What makes you local?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: What makes you local?

Someone told me that if the "w" is in the middle of the word then it's a "v" sound and if the W is upfront then it's "w" as in your example.

So how would you pronounce Wahiawa? Now we would use the "v" in Waika
or Wahine but what about Waialae?

Ah to me it's Vat Ewa's

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: What makes you local?

The only written guide I can find is Pukui, Elbert, & Mo'okini, who say:

After i and e, usually like v
After u and o, usually like w
Initially and after a, like v or w

Not much help, eh? All those usuallys. I just go by what sounds right, based on years of hearing the words and the language. Sometimes it's w and sometimes it's v.

In Tahitian, the v sound is the more common one. For example, they say vahine instead of wahine ("woman") and vaka instead of wa'a ("canoe"). But in Maori, it's usually w: wahine and whaka. So it's not too weird that Hawaiian might use one or the other.

And as for pronouncing Hawai'i as Ha-vai-i, sure, I guess you could. Depending on what you're saying, sometimes it sounds better with the w and sometimes it sounds better with the v. I usually pronounce it Ha-wai-i. Lots of local people these days are dropping the first i, so they're pronouncing it more like Ha-wa-i. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

[kamlost]

Re: What makes you local?

I've heard the Ha-wa-i version.. It's just wrong. Thus begins the murder of another "language" if I may call it that.

[hanai]

Re: What makes you local?

The only written guide I can find is Pukui, Elbert, & Mo'okini, who say:

Not much help, eh? All those usuallys. I just go by what sounds right, based on years of hearing the words and the language. Sometimes it's w and sometimes it's v.

In Tahitian, the v sound is the more common one. For example, they say vahine instead of wahine ("woman") and vaka instead of wa'a ("canoe"). But in Maori, it's usually w: wahine and whaka. So it's not too weird that Hawaiian might use one or the other.

And as for pronouncing Hawai'i as Ha-vai-i, sure, I guess you could. Depending on what you're saying, sometimes it sounds better with the w and sometimes it sounds better with the v. I usually pronounce it Ha-wai-i. Lots of local people these days are dropping the first i, so they're pronouncing it more like Ha-wa-i. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

Woah seems I started some controversy here

I think, its not that all W is V and vice versa, sometimes its okay...Wahiawa etc would sound funny with a V hehe..

In maori, Wh sometimes = F, in placenames like Whangarei Whangamata etc, . I remember reading somewhere recently (but cant find the damn link!!! doh) that Hawaiian and Maori were almost identifcal before the missionaries came, but the missionaries couldn't tell the difference between the L and R sound and so now they're all L's (aloha vs aroha, honoruru vs honolulu, etc)

Does anyone recall seeing that link?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: What makes you local?

Controversy? Nahhh. We just talking story!

It's a good question whether the pronunciation we consider correct today has been altered by the transcription of oral Hawaiian into Roman letters. It's possible that many Hawaiian consonants, like the r/l, t/k, and b/p sounds, may have actually been somewhere in between, and writing them down may have influenced their pronunciation by us non-native speakers.

[Linkmeister]

Re: What makes you local?

I wonder if you can take the titles from the Weber drawings as a hint. Remember that Weber was trying to write words from Hawaiian phonetically, and if you look at his drawings you see "Ohwyhee," which implies a "W" sound rather than a "V" sound.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: What makes you local?

Maybe. But also remember that Cook and his crew had already been to Tahiti, and their impression of the Hawaiian language may have been colored by their previous exposure to Tahitian.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: What makes you local?

I wonder if you can take the titles from the Weber drawings as a hint. Remember that Weber was trying to write words from Hawaiian phonetically, and if you look at his drawings you see "Ohwyhee," which implies a "W" sound rather than a "V" sound.

Here's an interesting fact surrounding the spelling of Ohwyhee. About 25-years ago while I was stationed in Mtn. Home AFB, Idaho, I had the chance to hike up the many trails in the Owahee Mountain range there.

One park ranger told me that mountain got it's name from two explorers who pointed at the mountains and asked their indian guides what the name was. One of the explorers indicated they were pointing in the direction of Hawaii. The indians repeated Hawaii in their native dialect to the explorers and it came out Owahee, so the name stuck.

When I went hiking up that mountain range, I noticed at just under the 10,000 foot level there were these plants that looked very much like our fabled Silverswords but somwhat different color blossom.

Two-decades later upon visiting the Onezuka Memorial at the 10,000 foot level of Mauna Kea, I saw the same plants I saw in Idaho on the Owahee Mountain range. I asked the curator about these plants and how much they looked like those on Haleakala. He indicated they were a close cousin and the only other place this variation of the Silversword was found in the Northwestern part of the United States.

I mentioned the story about the Owahee Mountains in Idaho and the plants found there and he told me the plants on Mauna Kea were brought over by some western explorers and he speculates that they may have been those two who inadvertantly named that Indian mountain range after Hawaii. It's quite possible the name Hawaii and the plants linked the two regions together.

Ironically if you follow the indian folklore and language up in Idaho, you'll find similarities between Hawaiian mythology and Indian folklore.

[Miulang]

Re: What makes you local?

We have a little town here in the southern part of WA (close to Mt. St. Helens and the WA-OR border) called Kalama that was named after a John Kalama, a kanaka who ended up here working in the mines. He married a native american woman and every year they have a big potlatch that brings together the Hawaiian and Native American ohana.

Amazing how the non-Hawaiians can mangle that name, though! ("Kah-lay-ma" is one of the best manglings...for the longest time, I never knew that the town's name was really Hawaiian!)

Miulang

[Tutulady]

Re: What makes you local?

Okay now you brought up the subject of using the "V" or "W" sound when pronouncing words in Hawaiian.

Apparently there word "Hawaiian" is not in the Hawaiian vocabulary so it's proper to say it with a "W" sound. But there is the word "Hawaii" in the Hawaiian language so "Hawaii" should be pronounced with the "V" sound.
Okay I know there are a few Hawaiian scholars here, what's the official take on W vs V in the Hawaiian language?

Either pronounciation is correct. Both sounds are interchangable in most words of 'olelo Hawai'i. At least that's how I learned in from my tutus.

[Mocha]

Re: What makes you local?

Mahalo to all for the refresher course on pronunciation. We're never too old to learn and at my age I have to be constantly reminded...so keep it up

[KaipuaGurl]

Re: What makes you local?

IMHO, what makes you local, is the spirit of Aloha, respect and care for the Aina and the people who live here, the childeren of mother Hawaii.

[pzarquon]

Re: What makes you local?

The latest issue of Hawaii Business Magazine features a cover feature titled, "Local Style for Lo-Los." It's more about doing business in Hawaii than everyday life. The principles are:

• No talk stink.
• Dress the part.
• Build relationships, then do deals.
• Come hungry.
• Don't confuse slow with incompetent.
• Give back.
• Check your ego at the airport.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: What makes you local?

IMHO, what makes you local, is the spirit of Aloha, respect and care for the Aina and the people who live here, the childeren of mother Hawaii.

Nah! Being local is:

1) I no kea about voting, das for dakine haoles
2) Buy my fish? Braddah I catch em!
3) Corona's? Gimme a break lolo, pass me one Mickey's
4) Shoot brah, we can go Ala Wai for 5:30 tee time, I get good connections
5) Zippy's get da bes broasted chicken plate
6) Ox Tail? Kam Bowl
7) Try wait! My Scott slippahs still wet from da beach, we go church tomorrow

8) Read? No braddah pass da papah cuz I like smash da kakaroach!
9) Yeah I like go see UH Wahine Volleyball, check out the shorts.
10) Eh Honey! No foget the Long's coupon book!
11) Sorry I no can buy your fundraiser, my boy selling chili tickets and I get plenty Entertainment books already.
12) You grad Roosevelt? Eh my girlfriend wen grad odea too!
13) Pagoda's for da reunion...again!
14) Oh no tanks I had enough salad I stay full, eh wait das spam musubi I smell?

15) I went Checkers and Pogo keiki time too!
16) Jus wait bruddah I goin make one phone call and you history!
17) Ride da bus? You kiddin?
18) Eh Bumpy...hows da homestead?
19) Oh wow get one Grand National for sale in da classifieds!
20) Junior...you like sign up for dakine little league dis year?
21) Saturday night...we goin Campbells for the Sand Drags good fun man
22) After I wen grad from Kam school I stay fireman now cuz I no pass da police test.

23) Cheap! What you tink me Kaiser?
24) Ho man da Kam swap meet was crowded today!
25) No I nevah went go to Perry and Price show.
26) Eddie went go, eh braddah, res in peace my man.

Now das local!

[drumorgan]

Re: What makes you local?

That was great. I almost got them all. I wen go Checkers and Pogo to when I stay keiki. I wen grab the pennies from inside tha jar.

How about this one.
You know you're local when the nerds quote Rap Reiplinger instead of Monty Python.