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Thread: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    It was in this story from KHON.

    And also here on the Young Bros website is an official news release from Aug. 21.
    Mahalo nui for this information, I updated my blog to reflect this.
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  2. #152

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Aaron: Now the question for PBN is "why did you leave out that part of the news release about the possibility that the services are only guaranteed for the next 3 years"?

    Besides noting that the State was going to accommodate YB by finding more land offsite to offset the loss at the harbor, and that because of this, YB backed off on its application to discontinue LCL, isn't the fact that this agreement may only last until Jan. 1, 2010 the next most significant thing???

    Miulang

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    Aaron: Now the question for PBN is "why did you leave out that part of the news release about the possibility that the services are only guaranteed for the next 3 years"?
    Well guess what, I e-mailed PBN about that omission
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  4. #154

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    More information that most people don't know regarding the State's plans are for accommodating Superferry and the cruise lines and container cargo services.

    There's a DOT recommended plan for container cargo terminals for the year 2020 that's worth looking at if you care about Honolulu's waterfront. It also talks about plans for expansion of cargo terminal areas on the Neighbor Islands, too.

    The plan itself isn't dated, but I'm pretty sure it was filed BEFORE the "big news splash" from YB yesterday, so there was no "last minute deal" by the State at all. There's also the matter of SR17, which was filed by the 2006 Legislature in conjunction with the Master Plan for 2020. I guess the only new piece of information yesterday was how long YB committed to continuing the LCL services they offer.

    What's sad for the people of Maui is the MOU agreed to will probably mean the demolition of two historically significant buildings on Maui on A&B property: the Railroad Building and the Old Kahului Store, which are adjacent to the current cargo facilities. It will mean the loss of several retail businesses and wipe out the last remnants of the old Kahului.

    For Honolulu, they envision the old Kapalama Military Reserve becoming the main cargo terminal for the city (well, I guess that's slightly better than putting up condos in that area), although 55 acres is a lot of land.

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; August 22nd, 2006 at 01:31 PM.

  5. #155

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Here's the "official" skinny on the recent announcements made by YB and the State about finding more land near the harbor for YB to use for its LCL services. This time, it makes it clear that the arrangement is only temporary through Jan. 1, 2010. Finding additional land for LCL services will be tough in the area around the harbor because most of it is already developed. I still think the reason they gave that Jan. 1, 2010 date is they're figuring that Superferry will sink by then.

    In the meantime, what they plan to do with the 4 acres they have identified is just pave over the grassy areas near the buildings but leave the businesses that currently occupy the buildings alone. It looks like they're also telling Superferry that they can't have as much land as they first promised. I'm glad somebody's thinking about what's more important to the people of Maui for once.

  6. #156
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Miulang, , no offense, but you need to get a blog and blog all this stuff.
    I tell you it does wonders. Then you won't be posting to yourself all the time
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  7. #157
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    I just want the super ferry so I can drive my BMW to Honolulu and have it fixed right and cheaper than in Hilo. To ship via YB my car needs to be pallatized and that runs about $300 each way.

  8. #158

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Things are heating up again for Superferry. On Kauai and Maui, enough people are concerned about the environmental and traffic impacts that will be caused by Superferry to get support from Democratic candidate for governor Randal Iwase on Kauai and from Sen. Shan Tsutsui on Maui.

    And with the ongoing airfare war, does Superferry still think it will be able to be profitable, especially since it anticipates adding an additional $10 fuel surcharge to its fares?

    Miulang

  9. #159
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    I blogged about the public hearings here and here
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  10. #160

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    Things are heating up again for Superferry. On Kauai and Maui, enough people are concerned about the environmental and traffic impacts that will be caused by Superferry to get support from Democratic candidate for governor Randal Iwase on Kauai and from Sen. Shan Tsutsui on Maui.

    And with the ongoing airfare war, does Superferry still think it will be able to be profitable, especially since it anticipates adding an additional $10 fuel surcharge to its fares?

    Miulang
    Here's what I don't understand, why didn't the State require an EIS even before Superferry went this far down the road? And did all these opponents raise an issue about EIS early in the beginning of the Superferry proposal?

    I think Superferry will be able to be profitable considering even with the additional $10 fuel surcharge because their listed fares for just passengers is still less than airfare, not including the current crazy $19 unsustainable pricing war. Then you gotta add in businesses and their cargo trucks that will use the ferry. Plus, if they do secure that contract with the DoD.

  11. #161

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree

    I think Superferry will be able to be profitable considering even with the additional $10 fuel surcharge because their listed fares for just passengers is still less than airfare, not including the current crazy $19 unsustainable pricing war. Then you gotta add in businesses and their cargo trucks that will use the ferry. Plus, if they do secure that contract with the DoD.
    Businesses and their cargo won't have that easy a time getting aboard Superferry. They can't just drop off their cargo. Superferry has stated that it will not transport unescorted cargo.Every truck has to have a driver to accompany the load.

    We speculated many months ago that what Superferry wants is that DoD contract to ferry personnel and equipment between Oahu and the training site at Pohakuloa. And if they get that contract, do the local passengers get put on standby? And for neighbor island residents who don't want to just go on to Oahu, they get to pay for 2 legs of a trip one way and end up having to stop in Honolulu, so as appealing as it may sound, it ain't gonna be cheap or timely for Neighbor Island residents.

    The Counties thought the DoT knew what it was doing (which the DoT did know, but just it wasn't doing what the Counties thought it was doing, like requesting an EIS for each port). Now the DoT is saying that no other form of interisland transportation has ever required an EIS, which is why they didn't believe an EIS was necessary. Horse manure. Just because it wasn't ever done before doesn't mean it shouldn't be done now. And what kind of stupidity is it for the State to be held hostage by Superferry in its agreement to pay Superferry $20k for every month the project gets delayed? What the State and Superferry obviously don't get is that most people still want Superferry, but they also want that EIS to be done first, which I think is a prudent move. And 3 groups in Maui County + Maui County itself will probably end up pursuing their court case to slow down the Superferry until an EIS is done.

    Miulang

  12. #162

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    Businesses and their cargo won't have that easy a time getting aboard Superferry. They can't just drop off their cargo. Superferry has stated that it will not transport unescorted cargo.Every truck has to have a driver to accompany the load.

    We speculated many months ago that what Superferry wants is that DoD contract to ferry personnel and equipment between Oahu and the training site at Pohakuloa. And if they get that contract, do the local passengers get put on standby? And for neighbor island residents who don't want to just go on to Oahu, they get to pay for 2 legs of a trip one way and end up having to stop in Honolulu, so as appealing as it may sound, it ain't gonna be cheap or timely for Neighbor Island residents.

    The Counties thought the DoT knew what it was doing (which the DoT did know, but just it wasn't doing what the Counties thought it was doing, like requesting an EIS for each port). Now the DoT is saying that no other form of interisland transportation has ever required an EIS, which is why they didn't believe an EIS was necessary. Horse manure. Just because it wasn't ever done before doesn't mean it shouldn't be done now. And what kind of stupidity is it for the State to be held hostage by Superferry in its agreement to pay Superferry $20k for every month the project gets delayed? What the State and Superferry obviously don't get is that most people still want Superferry, but they also want that EIS to be done first, which I think is a prudent move. And 3 groups in Maui County + Maui County itself will probably end up pursuing their court case to slow down the Superferry until an EIS is done.

    Miulang

    I was referring to the type of cargo that would be accompanied by a driver. Presently, I am sure there are businesses with cargos that they would love to just drive from one island to the other but can't. The ferry would act as the bridge. These cargos can't be shipped via barge due to time sensitivity such as fresh flowers and produce. I am assuming right now, all of these products are transported via air freight.

    As for the DoD contract, as long as it doesn't interfere with scheduled commercial service, I really see no problem with that. Does anyone have details? Do they plan on loading/unloading military equipment at civilian facilities? If the DoD contract merely is to use the ferry vessels during non scheduled hours and at naval facilities, ie. Pearl Harbor, to do the loading/unloading, I don't see the contract as a negative. Hawaiian and Aloha have bidded and serviced military contracts for transport in the past so why can't Superferry?

    As for neighbor island residents not going to Oahu as their final destination, that's where flying may still make more sense. No offense to the neighbor islands, but the heart of commerce and urbanization is on Oahu so it makes sense for any transport business to use Oahu as the hub. Perhaps when future demand and patterns justify it, they may run a vessel direct between two neighbor islands.

    As for EIS, yes I agree it's always good to run one. But I find it controversial to hold up Superferry especially if it did all that is required on its end in the beginning. If you were a business and you applied to a state to do business, did all that was required, wouldn't you be upset about a delay just because the gov't couldn't get it's inhouse business in order? After all, there's $40 million dollars worth of boats being built as we speak. Delays are a big deal since the boats are built with financing which means they owe interest and any delays means not getting any revenue to start repaying the loans.

    I understand the premise that just because previous inter-island transports did not have to do an EIS for each port in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't do one now. But that means it's not mandated within the gov't rules and regulations and people need to fix that, not take it out on Superferry. It really does give Hawaii the reputation of a bad place to do business when you can't get a firm yes or no from the gov't. As for the hostage/stupidity of the State in paying for delay fees...well..that's called a contract right? Gov'ts can hold business accountable for delay fees, it's fair that it can go the other way around.

    To me, it seems there are special interest groups on the anti-ferry side trying to engage in loophole tactics. There are companies that will stand to lose if a ferry service is available. At the end of the day, I honestly think Hawaii needs an interisland ferry to strengthen it's inter-island transport system. People then won't have to complain that air transport is the only means of getting from one island to another.

  13. #163
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    As I've mentioned before, I don't like the fact this is being shoved
    down our throats. On top of that, our harbors are already maxed
    out. Plus on top of that, I'm not sure our roadway infrastructure
    will be able to support all these additional cars. Lastly, there is the
    possibility of invasive species having an easier time getting between
    the islands.

    Yes, it is very likely this service will move forward. But that doesn't stop me
    from voicing my opinion. I can always go back and say "I told you so" when
    this service causes problems down the line.
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  14. #164

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy
    As I've mentioned before, I don't like the fact this is being shoved
    down our throats. On top of that, our harbors are already maxed
    out. Plus on top of that, I'm not sure our roadway infrastructure
    will be able to support all these additional cars. Lastly, there is the
    possibility of invasive species having an easier time getting between
    the islands.

    Yes, it is very likely this service will move forward. But that doesn't stop me
    from voicing my opinion. I can always go back and say "I told you so" when
    this service causes problems down the line.

    Oops, my mistake, the superferry project actually needs more like $210 million in financing.

    Has it really been shoved down our throats? From what I can research on the web, annoucement of the ferry system was in 2003. But real opposition to the ferry on the account of an EIS didn't really happen till 2005. Where were these people during that time interim? If I'm missing some vital info, please fill me in.

    As for harbor space, I thought that's where the State was supposed to come into play. Didn't they agree to do $40 mil in harbor upgrades? Maybe it's the State that's lagging.

    Possibility of invasive species, yes. Any easier? Don't see it any easier than on a plane. The vessel won't use any ballast water so no threat of carrying marine invasive species. So I guess the main threat is what people bring with them. But as far as I understand, they will do a similar agricultural inspection like they do at the airport. So no better, no worse.

  15. #165
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    We speculated many months ago that what Superferry wants is (...)
    "We"? Who exactly is "we"? And specifically what insider information does "we" have in hand in order to speculate about what Superferry wants? Or is "we" just psychic? Vulcan mind-meld, perhaps? Tarot? Tea leaves? Sheesh. How utterly and completely silly.


    That's almost as bad as the Honolulu Weakly's recent article attacking Superferry by saying that the ferry would be more expensive than flying, since flights are down to $19. What an incredibly stupid article! As if flights are going to stay at $19 once this promotion is over. Oh, and the Weakly writer also conveniently forgot to mention how very few of those $19 fares are available. DOH.

    Of course, I'm just speculating.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  16. #166
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree
    Has it really been shoved down our throats? From what I can research on the web, announcement of the ferry system was in 2003. But real opposition to the ferry on the account of an EIS didn't really happen till 2005. Where were these people during that time interim? If I'm missing some vital info, please fill me in.
    According this time line
    planning for the Super Ferry started in 2001.But it seemed these were
    preliminary inquiries into the viability of this service. But nonetheless, as
    a longtime kama'aina, I staunchly still believe this HSF service is being
    shoved down our throat.


    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree
    As for harbor space, I thought that's where the State was supposed to come into play. Didn't they agree to do $40 mil in harbor upgrades? Maybe it's the State that's lagging.
    If you think 40 million is going to cover the harbor upgrades, I got some land
    in Kalapana I got to sell you. Take Kawaihae on the Big Island, for example.
    It is going to cost more than 40 million there to have adequate infrastructure
    in place. Aside that, the 40 million I believe is for the barges which the HSF
    will dock at each port.

    I'm not even getting into the how the additional vehicles will impact the roadway infrastructure.

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree
    Possibility of invasive species, yes. Any easier? Don't see it any easier than on a plane. The vessel won't use any ballast water so no threat of carrying marine invasive species. So I guess the main threat is what people bring with them. But as far as I understand, they will do a similar agricultural inspection like they do at the airport. So no better, no worse.
    If you think the HDOA will have enough manpower to do inspections, I got
    a news flash for you. They don't even have enough to monitor airplane
    passengers (at least in Kona). Aside that on a aircraft you can't take
    your car with you, which increases the chances of invasive species being
    transported between the islands.
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  17. #167

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui
    "We"? Who exactly is "we"? And specifically what insider information does "we" have in hand in order to speculate about what Superferry wants? Or is "we" just psychic? Vulcan mind-meld, perhaps? Tarot? Tea leaves? Sheesh. How utterly and completely silly.


    Lika, I brought it up almost exactly one year ago (post #6) and there was some discussion at that time. Too bad you didn't put your two cents in at the time.

    Miulang
    FYI: 3 of the Board Members have Navy connections: Lehman (the chairman), Krekel (vice chair), and Shirley.
    Last edited by Miulang; September 28th, 2006 at 04:45 PM.

  18. #168

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy
    According this time line
    planning for the Super Ferry started in 2001.But it seemed these were
    preliminary inquiries into the viability of this service. But nonetheless, as
    a longtime kama'aina, I staunchly still believe this HSF service is being
    shoved down our throat.




    If you think 40 million is going to cover the harbor upgrades, I got some land
    in Kalapana I got to sell you. Take Kawaihae on the Big Island, for example.
    It is going to cost more than 40 million there to have adequate infrastructure
    in place. Aside that, the 40 million I believe is for the barges which the HSF
    will dock at each port.

    I'm not even getting into the how the additional vehicles will impact the roadway infrastructure.



    If you think the HDOA will have enough manpower to do inspections, I got
    a news flash for you. They don't even have enough to monitor airplane
    passengers (at least in Kona). Aside that on a aircraft you can't take
    your car with you, which increases the chances of invasive species being
    transported between the islands.


    Yeah, I saw the timeline too but the earliest public reports I can find about the Superferry is 2003 so I'll choose that year as when the public officially became aware of the project. That still gives well over a year for someone to raise the fuss about an EIS which again did not happen till early 2005 so what happened there? That's why I don't believe the project's being crammed down our throats. Earliest public article I can find on HSF is PBN on 6/16/03. Construction of ships started on 6/4/04. Senate Bill 1785 which requires EIS was introduced on 1/27/05. Why this delay? Is it because opponents figured HSF was all talk until they actually started ship construction?

    Pier 19 in Honolulu was rebulit with a ferry terminal at about $5 million in 2003. This includes a 12000 sq ft terminal for ticket sales, customer processing, passenger and vehicle waiting, baggage and claim and other services. So $40 million can do a lot of improvements. I don't disagree that a more permanent means of providing loading/unloading a RoRo ferry is needed. But it seems the State has chosen an ad hoc way by using barges. If you look at the link below, you can see because the ferry is rear loading, a portion of the pier needs to jut out into the water to meet the vessels rear hatch, thus the use of barges. Maybe the State is employing barges instead of something permanent to see if HSF will be a hit or a miss first? Either way though, the issue about harbor facilities is with the State. HSF gave the specs of what kind of vessels they will use to the State early on. And the State agreed to improve facilties to accomodate HSF. People should be complaining to the State about their methods to accomodate HSF, not HSF themselves. Same goes with the issue of traffic.

    http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/as...1103821024.GIF

    Regarding HDOA, that's an issue of manpower then. That doesn't make the concept of HSF any more or less prone to invasive species. If there's not even enough HDOA for flights, would you say airlines are at fault for that too? In regards to cars, what happens with cars that go by barge between islands these days? Isn't the same risk there?

  19. #169

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    From what I can recall, the reason why the DoT wanted to use a barge in Kahului Harbor is because they didn't want to have to go through an EIS because it would take too much time to conduct. An EIS would have been required if more permanent docking space was being built. The Maui litigants in the Superferry suit don't want to punish Superferry, they just want the EIS conducted to study the effects of ANY increased volumes in Kahului Harbor (including more cruise ship dockings and YB shipments, as well as Superferry). Maui County is trying to put together a study of harbor usage to include in its master plan for development, too.

    Maui County has been griping longest (since before 2005) because Kahului Harbor will be the first one impacted, and the one with the most problems with adding more volume to the already-crowded facilities. Since they want to tack on a barge to the end of Pier 2, it's going to be really interesting to see how that daily traffic will work with an NCL cruise ship docked 6 days out of 7 on Pier 3, along with the Matson/Young Bros barges, and with the canoe club practicing in that harbor on the Wailuku side. (back in the good old days, I caught a papio off the side of Pier 2 one time).

    Miulang

    P.S. in searching through the Maui News archives, one of the first public comments about Superferry was received around November, 2004.
    Last edited by Miulang; September 28th, 2006 at 06:48 PM.

  20. #170
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree
    That's why I don't believe the project's being crammed down our throats.
    Nonetheless, I have and always will believe this project is being crammed
    down our throats. If there was any aloha how residents felt an EIS should've
    been done from the onset. Yes, I've read an EIS is not necessary for HSF.
    But to me HSF is different than YB, Matson,cruise ships. As HSF will carry
    both passengers and vehicles.

    Maybe the State is employing barges instead of something permanent to see if HSF will be a hit or a miss first? Either way though, the issue about harbor facilities is with the State. HSF gave the specs of what kind of vessels they will use to the State early on. And the State agreed to improve facilities to accommodate HSF. People should be complaining to the State about their methods to accommodate HSF, not HSF themselves. Same goes with the issue of traffic.
    The State is employing barges so they can skirt doing any EA for the harbors.
    Since technically a barge is not a physical improvement to the harbor, an
    EA is not necessary. As for infrastructure, it is my understanding HSF will
    be responsible for the buildings on the land, not the state. The state is
    only responsible for the construction of the barges, hence the 40 million.
    So people will have to use port-a-potties at least initially for example when
    waiting for HSF.

    As for traffic impacts, it is HSF's fault squarely . If they didn't start service,
    the forthcoming traffic jams and deadly accidents would not be happening
    at Akoni Pule Highway/Queen Kaahumanu Highway intersection (Above Kawaihae).

    Regarding HDOA, that's an issue of manpower then. That doesn't make the concept of HSF any more or less prone to invasive species. If there's not even enough HDOA for flights, would you say airlines are at fault for that too? In regards to cars, what happens with cars that go by barge between islands these days? Isn't the same risk there?

    I completely disagree, if HDOA doesn't have enough manpower,
    it will definitely cause things to slip through. Same goes with
    the way the way it is currently. There is probably things slip
    through due to lax airport inspections.It is the fault of HDOA
    for not having not enough inspectors,not the airlines. As for
    your question, the risk is not as great when only cars get shipped.
    Its when you mix both people and cars...
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  21. #171

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang
    From what I can recall, the reason why the DoT wanted to use a barge in Kahului Harbor is because they didn't want to have to go through an EIS because it would take too much time to conduct. An EIS would have been required if more permanent docking space was being built. The Maui litigants in the Superferry suit don't want to punish Superferry, they just want the EIS conducted to study the effects of ANY increased volumes in Kahului Harbor (including more cruise ship dockings and YB shipments, as well as Superferry). Maui County is trying to put together a study of harbor usage to include in its master plan for development, too.

    Maui County has been griping longest (since before 2005) because Kahului Harbor will be the first one impacted, and the one with the most problems with adding more volume to the already-crowded facilities. Since they want to tack on a barge to the end of Pier 2, it's going to be really interesting to see how that daily traffic will work with an NCL cruise ship docked 6 days out of 7 on Pier 3, along with the Matson/Young Bros barges, and with the canoe club practicing in that harbor on the Wailuku side. (back in the good old days, I caught a papio off the side of Pier 2 one time).

    Miulang

    P.S. in searching through the Maui News archives, one of the first public comments about Superferry was received around November, 2004.

    Hmm, then it sounds to me the State's trying to skirt some issues themselves in order to build a more permanent docking solution. I don't know Kahului Harbor as well but maybe they could just simply use another pier besides Pier 2? I see your link to a concern in Nov 04, but that still makes me wonder why they waited that long considering it seems Kahului has already experienced this problem way before HSF's proposed entry. 3 NCL ships can dock in the harbor yet they didn't have to do a single EIS. Maybe a new arrangement could be made with NCL to simply have their ships lay anchor in the harbor rather than dock and use smaller boats to ferry passengers to and from the docks. Many smaller Carribean islands do this since they simply don't have docks capable of handling cruise ships. While you say the Maui litigants don't want to punish HSF, the mere delays caused by the lawsuit is punishment for HSF. The ships ordered are more or less custom built so what are they gonna do with them if delayed while accruing interest? What about the crew hired and trained to run the ships?

  22. #172
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree
    Hmm, then it sounds to me the State's trying to skirt some issues themselves in order to build a more permanent docking solution.
    As I mentioned, I believe its the state's way to not do a EIS. If any changes
    are done to the harbor itself, I believe an EIS has to be done. Since they
    are going to be using these barges,Its technically not a change to the harbor.
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  23. #173

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy
    Nonetheless, I have and always will believe this project is being crammed
    down our throats. If there was any aloha how residents felt an EIS should've
    been done from the onset. Yes, I've read an EIS is not necessary for HSF.
    But to me HSF is different than YB, Matson,cruise ships. As HSF will carry
    both passengers and vehicles.



    The State is employing barges so they can skirt doing any EA for the harbors.
    Since technically a barge is not a physical improvement to the harbor, an
    EA is not necessary. As for infrastructure, it is my understanding HSF will
    be responsible for the buildings on the land, not the state. The state is
    only responsible for the construction of the barges, hence the 40 million.
    So people will have to use port-a-potties at least initially for example when
    waiting for HSF.

    As for traffic impacts, it is HSF's fault squarely . If they didn't start service,
    the forthcoming traffic jams and deadly accidents would not be happening
    at Akoni Pule Highway/Queen Kaahumanu Highway intersection (Above Kawaihae).




    I completely disagree, if HDOA doesn't have enough manpower,
    it will definitely cause things to slip through. Same goes with
    the way the way it is currently. There is probably things slip
    through due to lax airport inspections.It is the fault of HDOA
    for not having not enough inspectors,not the airlines. As for
    your question, the risk is not as great when only cars get shipped.
    Its when you mix both people and cars...
    I dunno bout using aloha as an argument. Business is best conducted by sticking to the rules. If you want to use the aloha argument, I could easily argue why is there no aloha for HSF? Why wait till after they've committed to building some expensive ships before raising hell and filing lawsuits for EIS? If EIS was such a big deal, why is NCL able to dock 3 different cruise ships in Kahului Harbor 6 days out of the week with no EIS? A cruise ship is even bigger than HSF and holds more passengers. A cruise ship actually uses ocean water for ballasts. Shouldn't they have pushed to revise the law to require an EIS each time some entity wants to conducts business in the harbor?

    Yeah, I can see the barge as a way to skip EIS but that's the State's decision, don't think HSF said they would like to specifically dock and unload/load via barge.

    Okay, now your statements are starting to lose logic and contain more of an emotional aspect. When HSF approached the State and said "here's the business plan we propose", isn't it up to DoT to look at it and question, "what's gonna happen with the number of vehicles unloading/loading in such a short time frame at the harbor?" Wouldn't it be up to DoT to say, "look, we're not gonna approve because the impact is too much for the current infrastructure not unless HSF helps out with improving the infrastructure?" And you're already predicting traffic jams and deadly accidents and blaming them on HSF. Why not blame the guy who was busy on the cell phone while driving that would cause this future deadly fatality? Heck, why not blame the car manufacturer for building that car that was in the deadly accident? If they didn't build cars, there would be no car accidents.

    I dunno how you are disagreeing with me. Judging by your statement, you are agreeing it is a manpower issue and that's what I said. The HSF concept is no more or less prone to invasive issues as airlines. The problem is HDOA manpower but that is not HSF's fault.

    How is mixing people with cars more risky than just cars being shipped in regards to invasive species? If I took a car offroading and say I picked up some fireants in the wheel wells, then took it down to the barges to be shipped by itself, I'm still transporting the fireants to another island.

  24. #174
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree
    If EIS was such a big deal, why is NCL able to dock 3 different cruise ships in Kahului Harbor 6 days out of the week with no EIS? A cruise ship is even bigger than HSF and holds more passengers.
    But cruise ships can't carry cars. That is the difference between a cruise
    ship and HSF. A cruise ship, takes their passengers and leave. With HSF
    you have both passengers and cars. Thus causing more of an impact
    on our roadway infrastructure.

    Yeah, I can see the barge as a way to skip EIS but that's the State's decision, don't think HSF said they would like to specifically dock and unload/load via barge.
    It is a perfect example of the state appeasing big money interests over
    the little guy.

    And you're already predicting traffic jams and deadly accidents and blaming them on HSF.
    Because traffic jams are already occurring at that said intersection. I can only
    speak for what I see. Have you ever been to Kawaihae ? Maybe if you did you'd gain some perspective on why I have issues with HSF.

    I dunno how you are disagreeing with me. Judging by your statement, you are agreeing it is a manpower issue and that's what I said. The HSF concept is no more or less prone to invasive issues as airlines. The problem is HDOA manpower but that is not HSF's fault.
    It is HSF's fault because they want to start service and the infrastructure
    is not ready. Be it in the personnel or physical infrastructure.

    How is mixing people with cars more risky than just cars being shipped in regards to invasive species? If I took a car offroading and say I picked up some fireants in the wheel wells, then took it down to the barges to be shipped by itself, I'm still transporting the fireants to another island.
    It is when you mix a bunch of people with a bunch of cars it spells trouble
    to me. A car by itself can't bring invasive species. Have you ever seen car bring a coqui frog ?
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

  25. #175
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy
    If you think 40 million is going to cover the harbor upgrades, I got some land in Kalapana I got to sell you. Take Kawaihae on the Big Island, for example. It is going to cost more than 40 million there to have adequate infrastructure in place.
    Do you have facts to back that up, or is that just speculation again?

    Aside that, the 40 million I believe is for the barges which the HSF
    will dock at each port.
    You "believe"? I repeat, are there facts to back that up, or is it just speculation again?

    I'm not even getting into the how the additional vehicles will impact the roadway infrastructure.
    As opposed to vehicles which come over by barge, which of course don't impact the infrastructure. Only vehicles arrive by Superferry will cause damage.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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