Thoughts on plagiarism?

[sin]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

Sorry to say, Tim Ryan should've been fired.

Entertainment reporters the same responsibility as news reporters to not lift things directly or even use sentences in the same structure from a published source.

I too have thought that Tim has done great work over the years, but this plagiarism is often an indication of burnout or depression.

I am not here to say bad things about Tim. I am more in tune with Ian Lind's thoughts in that I am saddened.

I have to agree with Mr. Dodger here...sadness and disappointment is all I feel.

Tim does great work at the Bulletin and keeps track of all the good and entertaining stuff that most people would rather read than the gas cap and other legislative headlines that make the front page. He's got sources in the right place and is a good writer.

To plagerize however...as a journalist...I'd say that might require termination. Besides, Tim writes his own column...why couldn't he say, "according to Wikipedia" or "according to the Sacramento Bee"...swallow your pride and attribute man!

I'll say it again...sad sad sad sad...especially if they let Tim go and he writes for someone else like the Tiser...at this point however the Bulletin might not have any choice, because it would be a greater tragedy to let this go unpunished. Suspension is not enough.

[LikaNui]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

I agree with Dodger and Sin and others. It's a sad deal, but plagiarizing calls for severe penalties, especially since it happened multiple times. I wish him the best in his future endeavors, but he's gotta go.

[FreaknHaole]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

After looking at the "evidence," what is annoying about this particular case is that the sentences cut-n-pasted were so inconsequential. Mostly lists of facts, no creative writing at all. It's not like Ryan stole someone's term paper, it's the sort of dogeared crap churned out by press agents -- who encourage journalists to use it.
This probably says more about the Star-Bulletin's overworked and underfunded staffing than it does about Ryan's ethics. Looks like he was cutting corners to help fill up the paper.
But wrong is wrong, ain't it? Will he get time off for good behavior or should they just ship him off to the leper colony right now? Can he walk down the street without former friends avoiding him? Do mothers shield the eyes of their children when Ryan is in the neighborhood?
Maybe the Advertiser will take him if he gives the Bulletin the slip. The Advertiser still has a child-porno afficiendo on the payroll, even though he's in jail.

[kimo55]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

"VerbaTim" Ryan will stay with us in our guest house, if he wants.
(awww, sorry Tim. couldn't resist!)

[RJC]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

Too bad. It's one of those things, kind of like when a politician is overheard making an off-color joke: everyone knows this stuff is happening, if not who's doing it, but it's still wrong. and when you get caught, you get caught. I hate to see good people go down, but at the same time, I get an even worse feeling when there are no apparent consequences at all (c.f. the Advertiser/ilind.net affair.)

For someone like Tim Ryan, you'd like to hope there's an intermediate punishment. Is this a capital offense? I'm on the fence as to whether it should be, but it almost certainly will be.

[wikiwiki]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

Ryan could be the nicest guy on the planet, but is that an excuse? I knew an extremely nice guy in Tokyo who was caught plagiarizing movie reviews from the Hong Kong paper and other sources. . . He was fired and owned up to his mistakes. . . Everyone makes mistakes in the business, that's inevitable, but this smacks of an intentional mistake. . . Too many instances for it to be a coincidence. . . At a time when the media is constantly under fire for credibility issues, this is just another sad black eye on the profession. . .

As a sidebar, was Ryan feeling pressure to produce at an understaffed paper?

[FreaknHaole]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

For someone like Tim Ryan, you'd like to hope there's an intermediate punishment. Is this a capital offense? I'm on the fence as to whether it should be, but it almost certainly will be.

I heard he's already received one of the harshest (but non-firing) punishments ever meted out at the newspaper. Plus, online knuckleheads are kicking him while he's down.

[MadAzza]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

Plus, online knuckleheads are kicking him while he's down.

Hmm, I guess The Iron Lady must be off today, if little Ricky's daring to go online during work hours.

[wikiwiki]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

keeping with the tv news of reporting "according to sources" ryan has been fired.

p.s. madazza, do not know rick daysog. . . is there a subplot happening here?

[FreaknHaole]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

Ricky/Wikiwiki is Rick Daysog? The former Star-Bulletin reporter who was escorted from the newsroom when he tried to filch work product?
Aha, the plot sickens.

[wikiwiki]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

Sorry. . . madazza obviously has some issues. . . looking forward to the salacicous details??

[MadAzza]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

Sorry. . . madazza obviously has some issues. . . looking forward to the salacicous details??

Issues of what? Playboy? Glamour? Honolulu magazine? Yes, it's true, I have those issues. Didn't realize it was "obvious," though. Clever boy! No need to apologize.

[wikiwiki]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

ok, back to the issue of plagiarism. . . should ryan be fired? should he not? should a copy editor be held responsible? food for thought. . .

[kimo55]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

nope. don't wanna think about it anymore. beating a dead horse, as it were.

next!

[lavagal]

Re: Thoughts on plagiarism?

ok, back to the issue of plagiarism. . . should ryan be fired? should he not? should a copy editor be held responsible? food for thought. . .

The best-read copy editors are inching toward retirement. For that matter, headlines are probably headed toward the crapper as well.

Frankly, I don't think younger copy editors are as dilligent. I think it's a huge point of pride to detect a problem with a story, or even being sure that it's or its, they're and their, ware and wear; sight, site and cite are all being used correctly. But then again, maybe our younger copy editors are just different simply because of the times: exposed to the Internet, familiar with digging up facts and using search engines to their advantage... Still it drives me crazy to see which where it should say that and vice versa...

Back to the questions: Tim has been fired. It's reasonable for copy editors to trust the writer to write a factual, true or original story. But maybe Tim knew his editors, and not just copy editors, weren't paying attention and therefore he took the short cuts. It's quite certain that the features editors read his work, too, before it went to print. Should the whole line of staff involved go down in flames? Nope. But they better take the lesson to heart.