Explosions in London's transit system

[newroots]

Re: Explosions in London's transit system

in old hebrew commandments it says ....... thou shall not kill unless going to be killed , or something like that. basically it means killing is justified if your life is in serious danger. the christian god , is god. it hasnt been around for just 2000 years , its been around since the old testament.

religious talk like this ... isnt permitted in the bible. read timothy chapters 2 and 3. 'remind people of these things and charge them before god to stop disputing about words. this serves no useful purpose since it harms those who listen'

but anyway , the ten commandments shaped society in a big way. it seems like today were doing everything jesus or god doesnt allow. and the result is the world today. sin brings dispair. everything the only thing thats wrong with the world is sin i.e. greed , murder , sloth , pride , avrice , revenge.. etc.

[Miulang]

Re: Explosions in London's transit system

Now the AP is reporting there was no advance warning about the attack given to the Israelis:

http://news.findlaw.com/ap/i/631/07-...e3500ec3d.html

And it seems Al-Qaeda was behind this, not a bunch of "pissed off Parisians" as previously mentioned:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660391.stm

Nobody wants to attribute the massacre in London to anyone yet because MI5, Scotland Yard and the FBI have just started their investigations. And the "pissed off Parisians" was a joke, in case anybody really believed I was serious about it. I just thought it was a very aliterative phrase.

Miulang

[Miulang]

And who is Qaida al-Jihad in Europe?

No one seems to know who the purported perpetrators of the London subway bombings is, but here is one theory of who they are and why they are attacking.

"...Most probably, then, this group consists of a small (and previously obscure) expatriate Muslim network somewhere in continental Europe, which has decided to announce its allegiance to Qaida al-Jihad. It is highly unlikely that al-Qaida itself retains enough command and control to plan or order such operations. They could have found many cues in al-Qaida literature, however, that London should be attacked. ..."

"...The communiqué on the London bombing is unusual in appealing both to the Muslim community and to the "community of Arabism." "Urubah," or Arabism, is a secular nationalist ideal. The diction suggests that the bombers are from a younger generation of activists who have not lived in non-Arab Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Afghanistan, and think of Arabism and Islam as overlapping rather than alternatives to one another. The text makes relatively few references to religion, reading more as a statement of Muslim nationalism than of piety.

In accordance with al-Zawahiri's focus on violence as the answer to the "marauding" of occupying non-Muslim armies in Muslim lands, the statement condemns what it calls "massacres" by "Zionist" British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, both of them Muslim lands under Western military occupation (and, it is implied, similar in this regard to Gaza and the West Bank under Israeli control). These bombings, it says, are a form of revenge for these alleged predations. The language of revenge recalls tribal feuds rather than Islamic values.

The terrorists refer to the bombings, which they say they carefully planned over a long period, as a "blessed raid." They are recalling the struggle between the wealthy, pagan trading entrepot, Mecca, and the beleaguered, persecuted Muslim community in Medina in early seventh century west Arabia. The Muslims around the Prophet Mohammed responded to the Meccan determination to wipe them out by raiding the caravans of their wealthy rivals, depriving them of their profits and gradually strangling them. The victorious Muslims, having cut the idol-worshipping Meccan merchants off, marched into the city in 630. Al-Qaida teaches its acolytes that great Western metropolises such as New York and London are the Meccas of this age, centers of paganism, immorality and massive wealth, from which plundering expeditions are launched against hapless, pious Muslims. This symbology helps explain why the City of London subway stops were especially targeted, since it is the economic center of London. A "raid" such as the Muslim bombings is considered not just a military action but also a religious ritual. ..."

Miulang

P.S. for anyone who cares, here's the full text of the posting claiming responsibility for the bombings.

[Menehune Man]

Re: Explosions in London's transit system

I've read the different news links and the Phinehas brotherhood link (Whoa). So... Guess what we need is a better inteligence collecting agency in order to know who to take out and where they are. It's just too messy the way we're attacking the problem now. Too many innocents along side too many misses of the real quarry. And we know that the other side has no plans to stop. Even if or when we cannot present any kind of defense they'll just finish us off. So what're we to do? The ideals of hippiedom, as much as I wish they did, just don't work in this world. The Old Testament is full of conquer and pillage to achieve your goals. Whereas in The New Testament, the teachings of Jesus portray helping or loving your neighbor even when they're not being lovable. But even Jesus stood up and sometimes violently to uphold the morals that He believed in. So again "What're we to do?" Hoping for peace doesn't do "it" for me anymore.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: And who is Qaida al-Jihad in Europe?

P.S. for anyone who cares, here's the full text of the posting claiming responsibility for the bombings.

Thanks for the repost of the link that I already wrote about in this very thread...

[Miulang]

Terrorism on the move

You'll need FLASH in order to see the following map, but it's a good one that shows how many terrorist incidents (some directly attributable to al Qaeda and others not) that have happened up to the incident in London (but not including the one in Israel that happened today) since Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda declared war on the western world in 1998.

It's interesting because the current theory is that bin Laden is no longer in charge of the organization and that now it's made up of splinter groups of jihadists who, in our parlance, are "loose cannons".

Reports out of London today indicate that it is possible that suicide bombers were the cause of all 4 of the explosions in London; if that's the case, then there's no way any nation can protect itself from these attacks. The only hope is to remove western troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. We don't have anything to lose (except to save the lives of innocent citizens in this country and our occupying troops) by choosing this option. If there are explosions soon in Italy and Denmark, two of the "coalition of the willing", it will be because of their occupation of Iraq.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Why terrorists attack

Despite the commonly held belief in this country that the reason suicide bombers attack is because of their fundamentalist beliefs, this interview of Robert Pape, considered to be the foremost American authority on terrorism, that appears in the American Conservative says something completely different.

The reason why suicide bombers attack, according to Pape, is because they are striking out against the occupiers of territories they believe they own: hence the problems in Israel from the Palestinean terrorists, in London and Madrid because of the British and Spanish involvement in the occupation of Iraq, etc.

"...The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent of all the incidents—has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw....

"...Since suicide terrorism is mainly a response to foreign occupation and not Islamic fundamentalism, the use of heavy military force to transform Muslim societies over there, if you would, is only likely to increase the number of suicide terrorists coming at us.

Since 1990, the United States has stationed tens of thousands of ground troops on the Arabian Peninsula, and that is the main mobilization appeal of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda. People who make the argument that it is a good thing to have them attacking us over there are missing that suicide terrorism is not a supply-limited phenomenon where there are just a few hundred around the world willing to do it because they are religious fanatics. It is a demand-driven phenomenon. That is, it is driven by the presence of foreign forces on the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. The operation in Iraq has stimulated suicide terrorism and has given suicide terrorism a new lease on life..."

As long as we persist in our empiric efforts to spread our brand of democracy through occupation, we will always be vulnerable to attack at home. We don't have the know how or adequate numbers of troops to kill off every single possible suicide bomber in Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Russia and every other part of the world. We need to do a better job of protecting ourselves on our own turf.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Terrorism on the move

Reports out of London today

Links? Evidence to support your position?

I've heard reports that there were timers used in all the bombs. You want the URLs of where I saw it? Nah.

[Miulang]

Re: Terrorism on the move

Links? Evidence to support your position?

I've heard reports that there were timers used in all the bombs. You want the URLs of where I saw it? Nah.

You want links? Here ya go...and it's just a start...what makes it worse is the bombers are suspected of being British citizens of Pakistani decent. Here's another link. And another.

Miulang

[Menehune Man]

Re: Explosions in London's transit system

Everyone's beliefs in what's right runs strong within each of us. Most people do what in their eyes is the correct thing to do at that time. The bombers believed so and the occupying forces in Iraq / Afganistan believe so too. "So how to find the common ground, where all are blessed and peace is found."

[Miulang]

Mathematical certainty we'll be next...

I hope it doesn't come to pass, but from everything I've been reading since the London suicide bombings seems to indicate that besides Italy and Denmark, suicide bombers could strike somewhere in this country, too, and we really have no defense against it, until AFTER it happens, all because of our illegal occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

According to Robert Pape, who I cited earlier, the reason why suicide bombers attack is not out of religious fervor, but because of the notion that they want to hurt people from countries who are occupying their homelands.

In today's news from London, they identified 3 of the 4 suicide bombers as being British-born Pakistanis, and the fourth suspect is now believed to be Jamaican. They also believe that the mastermind of the whole plot left Britain the day before the bombings, destination unknown.

Ironic that this morning Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, announced plans to dramatically revamp his agency. It may be a little too late, and with too few resources available.

So, where would a sleeper cell of suicide bombers most likely attack? A large city, or a medium sized one? And would they be American, as in the OK City bombing of the Murrah Federal Bldg? I remember the outrage and the immediate assumption that "they" must be Islamic terrorists. I remember the hate crimes committed against peace-loving Muslim Americans just because they believed in the Koran and not the Bible.

The enemy may look exactly the same as everyone else in your community. Would you turn your next door neighbor in to authorities if they did anything suspicious? And if we let this paranoia become epidemic, the citizens of this country would find most of their freedoms stripped away, and we will be living in an armed camp...just like Israel.

"...Israel is the only state on earth that has ever got near successfully countering the onslaught of suicide bombers but only at a terrible cost.

By most normal standards Israel has turned itself into a modern day Sparta where 50 per cent of the population is armed at all times and where every bus stop, every restaurant, every public building has its own security guard who ruthlessly checks handbags and warily eyes every suspicious character.

Beyond the human guards is an army of soldiers who ring every major Israeli city and who can cordon off every area within seconds...." And even those precautions didn't stop the suicide bomber in a marketplace in Israel a few days ago...


Miulang

P.S. Some things to look for in a suspected suicide bomber: wearing bulky coats or jackets, especially when the weather doesn't call for wearing one (could be concealing a bomb taped to his body), carrying bulky backpacks in unusual places, and shortly before blowing himself up and everyone in his vicinity, he goes into a zombie-like trance...

[1stwahine]

Re: Explosions in London's transit system

Sadly, it has happened again in London. They also caught a suspect near the Prime Minister's home. Citizens starts to say they don't want to use the subways. My prayers and thoughts are for those there today!

Auntie Lynn

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Explosions in London's transit system

From the sound of it, it was a pretty pathetic bombing attempt. Maybe this was a copycat instead of the Real Thing.

[Miulang]

Re: Explosions in London's transit system

From the sound of it, it was a pretty pathetic bombing attempt. Maybe this was a copycat instead of the Real Thing.

That's what I'm thinking too. It sounds like whoever built the bombs couldn't even wire the things correctly...some news outlets said witnesses said they smelled something sulfurous (rotten egg) which sounds like the detonator (the detcord) burning and not the bombs themselves.

It could very well be a conspiracy (love those!) by Tony Blair to get Parliament to enact stricter "Patriot Act" type policies on his country...and it sure does tie in nicely with the sunsetting of the US Patriot Act at the end of this year, doesn't it?

Miulang

[kimo55]

Re: Explosions in London's transit system

From the sound of it, it was a pretty pathetic bombing attempt. Maybe this was a copycat instead of the Real Thing.

a copycat can and will do as much damage as "the real thing"