Comments on the Akaka Bill?

[timkona]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

So did the King own the land, or did his subject's own the land?

It was my impression that Kanaka Maoli merely used the King's land, and paid some form of tithe to the king.

The Great Mahele allowed people to record the land as their own, without the feudalistic overtones.

[haole_pupule]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Hypothetically, what if a Hawaiian Government were formed similar to that of Native Americans? What would be the agenda?

Another question for you: What if you got a bunch of land back? What would you do with it?

Here is an interesting article:

The other side of the Great Mahele
By Bob Krauss
Advertiser Columnist

A new book suggests that the Great Mahele was not the controversial land rip-off of common Hawaiians that many historians have painted it. All things considered, commoners got a fair share. The rip-off came later and historians missed that, too.

"Most people remember that 99 percent of the land went to the king, the government and the high chiefs as a result of the Great Mahele," said Robert Stauffer, author of "Kahana, How the Land was Lost." "The conventional wisdom is that common Hawaiians got cheated with less than 1 percent," he said.

Instead, Stauffer's figures show that the 28,000 acres awarded to commoners constituted 43 percent of the total land value distributed in 1848. That's because each parcel was a developed kuleana in full production while the land awarded to landlords was mostly undeveloped acreage of little value.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Instead of quoting the whole article -- and without a citation, I might add -- you should just quote an excerpt and provide a link like this one.

[haole_pupule]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Sorry Glenn. Will do next time.

I came up with another question: If the Akaka Bill were put up for a vote amongst state residents would you want to restrict the vote only to Native Hawaiians or would all state citizens be allowed to vote on it?

[waioli kai]

bait and switch, fascUSt kings, queens and bishops defeat Akaka Bill motion

.

kamuelakea= --"I have no evidence to support the following position.

Dan Inouye is a politicians politician. He is an absolute master.

He also happens to be the one individual in all of U.S. History who has helped indigenous people establish sovereign nations. As I’ve stated before, Dan Inouye is revered by Native American Indians like no other non-Indian. His office is adorned with Indian artifacts, not Japanese or Hawaiian or American.

There’s the old saying. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

It’s a great time for Dan Inouye to be able to blame the evil republicans and George Bush. It’s the perfect alibi for someone who might not want it passed anyway.

I don’t think Akaka can get this passed alone. I believe Dan Inouye could pass this with ease. His support to me has been more formal and less passionate in my opinion. I could easily see Dan Inouye letting his Senate colleagues know that while he will put a public front on that supports the bill, he silently has ensured it’s death behind closed doors.

Why can’t the 2nd in Seniority in the Senate, a man who has been the Indian Affairs Chairman for many years and who is most responsible for establishing 180 Indian tribes in the US today get a similar thing done in his own state? Could it be that it’s because he doesn’t want to?--

Kamuelakea,

Mahalo for your beginning your message: "I have no evidence to support the following position." It allowed me to read your whole position in some relative comfort.

I fully agree that "Dan Inouye is a politicians' politician."; and, Senator Inouye is, in the U.S. Senate, the U.S. Congress, the entire field of United States' elected political leadership, one of the rare few of whom, like Senator Akaka, it can be said, confirmed and deserved [/I]"He is an absolute master."[/I]

The United States reeks of the moral corruption, the corporatUSt$ Democracy, which is professional politics in the United States. In my view, as of yesterday, it reeks to a minium of the 41% level, but, as was evidenced in the CheneyBush escalation of warfare aggression on Iraq in March 2003 when Cheneybush's "the sky is falling" heated that toxic, reeking 41% of self-intoxicating gas to expand to overwhelm a supermajority of the United States populace. The resulting putid spirit at that point, as in the 1890s, exloded to seize, occupy and expect to wholly (as with their Hawaii) conquer, disenfranchise, culturally compromise and homogenize the conquered peoples to whatever extent is necessary to ensure continuous workhands and feedstock to satisfy and serve corporatUSt inter$ts.

By the 1890's United States' imperialUSts had time on their hands for more malicious, criminal, immoral, accountability-free, lands procurement aggressions. Coming to a close was the growing, like a terminal cancer to the continent's native peoples, the god-forsaken United States' half-continent's worth of genocidal conquests up to and through the last half century of the 1800's wresting landsand waters from rightful inhabitants/owners for imperialUSt possession to comprise the pieces to what is now the contiguous 48 states, "The United States": Land free of indigenous peoples, Land free of leadership accountablity, Land free of truth, Land free of justice -- Land for, by, of justUS.

1893 is a defining year for imperialUSism. 1893 is when, in Honolulu, occured imperialUSt$' first exra-territorial aggression which, like their "Iraq War", was the uninvited deployment of U.S. forces to unilaterally secure resources deemed by militarist corporatUSt to be of nationalUSt interest. Unlike in Iraq, imperialUSt$' conquest of the islands Hawai'i, Cuba, Guam, the islands Philippines are not recorded in video. Unfortunately, neither the gross injustice, the justUS that was done to Hawai'i, nor the U.S slaughter of indigenous islanders of the Philippines can as mere truths themselves be of much substancial impact on a society, on a mental constuct so near exclusively dependent on television as is United States society.

Now, back your suspicion(s) about Senator Inouye's degree of commitment to successfully helping move through Congress and the Executive Branch, the Native Hawai'ian Recognition Bill, S.147, which as result of consultations with the White House well prior to yesterday's cloture vote has evolved into S.3064. The White House, I suspect at the behest of Cheney gangdicksters, backstabbed Akaka, Inouye and their allies yesterday with the gangdicks' production and distribution of a single page letter to Senators, like Chafee and others, to "recommend" voting against cloture. That the White House, their Attorney General office, put out the letter as they did, confirms that the White House was not ever negotiating honestly with Senators Inouye and Akaka. The White House pulled of the classic "Bait and Switch" operation against the two Senators and their allies.

One would think that after almost six years of CheneyBush deceptions, we would all be smarter by now, less susceptible to being surprised by, caught off-guard by, CheneyBush duplicity. When both of our Senators and all the official delegations representing the interests of Hawaii, on behalf of Hawai'i, are taken by surprise by such well-known liars as comprise the hardboiled core of the CheneyBush regime, it is a challenge to hope that anything but more injustice, more justUS, will befall Hawai'i while Hawai'i is State of Hawaii, United States.

[kamuelakea]

Re: bait and switch, fascUSt bishops defeat Akaka Bill motion

Kamuelakea,

The United States reeks of the moral corruption, .....
imperialUSism's, imperialUSts' first exra-territorial aggression --war of choice/preemptive warfare/premeditated, manufatured wars, dispute-- was their conquest of the islands Hawai'i, the island Cuba and the islands Philippines resulting putid spirit at that point, 1890's when

The history of the world, every nation, including the Hawaiian Nation, have been created by the spoils of war. Nothing unique to the United States about conquest and domination.

My take, some might be surprised, is little different. I see a positive. I think the United States is one of the few countries in the world who actually just might use history to make amends and appologies for the mistakes of ancestors. The United States has apologized and made amends to American Indians, Eskimos. The United States has apologized to Native Hawaiians. The United States has appoligized to and paid reparations to Japanese interns.

Pick another country and I'll give you a list of atrocities with no apologies. Japan, Russia, China???? Endless abuse and torture in the past. They rewrite textbooks, deny history and continue the abuse today.

I argue for Hawaiian Sovereignty, not because I hate the United States, but because I believe it is a great nation with the proven ability to recognize past injustice and make it right. The United States might be the only country capable of such honor.

Unfortunatley, this type of moral action is ultimately a political one. Morality and justice will get a Bill heard. Politics will kill it or pass it.


Kamuela

[kamuelakea]

Re: bait and switch, fascUSt bishops defeat Akaka Bill motion

Kamuelakea,
but, as was evidenced in the CheneyBush escalation of warfare aggression on Iraq in March 2003,

If I had to pick which person had the power to pass or kill the Akaka Bill, I would be 10 times more concerned with Dan Inouyes support or opposition than I would George Bushes support or opposition.

Dan Inouye got H-3 built after it was dead 3 times over by environmental law. He did it by tacking its construction onto a spending bill.

Dan Inouye is the number one pork barrel spender (means he's good at what he does) in the Senate.

Dan Inouye is 2nd in seniority in the Senate.

Dan Inouye totally supports the existence of 180 Native American Tribes already established. He even helped to establish many of them.

Dan Inouye protected Hawaii's 2 airlines for decades.

Dan Inouye got an exemption to the Jones Act so that the Norwegian Cruises could operate a monopoly local cruise service in Hawaii.

It seems to me that if Dan Inouye wanted this passed, it would be passed.

I don't see why George Bush would really care if the United States had 181 native nation w/in a nation groups instead of 180.

But I can see how Dan Inouye would enjoy the opportunity to blame it on Bush/Cheney/Lingle.

Kamuela

[D'Alani]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

And I wish the people of Hawaii will realize what Kamuelakea pointed out.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

And I wish the people of Hawaii will realize what Kamuelakea pointed out.

Aloha D'ALani.

One thing that you all know already. This is just one guy shooting his mouth off on his computer. I do not know Dan Inouye. I never met him. I am not in politics nor is anyone I know closely. So everything I say is just a feeling not based upon any evidence. Sometimes I just see stuff. I don't know why. Sometimes I'm wrong. But often times I'm right.

While I fully admit I cannot know what Dan Inouye really truly believes in his heart and mind, I have heard him say one thing that makes me wonder.

He has said on more than one occasion, "Hawaiians must unite" in order for him to help them. That is obviously true. So the one excuse that I might give Senator Inouye is that he just doesn't think that Hawiians are unified enough for him to push legislation through.

If that's what he's thinking, I hope he is letting both/all sides of Native Hawaiian leadership know it in no uncertain terms behind closed doors at least. If not, then I still think he just does not support the idea because his vision of Hawaii is that of a plantation immigrant dominated melting pot of psuedo-Hawaiiians, Hawaiian-wannabes and Hawaiian-lites, .....and not that of a Hawaiian Nation.

But its all just hot air at this time.

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Aloha D'ALani.

One thing that you all know already. This is just one guy shooting his mouth off on his computer. I do not know Dan Inouye. I never met him. I am not in politics nor is anyone I know closely. So everything I say is just a feeling not based upon any evidence. Sometimes I just see stuff. I don't know why. Sometimes I'm wrong. But often times I'm right.

While I fully admit I cannot know what Dan Inouye really truly believes in his heart and mind, I have heard him say one thing that makes me wonder.

He has said on more than one occasion, "Hawaiians must unite" in order for him to help them. That is obviously true. So the one excuse that I might give Senator Inouye is that he just doesn't think that Hawiians are unified enough for him to push legislation through.

If that's what he's thinking, I hope he is letting both/all sides of Native Hawaiian leadership know it in no uncertain terms behind closed doors at least. If not, then I still think he just does not support the idea because his vision of Hawaii is that of a plantation immigrant dominated melting pot of psuedo-Hawaiiians, Hawaiian-wannabes and Hawaiian-lites, .....and not that of a Hawaiian Nation.

But its all just hot air at this time.

Dan Inouye got my father appointed as a Postmaster in the 1960s. I think he means what he says about the kanaka maoli uniting and having one goal and one voice. Otherwise, he would have to pick sides among the different factions, and then nothing would happen. When he helped establish recognition for some of the Native American tribes, I'm sure that's what he told them, too.

I feel the same way about the kanaka maoli having too many different ideas about what sovereignty would mean, too. Maybe all the competing factions need to ho'oponopono and come up with one consistent set of issues.

Watching the canoe carvers from Hawai'i, Tonga, New Zealand, Cook Islands, and Tahiti at the Festival of Canoes in Lahaina last week, it reminded me that to make a canoe move forward, all the paddlers need to be in cadence. It also made me realize that these craftspeople were able to carve out seaworthy canoes in a little less than 2 weeks. If they had had more time, the canoes would have been even more perfect, but each member of a canoe building team knew what their roles were and they worked together to get the job done. Perhaps that is what the sovereignty movement needs to do, too.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

saving, revitalizing Hawai'i Nei.

kamuelakea,
The 240 minutes allotement of time allowing me revision of my previous response to you has expired. Sometimes, three hours is just not long enough. At least so far, I'm glad I don't have to address something you copied from my unfinished text and made comments about.

I respect your views and observations with respect to Senator Inouye. I do not mean to ignore Senator Inouye's lifetime of what many environmentalists and most anti-militarists consider to be controversial achievements. Maybe it's just a result of some kind of psychic osmosis from my having been born into and raised in predominantly Protestant Christian communities, but, whatever the cause, I hold some faith in the redemptive value of most if not all human beings. I'll never forget the occassion of Senator Jesse Helms (a man whose political persuasion and consequence I will never cease to revile, never cease to resent) being persuaded to accept the reality of AIDS and to agree to address the disease; it was a beneficial paradigm shift that until then I could not believe would ever pass through Helms.

Senator Inouye likely had a great deal to do with restoring Kaho'olawe to Hawai'ians. In that spirit I surmise that you are not suggesting that Senator Inouye holds anything less than the best intentions for Hawai'i, for Hawai'ians and all that makes Hawaii exceptionally unique among the states of the U.S.

Because passage of an Akaka Bill is once again put off, and Doe v. Kamehameha Schools appeal goes before an en banc panel of the US Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday, June 20, there is an opporitunity for the wisdom of the 9th Court to enlighten all disbelievers as to the right and just cause of saving and revitalizing Hawai'i Nei.

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

In my research, I found this 1996 graduate (I think) UH thesis from a student by the name of Anthony Castanha entitled, "Roles of Non-Hawaiians in the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement".

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but here is the abstract. What makes it so fascinating is that Castanha was able to sit down with so many kanaka maoli from different factions to ask them questions about what role non-kanaka maoli citizens of Hawai'i could play if Hawai'i ever had a sovereign government again. It should bring some comfort to those who worry that their land will get taken away from them, or that they would get ejected from the new country, what the responses from these potential new leaders were.

"...Since 1993 the Hawaiian movement for sovereignty and self- determination has gained much strength and attention. As non- Hawaiians in Hawai'i comprise approximately 80 percent of the total population, many have become concerned as to where they might fit into the sovereignty picture and how Hawaiian sovereignty will affect them. This thesis examines roles and impacts of sovereignty on non-Hawaiians in four models of Hawaiian self-government. The models have been proposed by the Hawaiian community in an effort to relieve the plight of the Kanaka Maoli people. The work presents the views of fifteen sovereignty leaders interviewed on roles of non-Hawaiians in seven major areas. The effects of the movement on non-Hawaiians, particularly in the area of property, are analyzed. The results indicate there are definitely roles for non-Hawaiians to play, and the progress of the Hawaiian sovereignty movement may likely affect all residents of Hawai'i. ..."

Miulang

[waioli kai]

hydra-headed monster, CheneyBush regime re: Akaka Bill

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-- "If I had to pick which person had the power to pass or kill the Akaka Bill, I would be 10 times more concerned with Dan Inouyes support or opposition than I would George Bushes support or opposition. --

I would agree, if it were just the person George W. Bush being compared to Inouye. But, CheneyBush regime is a hydra-headed monster wielding unprecedented power and subterfuge.

[waioli kai]

common political underpinnings, not to be royal succession

More than two centurys' into the decimation of indigenous islanders in the Hawaiian Islands, the non-kanaka maoli citizens of Hawaii* must necessarily be among kanaka maoli citizens' greatest assets in the struggle to perpetuate Hawai'i, to honor the aina, honor ohana, honor Life, live Aloha.

As Kamuelakea points out, Senator Inouye ' has said on more than one occasion, "Hawai'ians must unite" in order for him to help them. ' Every non-kanaka maoli wishes the same of Hawai'ians, wishes Hawai'ians would commit to a common political underpinning on which to begin to amass and focus the strength of their cause. Of all such political underpinnings, one forged out of deference to some royal line of heirs ranks among the most likely to receive little to no support from non-kanaka maoli as well as from kanaka maoli themselves.

re: * "... citizens of Hawaii...", I know you put ' okina in there Miulang, just as Kamuelakea did not put ' okina in "Hawai'ians" when he quoted Inouye. In maintaining that Hawai'i, Hawai'i Nei, is distinct from and more than Hawaii The State of Hawaii, it is for the sake of logical consistency that I do not write " citizens of Hawai'i " since such citizens cannot exist at this time given that there is yet to be formed a government of Hawai'i, a government that is distinct from the government of Hawaii, The State of Hawaii.

[kimo55]

Re: common political underpinnings, not to be royal succession

Given two centuries worth of decimation of indigenous islanders in the....

...such citizens cannot exist at this time given that there is yet to formed a government of .....

Given that I got a bad headache arready from this,
Admins, please close this tread. I no longer want to read this stuff.
It is now on my ignore thread....
I don't want to hear opinions on this subject....
or any others for that matter...
My brain is french fried.