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  • Mass Transit...

    As traffic problems on Oahu will only get worse, what's YOUR vision of Mass Transit?

    Monorail system?
    Improved Bus system?
    Or??

  • #2
    Re: Mass Transit...

    I've been a longtime supporter of light rail, and I'm absolutely apalled at the unstoppable force and inevitable disaster that is Jeremy's BRT plan. For such a small island, it's hard to believe we handle transportation so badly.

    Frankly, I wish we at least had a decent network of bike paths and trails.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mass Transit...

      I don't know if there's any news on this, but most of the people in my neighborhood in Waipahu works in downtown.

      How about having ferries transport people? Maybe 2-3 ferries for the "major" towns (Waipahu, Ewa/Ewa beach, and Kapolei, and/or probably Nanakuli, Maili, and Waianae side). Those ferries will be able to carry people from specific "docks" in the towns, and drop them off at various locations (near Ala Moana, the harbors, and Waikiki).

      The only disadvantage I see, is the cost of the ferries and operators, and the ability of people "stomaching" a daily commute on a ferry. It won't be a smooth ride, but it's one alternative.
      How'd I get so white and nerdy?

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      • #4
        Re: Mass Transit...

        Having some kind of rail line sharing the same road as the cars I think is a very dangerous one at least in the first year or two of operation. Having either an elevated or underground line is too expensive to build and operate.

        So I guess more and frequent buses.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mass Transit...

          The big problem is that people here are, for some reason, deathly afraid of walking further than 20 feet from their car to where ever they're going. Evidence? Look at bizzarro vultures at Ala Moana waiting 40 minutes to park close to the center when there are acres of parking on the third deck by Shirokiya and Macy's. Whoa, wait, gotta walk a little. Trains require people to walk at least several blocks to thier destinations. People here won't do it.

          Trains are the way to go, frankly. But if they build them, "they" will never come. There are too many lazy people here.

          When I lived in Japan, I had to walk 15 minutes from my house to my station, then ride, transfer, walking another 5 minutes (and then ride standing, god forbid, crammed like a sardine), then getting off at the final destination, then walking another 15 minutes to my building -- then lather, rinse, repeat in the evening. And that was a short commute. I knew people who would walk at least a half hour to the station. Some had to bus to the station (not to mention the walk to the bus stop). Some rode bicycles -- now that's a foreign concept.

          Oddly enough, people are kinda healthy in Japan.

          I routinely walk to assignments in downtown or neighboring areas. I walk for miles for my liquor (never drive when having cocktails). I have serious wonders about people who have aversions to walking.

          Super Size me, dammit. And bring it to my table while yer at it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mass Transit...

            Originally posted by pzarquon
            I've been a longtime supporter of light rail, and I'm absolutely apalled at the unstoppable force and inevitable disaster that is Jeremy's BRT plan. For such a small island, it's hard to believe we handle transportation so badly.

            Frankly, I wish we at least had a decent network of bike paths and trails.
            I've also been frustrated by how long it's taken to get light rail here.

            A limited defense of BRT: In some places where it's been tried, most notably Sao Paulo, Brazil, it's been a great success. Much cheaper to build and maintain than rail; nearly as fast if dedicated lanes are provided. The problem is that you need a critical mass of ridership for this to work - this prevents the dedicated lanes from generating even more auto congestion on the remaining lanes.

            IMHO, one of the main difference here is both economic and culture. In Brazil, the average standard of living is lower, the generally lower cost of BRT compared to rail makes a real difference in demand. Secondly, there is no cultural stigma attached to riding the bus as there is in much of the U.S. I do think that there are people here who would ride a light rail but refused to ride a bus, even if there was no difference in speed or convenience.
            Sun-Ki Chai
            崔勝基 (최승기)
            sunki@hawaii.edu
            www2.hawaii.edu/~sunki/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mass Transit...

              Originally posted by dick
              The big problem is that people here are, for some reason, deathly afraid of walking further than 20 feet from their car to where ever they're going. Evidence? Look at bizzarro vultures at Ala Moana waiting 40 minutes to park close to the center when there are acres of parking on the third deck by Shirokiya and Macy's. Whoa, wait, gotta walk a little. Trains require people to walk at least several blocks to thier destinations. People here won't do it.

              Trains are the way to go, frankly. But if they build them, "they" will never come. There are too many lazy people here.

              When I lived in Japan, I had to walk 15 minutes from my house to my station, then ride, transfer, walking another 5 minutes (and then ride standing, god forbid, crammed like a sardine), then getting off at the final destination, then walking another 15 minutes to my building -- then lather, rinse, repeat in the evening. And that was a short commute. I knew people who would walk at least a half hour to the station. Some had to bus to the station (not to mention the walk to the bus stop). Some rode bicycles -- now that's a foreign concept.

              Oddly enough, people are kinda healthy in Japan.

              I routinely walk to assignments in downtown or neighboring areas. I walk for miles for my liquor (never drive when having cocktails). I have serious wonders about people who have aversions to walking.

              Super Size me, dammit. And bring it to my table while yer at it.
              I'd walk 15 minutes to my destination after getting of a rail system, but I don't that much time to kill walking. My classes start at 8:00, and I catch the 6:15 Rout A bus at the Waipahu Transit. The ride takes me atleast 1 hour, and usually I have to do something before classes start.

              One way to alliviate the traffic problems, is either buy a smaller car if your the only one in it, or use your humungous SUV or van to carpool other people to their work.

              I don't see why a single person would be driving an Escalade or Navigator like a pimp in NYC. If you have that much money, then move to somewhere closer to your workplace.
              How'd I get so white and nerdy?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mass Transit...

                One thing with a rail system, is that it would have to have frequent trains, and those trains would have to run on time. For some reason, I can't see that happening in Hawaii. I use Japan as an example only because I used the trains there daily. And I could set my watch by the trains there (unless someone jumped in front of a train - which happened startlingly often). I had it down to a pattern where I could walk from my house and get to my office right on schedule every day. No waiting, no hassles (aside from stuffed trains). The train system there is an art, really. If something efficient and "real" could be set up here, people would probably get into it. I often feel kinda guilty because my job requires me to drive everywhere (for the most part), and I'm often by myself. Thus I drive a small car. There are too many jerks out there driving those stoopid (sic) SUVs for no other reason than to look "cool" and drive something big. Anything over a small car's GVW should require a special licence. I've seen idiots driving these things who take forever just to park in a normal parking space. If you can't handle the vehicle, you shouldn't be driving it. Another idea would be to tax the living crap out of people who drive these things. An SUV tax, if you will - anything over a certain GVW pays triple the taxes. Cripes, I smoke and drink and pay retardo taxes on my vices, why shouldn't these people, too?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mass Transit...

                  Light rail would be wonderful but as the past opinions suggest...people wouldn't use it. And they would never be on time! It's so true that you can set your watch to the rail systems in Japan. You just have to know the schedule and sure enough...the train comes, ON TIME!
                  Retired Senior Member

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                  • #10
                    Re: Mass Transit...

                    "Look at bizzarro vultures at Ala Moana waiting 40 minutes to park close"

                    Ain't it the truth! I just can't believe some of those motorized-wheel people who drive round and round trying to get a spot where they won't have to walk more than six feet to the store.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mass Transit...

                      No matter what system gets installed, there's gonna be a problem with all the people who live back in valleys or up on ridges. Somehow there has to be a way to get them to the line. For example, I live 1.5 miles up a hill; walking down might not be a problem at 0730, but I'll be damned if I want to walk back up at 1800, probably with some packages from a grocery store.

                      You need some sort of "park and ride" system, which is/was partially in place for TheBus; I remember working in Mililani and seeing one right across from the National Guard building above the freeway, but it never looked overly full.

                      I rode some of those Japanese trains and subways, btw. I still remember the "pushers" trying to get you on the cars.
                      http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

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                      • #12
                        Re: Mass Transit...

                        The van that they use for the Mililani Trolley might be useful for feeding the lines, but they have to come more frequently. I think the Milliani one just uses one van to service the route at least during the weekend.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mass Transit...

                          Isn't it fun in Japan...the pushers! Even the elderly aren't polite when it comes to getting onto the train! They push and shove with the best of them! And yet while they're waiting for the trolley here in Waikiki...they wait patiently...no pushing or shoving!
                          Retired Senior Member

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                          • #14
                            Re: Mass Transit...

                            Those japanese people sounds like fun

                            But I have my watch set for the bus's time (and ironically, its synced with my school's time) and ever since schools breaked for summer, I've been catching the 6:00am Route A bus from the Waipahu Transit with a few seconds to spare.
                            How'd I get so white and nerdy?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mass Transit...

                              The "pushers" as they have been referred to on this thread, serve an important purpose. Since the trains must run on schedule, if the doors don't close at the appointed time, the trains will run late. Anyone not in the doorway isn't allowed into the train when the bell rings. Anyone with an appendage in the train is then stuffed in, and any arms or legs sticking out are also subsequently stuffed in (thus, if you want to be on a certain train, it's critical that you get at least a foot in the door so that you'll be stuffed in). It works brilliantly. Of course fights would break out here if that were to happen on a Hawaii train. The whole culture and concept behind commuting is so different. I can honestly say that even were a train system built here, it would never amount to much just because people are lazy and afraid of mass transit. Live too far from the station? Well, how about bicycling there? Live on a hill? Well, I lived on a hill and walked straight up, but found that I was losing weight and gaining energy. Bus systems should be adjusted to feed the rail system and not compete with it. It's that easy. Of course, it would take gridlock and lack of any reasonable parking to get people to "get with the program." Oh wait, I forgot, everyone needs an SUV and needs to be three feet from thier destination. I can only hope Honolulu gets to this point (of critical mass), and soon.

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