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  • #16
    Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

    Well when this whole situation with the Carlyle Group acquiring
    Verizon Hawaii last year. I had my concerns about it, thus I
    have been following the HT transition very closely. Especially
    since I have been very happy with my HT DSL service.
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

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    • #17
      Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

      Looks like the letter that the Advertiser rejected got printed in the Editorial section of the Star Bulletin this past Sunday:

      http://starbulletin.com/2006/01/08/e...mmentary2.html

      For some reason, Peter has chosen to put himself out there as the champion for Road Runner. He even has a similar spot about DSL running on his _Your Computer Minute_ on KSSK. Personally, I think in his effort to dispel the _shibai_, he has only created more confusion. I can only guess what the motivation is behind all this. If you look where ever Peter's DSL dissing runs, you will see a Road Runner ad.
      Check out Bytemarks the blog and Bytemarks the Yahoogroup

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      • #18
        Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

        Disclaimer: I have used both Road Runner and Hawaiian Telcom DSL.

        I read the editorial in question, I believe Peter Kay is right on with his
        assesment of Cable modems/DSL. I don't believe he has caused anymore confusion, as factually I did not see any errors in hia article.

        The main difference between Cable Modems and DSL is, DSL has a dedicated
        circuit to the central office, while cable modems share bandwith from the
        CPE on through the headend to the Internet.But DSL users share bandwith
        from the Central Office to the Internet. In short this debate will continue
        on until the end of time.Personally I believe DSL gives more consistent bandwith than Road Runner ever did.
        Check out my blog on Kona issues :
        The Kona Blog

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        • #19
          Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

          I don't think he adequately pointed out that DSL is dedicated from the DSL modem in your home to the central office. That is where the point of contention is. We all know that from the backbone on, the Internet is all shared. In Road Runner's case it is shared from your home/neighborhood as well.
          Check out Bytemarks the blog and Bytemarks the Yahoogroup

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          • #20
            Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

            Fascinating.
            One little detail our friends somehow forgot to mention is that with Hawaiian Telcom's DSL technology, the farther away you are from the telephone exchange, the slower your service will be. Funny how those little detrimental details get left out of the cute ads, huh?
            And the more people on your block using RoadRunner, the slower your service will be. And what company on Earth advertises their own disadvantages?

            As far as I can tell, at least based on my own experience, RoadRunner was far more susceptible to very local variations in service quality.
            DSL provides a dedicated line only to the nearest telephone exchange, after which DSL users share connections just like everyone else to enter and move around the Internet, which is where most slowdowns occur.
            Firstly, again, my problems with RoadRunner were definitely caused by my immediate area, not from the greater Internet. At Oceanic's end, they were convinced everything was always hunky dory... but I could call my neighbors and prove it not to be the case. Some kid downloading first-run movies off a P2P network, no doubt.

            Two, DSL being secure "only to the nearest telephone exchange" still makes the "don't share straws" analogy valid, IMHO. Sure, after a certain point, all traffic mingles. But on DSL, at least I've got a "zipper lane" at least to the nearest Hawaiian Telcom bunker. On RoadRunner, I'm in a crowd the moment I get out of my driveway.
            Roadrunner's maximum download speed is 5 million bits per second (referred to as "megabits per second," or "mbps"). In contrast, DSL's maximum download speed is 3 mbps, according to their own Web site.
            Well, RoadRunner is always going to crow about their "maximum download speed," but that's in a perfect world where everyone within a five-mile radius decided to stay off the internet for an evening. I might have had moments where RoadRunner was faster than DSL, but at least on DSL, I've found transfer rates to be more consistent. I sure like it better than having to think, "Well, I'll wait until after 11 p.m. to grab this file, otherwise, it'll take forever."
            Contrary to what the DSL commercials say, Roadrunner subscribers can hook up multiple computers to a single cable connection at no extra charge by using an inexpensive wireless router, just as DSL users can.
            Then this is something recent, and definitely post-DSL explosion, because I most definitely reading limitations on the number of systems that could piggyback on my cable modem when I was with Oceanic. It seemed ridiculous to me (like the Board of Water Supply telling me I couldn't hook up two hoses to a spigot in my yard without paying extra), but it was policy. There was some gobbledygook about dynamic IPs and stuff like that, but of course everyone hooked up routers anyway, and had few problems.

            The invokation of the words "shibai" and "hype" are particularly ironic, I think. Publicly calling out Hawaiian Telcom because "the advertising is misleading and appears to be designed to confuse" is a reach, because (1.) Oceanic is just as guilty as playing the asterisk and fine print game ("get it for only $9.95 a month and then we'll take you for all you're worth when you've forgotten about signing up"), and (2.) if anyone at Oceanic's corporate office really objected to HiTel's characterizations, they would have gone to the PUC or file some other complaint.
            See, what's cool about geeks is that we can't lie.
            He's kidding, right? Geeks get away with a lot specifically because we throw jargon around.
            In the interest of complete disclosure, you should know that the Roadrunner cable people sponsor "Your Computer Minute," my computer advice spots on the radio.
            Which have shrunk to "Your Computer Few Seconds," about half of which are, of course, given over to the sponsor. Honestly, I enjoyed "Your Computer Minute" when it was a free-standing advice feature... now the ad is the tail that wags the dog.

            I love Peter, but I really don't know if he can sell the "I'm just doing this because it's the right thing to do" angle on this piece. And since it's specifically a rant from a representative of one large company against another large company, "In My Opinion" or not, I'd have hoped the Star-Bulletin would've done a little fact-checking, or at least offered space for a concurrent counterpoint.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

              Originally posted by Quark
              I don't think he adequately pointed out that DSL is dedicated from the DSL modem in your home to the central office. That is where the point of contention is. We all know that from the backbone on, the Internet is all shared. In Road Runner's case it is shared from your home/neighborhood as well.
              On that point, I have to agree he didn't adequtely explain that obvious difference between the two broadband technologies.
              Check out my blog on Kona issues :
              The Kona Blog

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              • #22
                Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                Originally posted by pzarquon
                As far as I can tell, at least based on my own experience, RoadRunner was far more susceptible to very local variations in service quality.
                Firstly, again, my problems with RoadRunner were definitely caused by my immediate area,
                That is at least my experience too, I get much more consistent speeds
                with DSL than Cable Modems.

                Two, DSL being secure "only to the nearest telephone exchange" still makes the "don't share straws" analogy valid, IMHO. Sure, after a certain point, all traffic mingles.
                This argument about which is more secure is all about nothing. In the past yes when Cable Modems were in their infancy there was issues about people
                able to snoop on other computers on their node. But as far as I understand
                that is not possible now. As your connection between the headend and the
                CPE is encrypted.


                Then this is something recent, and definitely post-DSL explosion, because I most definitely reading limitations on the number of systems that could piggyback on my cable modem when I was with Oceanic.
                When I got Road Runner back in June of 2000, I had to sign paperwork stating
                that service was for only one computer only.If you wanted to hookup multiple
                computers you needed to purchase aditional IPs and a hub for additional 9.95 a month. That requirement changed when Earthlink and AOL came aboard
                as competing cable modem ISPs.

                That being said, it would've been nice if the SB had a rebuttal editorial published to Peter Kay's one.
                Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                The Kona Blog

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                • #23
                  Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                  Someone I know pointed out that, 3Mbps is not the max speed available
                  on HT DSL. LavaNet and other local ISPs offers 7.1Mbps/768K DSL service,
                  although I guess you have to live real close to the central office to get it

                  Also another "pro" for cable, there is no distance limitation to get service unlike
                  DSL.
                  Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                  The Kona Blog

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                  • #24
                    Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                    I just found this (hawaiithreads) web site by accident, but I'd like to add my experience to the discussion.

                    I live in Princeville, Kauai. Verizon DSL got here before Cable so I wen't with DSL (about 2 years ago). Performance never exceeded 700Kbps (measured with Verizon's infospeed.verizon.net) Then I had two months-long bouts of inability to connect during evening hours. Mainland Verizon help INSISTED it was not load related - separate straws, etc. - Even though my neighbors generally had no such problems (and much faster DSL speeds too). A VERY helpful local Hawaiian Telcom rep FINALLY admitted it was load related and there was no quick easy fix, though they did eventually eliminate the disconnects and refund two months fees. Even with the newer 3Mbps DSL service, I never saw more than 700Kbps.

                    I switched to Cable two months ago. Speeds vary of course but are CONSISTENTLY over 3Mbps, often in the 4-4.5Mbps range and NEVER lower than 1.5Mbps. No outages or hiccups yet.

                    I have polled about 10 DSL/Cable subscribers on this island (all using the same verizon speed test). On Kauai at least, Cable is "mo better" by a speed factor of 2-6 TIMES.

                    So, I too feel the Hawaiian Telcom adds about separate straws are, at best, misleading.

                    ps - I went with Earthlink Cable rather than direct thru Oceanic Time Warner. Earthlink was $3.00 cheaper per month, had ZERO install fee (vs. if I recall, $50 or $75 from Oceanic). Oceanic reps admitted that the bandwidth will be tha same either way.

                    That's my story.
                    Last edited by Steve Sobel; January 28, 2006, 03:06 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                      How far away from the central office are you ? I live within a mile, mile and half
                      of the CO and I get 77-80% of the rated speed of 3Mbps. To get 3Mbps service
                      you have to live 12,000 feet from the CO (Max 18,000 for slower speeds like
                      1.5Mbps DSL). It sounds like A) live too far from the CO B) There is something
                      wrong with your line to the CO

                      For me I would never go back to cable modem service and death star Oceanic
                      for my Internet connectivity.
                      Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                      The Kona Blog

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                        There's a Verizon building (not just a cell tower shack) less than a half a mile away. Not sure if this is my CO or not. There are other DSL customers in my neighborhood who have much faster service than I ever had. I never had the feeling that my problem was being looked at on a local enough level to solve it. The Hawaiian Tel rep was also surprised and asked me to give them a week or so to look into it before going with Cable. I gave them a couple of weeks but there was no overall improvement in speed. That's life. They lost a customer.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                          Steve,

                          What DSL modem did you have?

                          Is it a Westell or a Fujitsu modem?
                          Last edited by hinokei; January 28, 2006, 10:59 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                            The Fujitsu Modem was used when the telco backbone used frame relay to
                            the DSL cloud. The Westell modem is what is currently used since Verizon/
                            Hawaiian Telcom upgraded the Telco backbone to ATM. In plain english
                            the Fujitsus were used when the max DSL speed was 1.5Mbps.
                            (Note: This is just a note so Steve is familiar with the difference)

                            I'm betting it wasn't a modem issue. I'm figuring now that his line was not
                            provisioned correctly when he was switched from Frame to ATM or there
                            is a problem with his line to the central office. In any case it seems that
                            someone at HT dropped the ball on this one ?

                            A really easy way to see if there was any problems with the line is Westell's
                            you can see the signal statistics and rated speed for the circuit. Like 3Mbps
                            service would say 3364/864 due the fact the circuit is rated higher to compensate for overhead.
                            Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                            The Kona Blog

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                            • #29
                              Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                              It was a Westell WireSpeed Model B90-210015-04 Rev B Ethernet/USB. I still have it (they did not want it back - I asked).

                              Btw, I have no "beef" with Hawaiian tel - I still have their local and long distance service and still have a Verizon Cell phone.

                              I do have a problem though with the amount of time (40-60 hours minimum) I spent on the phone (with Verizon DSL tech support) and on my own trying to debug the connectivity issues before anyone would admit it was their problem, not mine. Come to think of it, that includes the first Hawaiian Tel rep I spoke with.

                              One more minor gripe - I was disappointed that Verizon had no way of maintaining my email addresses at a nominal cost (like AOL and Earthlink do) at least until I could transition to new earthlink addresses. I had to pay for dial-up for three months to keep the addresses open. Then when I finally called to cancel the account (effective at the end of the billing period, I was assured) the addresses disappeared within 15 minutes after I hung up.
                              Last edited by Steve Sobel; January 29, 2006, 02:27 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Hawaiian Telcom DSL

                                My best guess based upon this new information is

                                A) There is an issue with the phone line between
                                you and the Central Office

                                B) Your circuit was not provisioned correctly when
                                you upgraded to 3Mbps service.

                                Its unfortunate you already dropped the service already.
                                As we will never know what the culprit was. There is
                                a way with Westell modems to see the line statistics
                                to see if DSL can even be had on your line and what
                                speed is possible. The software also shows the rated
                                speed for the circuit.

                                I doubt it was anything to do with the bandwith Verizon/HT
                                has to the net after the central office.I figure it is was
                                some localized issue, especially if your neighbors were
                                not experiencing problems.
                                Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                                The Kona Blog

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