dismiss?

    Further, are you seeking the input of Native Hawaiians, or any person with an interest in the island (non-Hawaiian residents, or even former residents now living on the Mainland or abroad)? I don't know how many self-described Native Hawaiians populate this forum. There are other message boards on the web dedicated to Native Hawaiian culture that might prove more fruitful.
    how do you think it will effect Native Hawaiians and do you think it will acheive the formation of a Hawaiian Nation? or is this another ploy by the U.S. government?
    Interesting way to phrase the question. Well, I don't believe the Akaka Bill will "achieve the formation of a Hawaiian Nation" by design (specifically mooting claims to full independence), so if that's what someone wants, the Akaka Bill ain't the way to go. I imagine everyone who wants an independent Hawaiian nation already knows this.

    As for it being "another ploy by the U.S. government"? Well, as it is a bill before Congress, I suppose you could say it definitely is, insofar as any action by the government is a "ploy."

  6. #6

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    well pzarquon that is what i was looking for! I want opinons. I am biased and I was not trying to use my bias in this but looks like mission was not accomplished. too bad but I do want opinons pro and con

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    To me all it symbolizes is anoother bubble to fill out when taking a test, Instead of having to mark Asian Oacific islander we'll have our own little bubble.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    The Hawai'i delegation to Congress now believes that that Akaka Bill has the best chance of passing, IF the concerns that a letter from the Justice Dept. outlined are remedied through modifications of the current bill. If the changes are made to the Bill, it would essentially water down the law so much that the kanaka maoli would get even less than their InDN brothers got through their treaty agreements 150 years ago.

    Two of the four issues are particularly onerous:

    If the amended bill passes, the kanaka maoli would have no say over where military bases could be built on their land, and the second more onerous provision says that the kanaka maoli could not engage in gambling as a way to support themselves. I don't gamble, but I know the tribes up here who have casinos do a booming business and are able to generate enough money to raise the standard of living for their people. By forcing this change to the bill, it will take away from the kanaka maoli a way for them to become self-sufficient. Same old same old white paternalistic BS: "Let us take care of you."

    The whole intent of the self-determination movement in Hawai'i is to allow the kanaka maoli to regain some of the rights they lost in 1898. If the bill is watered down in the way the government wants, it'll be as useful as the paper on which it's printed.

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; July 14th, 2005 at 06:03 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    I don't see any reason why the "Native Hawaiians" recognized by this bill should be subject to restrictions that "Native Americans" are not.

    So why can't they open a casino on their Hawaiian Reservation?

    (Only slightly tongue-in-cheek.)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: i would like some comments on the Akaka bill please

    Quote Originally Posted by Pualeilani
    "What do YOU think of the Akaka bill?"
    thot i posted this but guess not:

    Based on the information I have at this time, and as a kama'aina, I am against the Akaka bill for these reasons:

    The Akaka bill makes the Department of the Interior the lead agency responsible for all policies that affect Native Hawaiian resources, rights and lands..

    The Department of the Interior has been deemed an "unfit trustee" by a US federal court and its lead officials cited for contempt of court by a federal judge. Over 40 million acres and about $137 billion are missing right now in Indian assets. I do not believe kama'aina wants that to happen to Hawaiian lands and money.

    In the last 5 years, officials of the department have destroyed documents, disobeyed court orders, and lied to the court, repeatedly in cases that seek to account for Indian money and land for which the Department of the interior is responsible. For court papers and documentation see www.indiantrust.com

    The Akaka bill requires the Hawaiian constitution to contain language that gives the officials of the governing entity the authority to permanently settle Hawaiian claims for reparations, reinstated independence, land, damages from the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii, and all other Hawaiian claims without the approval of Hawaiian voters.

    What this means is; so-called leaders of a Native Hawaiian governing entity under the Akaka bill can decide basic issues that affect the kanaka maoli and their 'ohana directly, such as receiving money for damages relating to stolen land and the illegal overthrow. Additonally, kanaka maoli will not be allowed to say a single word about the decisions these new bureaucrats will make for them.

    The Akaka bill installs a racial definition of "Hawaiian" where no such definition ever existed in Hawaii outside of U.S. law.

    In other words, foreigners will "help" Hawaiians decide who is Hawaiian and who isn't. Would you want strangers to have that power?

    The Akaka bill defines Hawaiians living today as the descendants of pre western contact aboriginal native people rather than descendants; subjects of the kingdom of Hawaii, severely damaging Hawaiian's rights to land title in the Hawaiian Islands. Federal law limits the rights of aboriginal people to the right to use and occupy land but not to own it or sell it as aboriginal people . A blanket claims settlement will end even these limited rights as it has for scores of tribes since 1970.

    What this means is that Hawaiians will, in effect, be saying to the US federal government, "you were right to come in and overthrow our Queen.You may have all our land that you stole. We don't want it back. You know what's best for Hawaiians more than Hawaiians do. And we give up forever our right to sue the US government if it doesn't keep its word with Hawaiians."

    The Akaka bill makes restored Hawaiian independence unlawful. Title 25 of the United States code prohibits Indian Tribes, and federally recognized Alaskans and Hawaiians by extension, from being recognized as independent Nations: 25 USC chapter 3 subchapter I Sec 71: "No Indian nation or tribe within the territory of the United States shall be acknowledged or recognized as an independent nation, tribe, or power. . ."

    Stop and think - can you name even one Indian tribe than received US federal recognition and then went on to become independent ? You can not, because it never happened! The reason the US government wants to pass the Akaka bill is to try to stop Hawaiian rights in its tracks!

    The Akaka bill creates a permanent political relationship in which Hawaiians are subordinate to the United States forever.
    Under the Akaka bill, Hawaiians will have the legal status of wards of the US federal government. Did you know that prisoners currently incarcerated in US federal prisons are also wards of the US federal government? Hawaiians do not see themselves as criminals. Why would Hawaiians want to be lumped in the same legal classification with them? They will be under the Akaka bill!

    Finally, the Akaka bill will ensure litigation in courts in the years ahead caused by a poor definition of the rights Hawaiians can expect under US federal law.

    If you think lawsuits are coming fast and furious at Hawaiians now, just wait! Hawaiians will be forced to spend enormous amounts of money to defend their so-called "rights" in the Akaka bill if it passes. And guess where those suits will eventually end up? That's right, in the hands of an increasingly anti-Indian, and therefore anti-Hawaiian US Supreme Court.

    The Akaka bill does not guarantee that Hawaiian federal entitlements will be protected.

    When was the last time Hawaiians trusted US bureaucrats to do the right thing for Hawaiians and the US actually did it?

    The US federal government is trying to contain Hawaiians just like they did a century ago by saying then, "you'd better accept annexation because it's the best deal you're going to get." They were lying to Hawaiians then and they are lying now!

    Did it turn out to be a good deal? Have Hawaiians gotten their nation and lands back?
    Not on your life. The Akaka Bill is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
    Last edited by kimo55; July 14th, 2005 at 10:40 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    Reparations could have been easily taken care of via the addition of Casino gambling. This bill doesnt allow it.

    The Native American Indians have reaped the benefits of casino gambling on the mainland, I think at least 47 states have casino gambling on Indian land in one form or the other. In Phoenix literally there are casino gambling conducted in large constructed teepees if that isnt stereotypical I dont know what is!

    One of these days casino gambling will come to the islands and I hope its limited to say Lanai, so everyone is forced to spend money to fly or take a boat there, which would slightly lessen the impulse people would have say had Oahu or Maui having one.

    KalihiBoy

  12. #12

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    If the kanaka maoli were allowed to build casinos on their ceded land, would people from Hawai'i need to travel to Lost Wages as often? I mean, think of how much money the State could keep in Hawai'i from people not having to fly to LV and stay in hotels! The kanaka maoli might even be generous and give the State some of the revenues (like an eency amount for taxes on their revenue).

    It would be a win-win-win situation: the kanaka maoli would be able to generate revenues to help their own people, the State could get some tax money (only if the kanaka maoli were in a generous mood), and the gamblers could spend at least another 600-$1000 right at home instead of in LV. With Trump coming to town and that new circus in Waikiki, you have the beginnings of another Sin City! Mainland tourists would eat it up! Just don't give the liquor inspectors handguns.

    Miulang

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    Remember: "What happens in Hawai'i, stays in Hawai'i!"

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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    not if it involves
    MWH

  15. #15

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    Quote Originally Posted by kimo55
    not if it involves
    MWH
    hahahahaha! Be nice, Kimo. There might also be an increased need for psychologists and psychiatrists and "Gamblers Anonymous" chapters. But if you don't go to the casinos, it doesn't cost you anything either. On the reservations up here, they also allow the tribes to sell cigarettes tax-free and fireworks, which are banned in most cities now.

    Miulang

  16. #16

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    An interesting statistic on tribal casinos: in 2004, 367 tribal casinos and gambling outlets grossed $19.4 BILLION. This was a 16%+ increase over 2003. If the kanaka maoli were allowed to build their own tribal casinos on ceded land (assuming that all other gambling was illegal in Hawai'i), they could be raking in some bigtime kala for their people.

    Miulang

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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    i'm going to risk serious burns for this naive question but i really want to hear your opinions. the question is, if the akaka bill is as bad as most here have said, why is oha--the supposed gardian angels of all things hawaiian--backing it? i can imagine that some might argue that the akaka bill gives the hawaiians the best they'll ever get under the circumstances but do you believe that oha believes that? or is there something worse going on, like favors being exchanged or money or whatever?

    (on a side note, when i was kid growing up, i couldn't understand why the hawaiians weren't the smartest, best educated, healthiest, etc. residents since bishop estate had sooooooo much money. so you can burn me on two counts cuz i don't know anything about the folks who used to run the bishop estate. i mean, i know about the scandles and stuff but with so much money--and since money talks--i would have thought that they could be buttholes all they wanted and still have enough money to help out every single hawaiian.)

    okay, i've said enough to get burned 10x over but i just wanted to hear some opinions on this one. thanks.

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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    A simple answer? People are greedy. Just because someone is Hawaiian doesn't mean that he has the best interests of all Hawaiians at heart. The old ali'i families, the ones who sold the islands' sandalwood to the Chinese, the ones who intermarried with the missionaries and the planters, the ones who sold their lands to the haole after the Great Mahele, never had all that much in common with the common folk. They didn't then, and they still don't now.

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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    hi glen (wasn't that your 1,001st post?!?) and thanks for your comment. yeah, that makes sense and that's believeable. still, what then do you think the main motive is for selling out? i mean, it's not as though they're gonna get paid tons of money in exchange for supporting this bill. see what i mean? or do you think they're secretly gonna get compensated for this?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    Sometimes it's not just about money...it's also about power and control. OHA is the group recognized by the Federal Govt to act as an agent for the kanaka maoli. They truly don't speak for all the kanaka maoli, because the kanaka maoli right now are too disorganized...too many different factions wanting separate things. They need to learn from their Indian brothers and sisters...if they want their movement to be pono, they all need to try to agree on some common things and work together for what's best for all the kanaka maoli, and not just a subset of the kanaka maoli.

    Miulang

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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    I also agree the Akaka Bill is not the answer for Hawai’i for reasons stated by Miulang. But if the Kanaka Maoli are so "disorganized," how come they are still fighting to restore sovereignty? I understand they are still affected by what happened (who wouldn’t!?) and should receive some sort of retribution, but is it such a good idea or is just me who could see serious problems arise if Hawai’i were to become a free nation?

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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    i don't mean to direct the discussion to a different area so please take the following as a related thought, not as an attempt to start a new thread. it has to do with christianity and the hawaiian people. i guess i'd classify myself as an agnostic and what i wanted to suggest--as politely as possible--is that those who call themselves christians consider their failure to act christ-like in this situation. let me explain. i understand that hawaiian affairs is not the primary mission of christians. however, i would think that those who call themselves christians would exhibit their professed faith by acting christ-like in this situation. to further clarify: i would be impressed and respect christians much more if they spoke out as christ did against injustices. in our context, that would mean speaking out against injustices against the hawaiian people. instead, what i see is that christianity is very mainstream, very middle class, and very much a supporter of the status quo. to me, that's very unchrist-like. even a casual reading of the new testament will make it clear that christ was a rocker; that is, he rubbed those in the mainstream the wrong way because of his radical ideas, his outspokenness. so as an outsider, i'm disappointed that the majority of those who call themselves christians are not living as their master/lord did. as an outsider, i see churches like central union and kawaiahao as wedding factories and am puzzled. (wait, don't shoot me down just yet, please.) as an outsider, i would assume that christians would be outspoken for their call for justice and fairness regardless of who it might upset.

    that kind of faith in action would impress me; even if i don't call myself a christian, that kind of faith strikes me as being real, alive, and meaningful. so i guess this post is partly an expression of my disappointment and also a kind of challenge to those who call themselves christians.

    finally--and you can shoot me down after this--i'll be more than happy to take back everything i've said if i'm wrong. i'm not taking any cheap shots. i'm trying to thoughtfully understand why christians--who are supposed to be the soldiers of christ--are not widely recognized by the general public as being serious fighters for peace, justice, and reconciliation as they are called to be. as christians, those are not optional things to do, if they like. it's their duty. it's the cross they chose to bear when they declared themselves christians.

    so if there are any christians out there, i would humbly say that every day is a new day and you and your congregation can make quite an impact if you were to decide to follow in the footsteps of your lord.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    >i understand that hawaiian affairs is not the primary mission of christians.

    no, but starting with the missionaries, they made it their objective to destroy much of Hawaiian culture. Does that count?

    >those who call themselves christians would exhibit their professed faith by acting christ-like in this situation. i would be impressed and respect christians much more if they spoke out as christ did against injustices.

    Why would they start doing this NOW!?
    and what makes you think they want to impress you and have your respect? Especially if it requires going down a path they haven't traversed?

    > speaking out against injustices against the hawaiian people. i would assume that christians would be outspoken for their call for justice and fairness regardless of who it might upset.

    christians see this not as their chore or their responsibility. never have, never will... beside, this would help them lose dominion and control.


    > i'm trying to thoughtfully understand why christians--who are supposed to be the soldiers of christ--are not widely recognized by the general public as being serious fighters for peace, justice, and reconciliation as they are called to be. as christians, those are not optional things to do, it's their duty. it's the cross they chose to bear when they declared themselves christians.

    wow. what fantasy writer sold you this scenario?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    The pending Senate vote on the Akaka Bill made it into the NYTimes today, too. I still think the kanaka maoli should fight against the Justice Dept.'s desire to prohibit the establishment of casinos on ceded land. Gambling revenues would be one way to give back the kanaka maoli a way to make their own money instead of being beholden to the State and the Feds. Allowing the kanaka maoli to raise their own funding would allow the State and Feds to decrease the amount of taxpayer dollars that are needed to support the current OHA programs.

    Another part of the NYT article (which you can't get to unless you register) talks about polls that have been conducted to determine the public's acceptance of the Akaka Bill. I think the results of 2 polls are telling, since they are diametrically opposed to each other. Makes you wonder which groups of people were polled for each of the 2 polls:
    "A survey conducted on behalf of the State Office of Hawaiian Affairs showed strong public support for the bill, while a poll released by the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii, a nonprofit group critical of the bill, showed that two out of three residents were against it..."

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; July 17th, 2005 at 09:33 AM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

    And here's a sarcastic Libertarian take on why the Akaka Bill should be voted down. The author also mentions the potential revenues to be derived from gambling...

    Miulang

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