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Thread: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

  1. #101
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    Default Re: rabid pro-ferry dreamers

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui
    Please read message #95 in this thread, where BEAKER was the person who made the "rabid anti-ferry" comment. It was NOT me. What part of that is difficult to comprehend?
    (And by the way, I'm not on any kind of hook for you to let me off of.)
    Whatever...

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui
    No, you didn't. But what you did do was to select only one part of his comments.
    The truth of the matter is I got burned by Mel in the past by quoting too much from newspaper articles. So if you want to know why it is that way, thats the reason. Take it up with Mel...
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  2. #102
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    Default Re: rabid pro-ferry dreamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy
    Whatever.
    I'll take that as an acknowledgment that you do now realize it was Beaker who used the "rabid anti-ferry" term and not me. Apology accepted.

    The truth of the matter is I got burned by Mel in the past by quoting too much from newspaper articles. So if you want to know why it is that way, thats the reason.
    Thanks for it explaining that, and it makes perfect sense. Therefore, I also apologize to you.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    That Kahului harbormaster, if you read the Maui News story quoted above, actually WANTS the Superferry to succeed. So does the Mayor and just about everyone else (including the small business people of Maui). Unfortunately, as he put it, he likes 777s too, but one of those could never land on Molokai, just as Superferry can't fit in Kahului Harbor without causing some major problems for the residents of Maui.

    As a traveller to Maui on Superferry you might also consider this: you can ride in style to Maui on Superferry, but your return trip home to Honolulu ain't gonna be a bed of roses. For one thing, in its current planned configuration, you'd probably have to head for the harbor at least 3 or 4 hours ahead of the sailing time (for car inspections, decontamination, etc). While you're waiting there, if you need to use a bathroom, you head for the bank of PortaPotties that will be stationed in the "waiting room" area, which by the way, will just be one of those big tentlike things which will only protect you from the sun but not from the heat of the Maui sun because it won't have air conditioning (open sides). Need something to eat? Maybe they'll have a few vending machines handy.

    If you're expecting Kahului to have a real "terminal" you're going to have to do some wishful thinking. Garibaldi et al don't want to spend any money on permanent facilities right now, which kind of tells me the whole thing hasn't been thought out very well.

    I still think having the Superferry dock at Ma'alaea or on a new pier OUTSIDE the current harbor would make more sense. Of course, that would mean more planning time and the Mayor doesn't want to waste any more time getting the docks ready (he says the money's been allocated, so let's spend it). In the process, they might have to demolish 2 historic buildings (the old A&B General Store and the old Kahului RR train depot, both of which now house small businesses). All of this for progress?

    Sometimes you have to let things blow up in peoples' faces before anyone will believe what you're saying (in the meantime, they call it the "politics of no" ). Sadly, I think this is what will happen to Superferry on Maui in its current planned incarnation.

    Miulang

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    Sometimes you have to let things blow up in peoples' faces before anyone will believe what you're saying (in the meantime, they call it the "politics of no" ). Sadly, I think this is what will happen to Superferry on Maui in its current planned incarnation.

    I couldn't agree with you more. The moment truth is quickly approaching.
    It won't be a pretty situation I tell you at all. In short this whole service
    really has not not been thought out very well.
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  5. #105
    waioli kai Guest

    Default Re: rabid pro-ferry dreamers

    .
    -- Lika Nui- You have obviously confused me with someone else. I'm NOT the person who wrote about "rabid ainti-ferry powers". -

    Really, I don't want to avoid this hydrofoil ferry topic discussion point,, but.... Yes, it is unsettling to one, and to others, for one to be written or spoken of with one's own words being taken out of context and refuted for specious, when not just downright fallacious reasons, invented; e.g., when I wrote 'rabid ainti-ferry powers' it was not attributed to you, which is why it is embraced with single ' quotation marks, not double " quotation marks as you above write it. Not attributing any malice on your part I take your mistranscription to be your inadvertant mistake. At the time I wrote 'rabid anti-ferry powers' I certainly had no intention of attributing the phrase to you, in fact, I fully intended, and still intend to take credit for inventing the phrase unless of course it turns up in some previous written or spoken material of someone else. Now about "rabid pro-ferry dreamers", that is pure imagination. I am certain that I have never read such a phrase until this forum. Some of those dreamers are just dreamers, and nothing more sinister than that. But, as in all corporatUSt "adventures", there are also rabid pro-ferry schemers where the U.S. Department of Defense feeds all takers.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    People, rather than bicker about what we don't like, why don't we propose reasonable solutions? Bickering is not going to yield solutions. It will only cause people to become more entrenched in their positions, trying to get things 100% their way. Let's get to the bottom of this. a) We need a good ferry system. b) Instead of bickering, let's hear what we're going to do to maximize its benefits while minimizing its problems.

  7. #107
    waioli kai Guest

    Default HI Sferry, Inc problem

    .
    beaker= - " People, rather than bicker about what we don't like, why don't we propose reasonable solutions? " -

    "Reasonable solutions" ? This from the initiator of the term "rabid anti-ferry crowd". A bit from a pathetic twist to be sure.

    "Reasonable solutions" to what problem or problems? Hawaii Superferry, Inc. is the problem. You and your "We" don't see it that way. You see the problem(s) as being those who are opposed to what you deem to be a solution, namely Hawaii Superferry Inc.
    ___ ___ ___ _

    - "a) We need a good ferry system. " -

    Who is your "We"? None of the informed people with whom I've communcated in my community, and few of the uninformed adults with whom I've spoken about this topic, especially when it comes to the current proposed interisland ferry which the pro-ferry crowd is promoting.
    ___ ___ ___ _

    - " b) Instead of bickering, let's hear what we're going to do to maximize its benefits while minimizing its problems. " -

    Too funny! ---> ' Let us be reasonable... (for instance?) For the sake of reason, let us assume Hawaii Superferry, Inc. benefits can outweigh its problems.' That's not reason, it's deception.

    Assumptions are usually made for sake of convenience, not logic, not reason. Assumptions are declared to be facts for the sake of taking or maintaining control, not for the sake of seeking truth.
    Last edited by waioli kai; June 1st, 2006 at 10:43 PM.

  8. #108

    Default It ain't over until it's over...

    Somehow, I suspect the upcoming public meetings between Superferry officials and the people of Maui that were mandated by the Legislature in order for Superferry to receive $20 million will be, shall we say, less than cordial?

    Miulang

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Maybe Maui should be left out of the route for now and just focus on Kauai and the Big Island. I sure wish the super ferry would come into Hilo

  10. #110

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe
    Maybe Maui should be left out of the route for now and just focus on Kauai and the Big Island. I sure wish the super ferry would come into Hilo
    Eh Craig, even Kauai is getting worried now about the impact Superferry might have on Young Bros being able to ship less than full containers because of crowding in Nawiliwili Harbor once Superferry gets there. They're supposed to be holding informational meetings on Kauai sometime soon, too. At least Kauai has a little more breathing room than Maui does to try to figure out a way to fit everything that needs to be in Nawiliwili Harbor.

    Miulang

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe
    Maybe Maui should be left out of the route for now and just focus on Kauai and the Big Island. I sure wish the super ferry would come into Hilo
    Craig, this is HSF's "excuse" why they won't service Hilo.

    http://www.hawaiisuperferry.com/fares/routes.html

    Why we don’t go to Hilo: A Honolulu to Hilo route would take 6 hours (vs. 4 to Kawaihae) and must operate through the rough Alenuihaha Channel. As a result, Hilo would cost more to serve, and would often be uncomfortably rough.


    Here is the latest on my blog about HSF.
    http://aaronstene.blogspot.com/2006/06/more-on-hsf.html
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  12. #112

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Here's the schedule of State-mandated open-to-the-public informational meetings with Superferry representatives. The first one is tonight (6/19) in Kealakekua. There's a meeting in Kamuela tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. and one tomorrow night in Hilo at 7 p.m. . Craig, you going?

    Miulang

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    http://www.kpua.net/news.php?id=8610

    Demonstrations planned against Superferry

    By Associated Press

    KAHULUI, Hawaii (AP) _ Paddlers, farmers, small-business owners and environmentalists plan to protest the Hawaii Superferry this week.

    The demonstrators want Governor Lingle to delay ferry operations until studies on harbor impacts are completed.
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  14. #114

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy
    http://www.kpua.net/news.php?id=8610

    Demonstrations planned against Superferry

    By Associated Press

    KAHULUI, Hawaii (AP) _ Paddlers, farmers, small-business owners and environmentalists plan to protest the Hawaii Superferry this week.

    The demonstrators want Governor Lingle to delay ferry operations until studies on harbor impacts are completed.
    Yeah, those danged uppity whacko liberal "politics of NO" people from Maui!

    Miulang

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    Yeah, those danged uppity whacko liberal "politics of NO" people from Maui!
    In this case, these people protesting HSF are right on frankly. As far as I can
    see this is not the politics of no, but the politics of no way HSF is not and
    will not be ready for prime time.
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  16. #116
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    No protesters at last night's meeting.
    A roomful of supporters, but zero protesters.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Oh well I guess the nay sayers had their chance...

  18. #118

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    I also think the schedule was communicated rather late, so opponents had a hard time gathering themselves together. Same won't happen on Maui, though. There should be some interesting discussions next week when the Superferry folks get to Maui,

    Miulang

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/artic...cal/local03.tx

    This is the WHT article on the Super Ferry public hearing up in Waimea.
    Apparanently things are moving so quickly on the HSF side of things
    that service may start to Kawaihae as soon as 2008.

    If I'm considered a naysayer, so be it. Except for Honolulu, none of
    the other harbors HSF will be servicing are ready or will be ready
    in time in my opinion. Take Kawaihae for example, the infrastructure
    is not there for HSF. Worse yet, all the cars coming off of the HSF
    are going to make Kawaihae junction (Of Highway 270 and Highway
    19) a huge bottleneck (There is only one way out to Kona) It is bad enough now, traffic is already backing up already at peak time. I'm really steamed
    that this is being literally shoved down our throats.
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  20. #120

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Well, Aaron, the people of Maui won't let you down. Council Chair Riki Hokama is planning to submit legislation tomorrow to slow down the progress of the Superferry on Maui. And I also expect some fireworks at the public meeting tonight and tomorrow night on Maui.

    "...Maui County Council Chairman Riki Hokama will introduce a resolution Friday that calls for the Hawaii Superferry to postpone the start of its operations at Kahului Harbor until an update of the harbor master plan and an environmental review have been completed....

    "...Hokama’s resolution "opposes the proposed commencement of operation of the Hawaii Superferry . . . at the Kahului Harbor, pending update of the Harbor Master Plan, preparation of an Environmental Impact Statement pursuant to Hawaii Revised Statutes Chapter 343, and construction of necessary improvements to adequately accommodate current harbor users and the Hawaii Superferry."

    As reasons for the action, Hokama cites the impacts on Young Brothers that will spill over and affect local businesses. He also states that "questions remain regarding the impact of the Hawaii Superferry operation on traffic circulation, potential county costs, existing harbor users and other concerns."..."

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; June 22nd, 2006 at 01:33 PM.

  21. #121
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    I'm not entirely hopeful anything short than legal action will stop this.
    The wheels are already moving. On top of that, our greatly intelligent
    HDOT habor administrators concocted a contract with HSF that mandates
    that the HDOT pay 18,000 a day if the harbor is not ready for service.
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  22. #122

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Maybe the DOT and the Superferry think it's too late to stop plans for Maui service next year, but the people on Maui are hopping mad...it also didn't help Superferry to have Young Bros holding separate meetings about the impact of Superferry on Young Bros ability to ship smaller than container loads. And there's that small matter of an $18k/day penalty that the State has to cough up if the dock at Kahului isn't completed on time...

    "...Hawaii Superferry officials sailed into Maui this week and found themselves caught in the eye of the storm.

    During three long meetings that finally broke the company’s extended silence with the general public, Maui opponents of the ambitious project tore apart nearly every aspect of the plans that they had heard about – and raised questions about the plans still being held back.

    Not a single person spoke in favor of Superferry. In fact, most were ready to mutiny.

    “Shame on you,” railed Native Hawaiian leader Leslie Kuloloio, directing his comments to leaders of both the state Department of Transportation and Superferry. “I’m so tired of this secrecy. This might involve more players than we even know about. I’m so frustrated.

    . . . This is the lousiest damn job I ever did see.”

    Kuloloio was part of the largest crowd of the week, where

    more than 100 mostly angry residents turned the Lihikai Elementary cafeteria into a rally Thursday night, complete with ovations for every speaker, catcalls for Superferry executives and pleas for Maui to follow the lead of Molokai activists who stopped a cruise ship from mooring off Kaunakakai.

    “We bless you on Molokai for standing up to the cruise ships,” said flower grower Lloyd Fischel. “This (Superferry) is going to change Maui in a big way and we have to stand up, too.”

    Whether the public outcry will make a difference is uncertain. State Deputy Transportation Director Barry Fukunaga was asked by The Maui News if the state would consider putting a hold on Superferry until issues had been resolved.

    “Whether we would do that or not is doubtful, but that’s not to say we can’t work on those areas of concern,” said Fukunaga...."

    "...Schedules will also change. Because traffic studies show that lunch hour creates some of the most crowded conditions at the intersection of Kaahumanu and Puunene avenues, O’Halloran said adjustments have been made. Under the new timetable, the ferry will arrive in Kahului at 9:30 a.m., leave for Honolulu at 10:30 a.m. and arrive on Oahu at 1:30 p.m. The vessel departs for Kahului at 6:30 a.m. the next day.

    That new schedule, however, might not appeal to the farmers and merchants who Superferry officials have hoped would use the carrier to drive their truckloads of goods to Oahu.

    Shipping by Superferry could be both cheaper and quicker than sending the products via Young Brothers. But with the planned schedule, anyone who goes to Oahu would have to spend the night.

    Dick Mayer, retired economics professor at Maui Community College, questioned the value of the low fares claimed by the Superferry. Crunching numbers, Mayer showed it would cost more for a family of four and a baby to travel with their personal van to Oahu or the Big Island than it would to fly and rent a similar vehicle. Mayer also reminded the Lihikai crowd that the low fares widely touted by Superferry would only be good between Oahu and a Neighbor Island. Anyone from Maui, Kauai or the Big Island wanting to visit another Neighbor Island would pay double – and double for their vehicles.

    “This is not a bargain form of travel,” said Mayer, who accused Superferry officials of “outright deception.”..."


    Miulang

  23. #123
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Poinography
    had a good take on the meetings too . I completely agree with his
    assessments also.
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  24. #124
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    LIKE I SAID B-4, GO 4 THE BUCK`S, NEVA MINE DA CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!!

    All hush, hush, neva mind the outcome, the traffic impact, the pest coming and going to other Islands.... This was all rush, rush rush, not enough planning..... Impact on small businesses on Molokai and Maui using Y.B.

    Mo BETTA PLAN BETTA, CAN!!!!!!!!!
    OGGBOY

  25. #125

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Sadly, the Superferry will pit Honolulu against the Neighbor Islands once again. If Young Bros is unable to ship smaller than container sized loads to the outer islands and small business owners have to use freight forwarders to handle their goods, then the cost of living for those on the Neighbor Islands will definitely go up. No one is yet willing to say by exactly how much, but everytime you add another hand to the till, the price will go up.

    The Superferry will be a much better deal for people living on Oahu who want to use it to visit the Neighbor Islands. Those estimated prices are for passage originating in Honolulu. According to one of the experts at one of the Maui Community meetings a couple of weeks ago, any Neighbor Island people wanting to visit another island will pay double what it would cost a person travelling from Honolulu.

    "...Young Brothers has subsidized the shipping of the smaller loads for years, letting the profits from other parts of their business cover the losses.

    "If Young Brothers would raise the price (of smaller loads) to be profitable or just break even, I’m not sure it would be that much cheaper than what other companies would offer," he said.

    Hong said the firm has continued to offer the pallet-sized shipping across Hawaii, even as that part of the operation sank into the red, because they know how much the public depends on it. The smaller loads make up about a fourth of the cargo business.

    "We’ve kept this service for so long because it’s been so much a part of Hawaii," he said. "If we had unlimited harbor resources, we could probably continue with moderate rate increases, but we don’t have that anymore. Harbor resources are one of our scarcest commodities."..."



    Miulang

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