Mexican-American

[arturo_h]

Re: Mexican-American

I apologize. I can see comparing islands to non-islands isn’t correct. I have lived in Guam, which seemed comparable to Hawaii, but not as populous. Kimo-I meant that people moving from one area to another is basically redistribution when viewed from a greater perspective. Development is evident around the world. Why should Hawaii be any different? I’m not saying destroying beautiful land in Hawaii is right, but I don’t see it as something to blame on people who move to Hawaii. Babies are still born everyday, and the population of the world, not just Hawaii, is growing. Again, perspective. The Earth is a finite place, but to single out Hawaii doesn’t seem right. LikaNui-I don’t think living on an island is the matter at hand. Sure, some people have a problem with it, and should be smart enough NOT to move to an island, but for those who can, so be it. Miulang-If someone doesn’t feel comfortable living in an “urban” lifestyle, then they should move somewhere rural. It is under one’s control to decide to move somewhere they think will make them happy. Some people enjoy urban lifestyle, like me. Moving somewhere because its “paradise” doesn’t seem like a smart move, and that is not what I will be doing. But I agree, for those who move to Hawaii ONLY because it’s paradise, have another thing coming. Miulang-How does it “pain you” to see what’s going on in Hawaii, although it’s happening everywhere?
Arturo

[kimo55]

Re: Mexican-American

>" Kimo-I meant that people moving from one area to another is basically redistribution when viewed from a greater perspective. "


solly cholly.
i am still in the dark.

>"Development is evident around the world. Why should Hawaii be any different? "


hooooboy! them's fightin' words, cholo.

[Miulang]

Re: Mexican-American

Miulang-How does it “pain you” to see what’s going on in Hawaii, although it’s happening everywhere?
Arturo

It is extremely sad for me and most expatriates who can only afford to visit their families maybe once or twice a year because we can see it happening in the communities where we DO live. We know what it's like to be faced with the kinds of urban and growth issues that Hawai'i has really started experiencing over the last 20 years or so. We know progress can't be halted, but we also know that Hawai'i is NOT the continental US where there is still room to grow.

Hawai'i is a very fragile ecosystem. It is home to thousands of plants and animals that are found nowhere else in the world. For every acre of land that was farmed or every forest that is felled for development, so much less is left for the people who live there.

Those of us who have dreams of returning to our birthplace shudder to think of what it will be like in 5 or 10 years. Every day, much of what we left behind is falling to the developer's frothing mouths. I worry most about the ability of the residents of Hawai'i to survive a catastrophe if they were cut off from getting food shipped in. When all the farmland in Hawai'i disappears, so will the people. If you read a little about the ancient people of Hawai'i, you will come to understand that they knew they were part of the land and that it was their job to protect it, to nurture it, because in doing so, it would keep them healthy and fed.

You cannot grow food on a blacktopped parking lot. There are no interstates between the West Coast and Hawai'i. It costs a lot of money to fly perishable food to the islands (and the people pay for it). The only other way to get food to Hawai'i is by boat. If there is a shipping strike (and they have been known to happen), the only recourse is to fly food in. People in Hawai'i have a hard enough time earning enough to support their families as it is. If you double the cost of their food, how many will starve? That's why I worry about the influx of so many new people.

But if you're willing to move to Hawai'i and work to help make Hawai'i a better place to live, then I'm sure you'd be welcomed with open arms. Just be respectful and wait awhile before making any waves, though. It takes awhile for the locals to warm up to newcomers (malihini) who move there rather than to just visit and leave their money and go home.


Miulang

P.S. Arturo, since you sound like you're more of a macro thinking kinda guy, think of Hawai'i this way...there aren't many places in the world that because of its geographic isolation, thousands of threatened species are being driven to extinction FROM THE WORLD because of thoughtless development and the introduction of alien species. Then try to say that Hawai'i is just like every place else.

[AbsolutChaos]

Re: Mexican-American

I understand the concerns, but like MadAzza said, over-population is present in any urban area. I’ve just never heard it being complained about so much.

The difference between moving to urban areas on the Mainland and moving to HI--it's an ISLAND. There are no suburbs to alleviate the overpopulation burden here, unlike the Mainland. Here one can only build new bldgs/roads by tearing down exising roads/bldgs or by getting rid of the pristine areas that are protected and which make HI such a popular destination in the first place. Most people who "fall in love" with HI are in love with an ideal, and many dreamers move here only to find that they can't find a job and they can't afford the rent. They learn that the reality of living in HI (prevalence of drugs like ice, homes costing millions, constantly clogged highways) is quite different from the picture of HI presented to tourists and shown on TV.

It's quite a difficult situation. I think many residents of HI WANT to be welcoming, but they find it quite daunting and challenging to do so when faced with the result of such a population influx (aka rising prices, lack of housing, disappearance of land, a change from the slow pace of island life to one influenced by the "everybody is always in a hurry" Mainland way of life).

It's a sad and scary situation to which there doesn't seem to be an answer...

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Mexican-American

It's a sad and scary situation to which there doesn't seem to be an answer...

I'm pretty much resigned to it myself. I can see no way of reducing the island's population short of political upheaval, economic ruin, or massive fatalities from war or plague.

Life in Hawai'i will be different in the future. When my kids are old, they will reminisce fondly about the days of their childhood when you could still see open fields where they used to grow sugar and pineapple, and when the Honolulu skyline was not yet a continuous wall of buildings from Pearl Harbor to Diamond Head.

[Miulang]

Re: Mexican-American

"...If someone doesn’t feel comfortable living in an “urban” lifestyle, then they should move somewhere rural. It is under one’s control to decide to move somewhere they think will make them happy...."
Arturo, I wish it was that easy. It's not, when you live on an island and can't move anywhere else on that island because there are no affordable places to live. And it's definitely not easy for a family of 4 to pull up stakes and leave their ohana (family) behind to move to the mainland, although many locals have made the sad decision to move up here. In Hawai'i, unlike most places in the US, extended family still does mean a lot. That's why up here, I have a surrogate ohana comprised of other expats and we have a gathering in the Seattle area and a larger, national one in Las Vegas every year.

Miulang

[arturo_h]

Re: Mexican-American

Thanks for all the input. I wonder what CAN be done about this. Is there a solution? Are most people living in Hawaii unhappy? It doesn’t sound like a good way to live. Kimo-Hah, I didn’t mean to use any “fighting-words.” Just trying to get a handle on things. I was curious if people in Hawaii feel over-population or urbanism is a bad thing in Hawaii or a bad thing in a general sense. Miulang-I can understand where you’re coming from. It seems ridiculous to have to pay “tourist” rates to fly to your hometown. Again I wonder if anything can be done. Restrictions, laws, etc? It seems like the population must “cap-off” sometime. Miulang-I agree with you there. Most people on the mainland from the age of 18 try to get as far away from their family, and of course culture is not an issue. Family and culture are both very important to Mexicans on the other hand, and I’m glad we can still distinguish ourselves from the others on the mainland. I hope Hawaiians can say the same.

Out of curiosity:
Isn’t there a big fight for sovereignty in Hawaii. And if so, how do the Hawaiians see a future without the US government in this day and age? Is it much different to a sovereign nation that had never been taken over by the US? How would they deal with issues like economy, infrastructure, crime, etc? Would life in Hawaii be better/worse than it is now? Thanks again for your comments.
Arturo

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Mexican-American

Out of curiosity:
Isn’t there a big fight for sovereignty in Hawaii. And if so, how do the Hawaiians see a future without the US government in this day and age? Is it much different to a sovereign nation that had never been taken over by the US? How would they deal with issues like economy, infrastructure, crime, etc? Would life in Hawaii be better/worse than it is now? Thanks again for your comments.
Arturo

Oh boy. Got a couple of years to listen?

[LikaNui]

Re: Mexican-American

Oh boy. Got a couple of years to listen?

Indeed.
Arturo can do a Google search on "Hawaii+sovereignty" and get 379 major links to read.
And that would just be a start.

[arturo_h]

Re: Mexican-American

Hah, thanks guys. I got the impression that a lot of the Hawaiian-sovereignty supporters have different views on important matters. Is this a good idea when one is trying to start a new nation? I’d imagine starting a new nation requires patience, agreement and time. I guess I’ll say good luck. I’m still interested in what you guys think. But don’t spend your lives doing it.
Arturo

[Miulang]

Re: Mexican-American

Hah, thanks guys. I got the impression that a lot of the Hawaiian-sovereignty supporters have different views on important matters. Is this a good idea when one is trying to start a new nation? I’d imagine starting a new nation requires patience, agreement and time. I guess I’ll say good luck. I’m still interested in what you guys think. But don’t spend your lives doing it.
Arturo

And that is precisely why there won't be Hawaiian sovereignty anytime soon. Until and unless the kanaka maoli (native Hawaiian people) can agree on what is important and all work toward the same kuleana, they will forever be splintered and forever be wards of the American government.

Miulang

[lavagal]

Re: Mexican-American

Hello all! ... I’ve visited Hawaii a couple times, and have always loved it. I already have a job lined up and maybe will have a place to stay temporarily before I can find a permanent residence. Arturo

So Arturo, what kind of work would you be doing here? I think part of the problem in Hawaii is people not finding jobs sufficient to keep up with the cost of living, which I'm sure you've surmised, is a tough coconut to crack.

[arturo_h]

Re: Mexican-American

I work for IBM and was able to get a transfer to the IBM branch in Honolulu. Generally its technical support stuff, but I have other duties also.
Arturo

[Miulang]

Re: Mexican-American

I work for IBM and was able to get a transfer to the IBM branch in Honolulu. Generally its technical support stuff, but I have other duties also.
Arturo

Are you going to be in the consulting group? I've seen lots of jobs for their consulting group. Might even go apply for one of those project manager jobs myself.

Miulang

[lavagal]

Re: Mexican-American

I work for IBM and was able to get a transfer to the IBM branch in Honolulu. Generally its technical support stuff, but I have other duties also.
Arturo

Well, gee-zoo! I doubt you'll have to commute from the tarps across the street at Ala Moana Beach Park with a job like that lined up! You'll find it to be a bit challenging economically, but I'm relieved to learn you're moving here with what sounds like will be a good job. Best wishes to you. Let us know how it all turns out.